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Author Topic:   Trailering Montauk
BC Whaler posted 06-01-2002 03:57 PM ET (US)   Profile for BC Whaler   Send Email to BC Whaler  
I read some other threads on this topic, the information is really useful. I am looking at the purchase of 16/17 BW, probably Montauk with 50-70 HP. The total trailer wait for this I would estimate around 2000 lb., and I'm wondering about the prospects of trailering this with a little Mazda B2200 2WD pickup, (5sp. 4 cyl.) The tow capacity is listed as 3000 lb. by Mazda, but I'm a little sketchy about how the clutch will hold up on the launch ramp. Anyone with wisdom to share on similar borderline towing scenarios? Am I nuts to think this is do-able?
Tom W Clark posted 06-01-2002 05:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
BC Whaler,

Your B2200 will be more than adequate. I towed my Montauk with a Toyota (4 cylinder, 22R engine 100hp) with a five speed manual. No problem at all. I even towed my 18' Outrage with it couple of times, though not on the highway.

A Montauk tows very easily. Just about anything will do.

JBCornwell posted 06-01-2002 05:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Howdy, BC Whaler.

Well, this time I have to disagree with Tom.
I also towed a 16 (Sakonnet) with a 22R SR-5 Toyota and with a 24R SR-5. Ruined both trucks.

While both trucks towed adequately on flat terrain at secondary road speeds, neither would do a straight-ahead emergency stop from over 35mph and neither would pull the boat up a steep, wet ramp without smoking the clutch and getting extra weight into the bed.

I even tried shifting the trailer undercarriage to get a full 300# on the tongue. That made it worse, not better.

If you have 4WD you can do the ramp thing in low range, but you still would be a menace on interstates or rural highways.

For safe towing of a Montauk on a trailer without brakes, you need a vehicle rated for 5000# with brakes.

I currently tow a Montauk and an OR-18 (not at the same time) with a ML320. It has a 215hp V6, AWD, 5000lb tow rating, (with brakes). The Montauk weighs about 2000, the Outrage about 2800.

I don't think I have enough tow vehicle for comfortably towing the Outrage on long trips and am going to sell it, at least partly because I wont part with my ML.

Get a bigger truck!

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

Dick E posted 06-01-2002 07:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick E  Send Email to Dick E     
I towed my Montauk to the NC.coast with 4 cyl Volvo SW Automatic. For 2 summers,it got hot going up inclines(These were not mountains or even big hills).

Yes you can,but you are really are harming your engine.

I bought Jeep Grand Cherokee with a V8. You do not know it is even there. I also towed with a 4.0 liter 6 cyl and had no problems.

I opinion get an 6 cyl for towing a montauk.
It safer and will last longer.

gunnelgrabber posted 06-01-2002 08:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for gunnelgrabber  Send Email to gunnelgrabber     
to; bc whaler
a 4 cyl. truck will do just fine.
it's trailerability is one of the many reasons a 16' bw is such a practical and economical boat to own and operate. ....lm
whalernut posted 06-01-2002 11:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Here is another thing to consider, the pre-Smirk hulls were much lighter than the Smirk hulls, about 3-400 lbs, so that might help you decide also, my 73` `16 Currituck is very light, and tows very easily with my 93 Dakota 4 wheel drive and the V8, a 6 cylinder would be more than adequate. Jack.
JBCornwell posted 06-02-2002 01:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Don't know where you get your info, Whalernut. My Sakonnet was 950lb. My Montauk is 950lb. Just what is it that is several hundred pounds lighter?

Gunnelgrabber. How many miles have you towed a 16/17 Whaler with a pipsqueak rice burner? How many steep, wet ramps? I destroyed two Toyotas because of smart alec know-it-alls like you who swore it was no problem.

Dang! Nothing annoys a know it all as much as another know it all who "knows" a different all. It's like being called a liar.

BC Whaler posted 06-02-2002 02:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for BC Whaler  Send Email to BC Whaler     
Hey, thanks everyone for the replies. Sounds like this can be done, but I think it might be best to stick to local tows and avoid some of the steeper launch sites until I get a bigger truck. I wonder if there is an advantage to weighting the back axle? I'm thinking this would help for traction on slippery ramps, but also put more load on the clutch and engine.

thanks, BB

whalernut posted 06-02-2002 04:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
JB, I believe the pre-smirk bare hull weighed in at 500lbs, and the smirk hull is about 850-950lbs, bare hull. Now factor in all of that wood in you`re Sakkonet and that would bring that weight up to the 950lbs. as you describe, I dought that my `16 Currituck weighs as much as you`re Sakkonet. I was only going on bare hull weights. I believe a Montauk Smirk hull with engine and everything in it has to be in the 1500-1800 lbs. class?? Jack.
JBCornwell posted 06-02-2002 08:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Howdy, Whalernut.

Yep, the pre-smirk bare hull weighed 500#. I don't think that the smirk bare hull could weigh much more, certainly not 300-400#, or the Montauk would weigh about 1100, rather than 950.

I have gone through my incomplete collection of brochures and find that the earlier Montauks weighed 900# and the later ones 950. That suggests to me that a bare smirk hull couldn't weigh over 650#.

Oh, well. I don't think it really matters enough to fuss about.

I just don't want BC Whaler to think he has an adequate tow vehicle in a B2200 Masda.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

JBCornwell posted 06-02-2002 08:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Howdy, Whalernut.

Yep, the pre-smirk bare hull weighed 500#. I don't think that the smirk bare hull could weigh much more, certainly not 300-400#, or the Montauk would weigh about 1100, rather than 950.

I have gone through my incomplete collection of brochures and find that the earlier Montauks weighed 900# and the later ones 950. That suggests to me that a bare smirk hull couldn't weigh over 650#.

Oh, well. I don't think it really matters enough to fuss about.

I just don't want BC Whaler to think he has an adequate tow vehicle in a B2200 Masda.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

jimh posted 06-02-2002 08:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Changed topic; was "towing Montauk". I think of "towing" as happening at sea; "trailering" happens on the highway.--jimh]
whalernut posted 06-02-2002 09:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Your right JB, I belive you should always use a little more vehicle to tow with than you really need, if just for not having to worry about overheating or blowing something out or strugling on inclines or ramps. Jack.
kamml posted 06-02-2002 10:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for kamml  Send Email to kamml     
BC Whaler: I towed my 77 Montauk Merc 50 with a 96 Tacoma 4cy 5sp 140hp for one summer. In the relatively flat midlands and lowlands of SC it was barely adequate. Everytime I would put it in cruise control it would lose speed. If I left it in 4th gear it was a little better, but not by much. Driving 150 miles to ocean my Tacoma was just running its heart out and on the way back it was no fun shifting all the time. I traded the Toyota for a B3000 automatic and I couldn't be happier. The automatic is much easier to climb ramps with and when in cruise it holds the speed with little difficulty. Despite only have 9 hp more the 6 cylinder has more torque at lower revs. But on the other hand, give the B2500 a chance, you can always trade up if it doesn't serve your purpose. Ken
gunnelgrabber posted 06-02-2002 01:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for gunnelgrabber  Send Email to gunnelgrabber     
jbcornwell,
i certainly meant you no offense. also i admit to being a little confused as to what you're saying etc...sounds bad enough though.
and as prior stated...my truck does the job for me( my opinion here) just fine! quite adequately from my standpoint and so on....
have a good summer....lm


JBCornwell posted 06-02-2002 07:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Hey, G-Grabber.

No personal offense taken or intended.

When I explain in detail personal (and expensive) experience supporting my advice it is offensive to be summarily contradicted without supporting testimony.

I doubt that you trailered over hill and dale (much less mountains)and steep ramps with your unidentified 4 cyl pickup.

Further, I doubt that you tried to avoid nailing a whitetail doe in the ten ring while going sideways at only 50 mph. Be thankful it wasn't a Homo Sapien doe.

If you disagree, the courteous thing to do is say so, not to simply contradict.

Have a nice summer.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

EddieS posted 06-03-2002 12:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for EddieS  Send Email to EddieS     
Relax guys. We all have different opinions and experiences about towing our boats with various vehicles. JB may have experienced pulling his boat out of very steep ramps and over some steep difficult grades where as Gunnel Grabber may have had a different set of circumstances to deal with. I have pulled a 17' Whaler with a 1993 Toyota 5sp 4cyl. My truck and perhaps all stock 93 Toyota's came with 4.10 rear ends and had 3500 lbs tow capacity. It is not the ideal tow vehicle by any stretch, when I towed I did not pull the boat in 5th. The ramps that I use here in Northern CA are fairly steep. I could do it with the Toyota but not easily. It is definetly a strain on the vehicles clutch. You need to remember that when you pull the boat from the water you not only will have the 2000 lbs of trailer to pull up the ramp but also have to overcome the water resistance as you pull the trailer and boat from the water.

If it were me I would probably give it a try. I currently tow my Whaler with a 2000 F150 Ext Cab. I hardly know it is back there, but the gas mileage is not what I had with my little Toyota. A full size truck is the best tow vehicle if you can deal with the gas mileage.

Ed

mudpuppy posted 06-03-2002 02:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for mudpuppy  Send Email to mudpuppy     
I had a B2200 and a B2000. They were both great vehicles for the proce, which wasn't much. Neither one had the juice to tow--in fact I got rid of the 2200 because it couldn't deal with Kentucky and West Virginia hills with three whitewater kayaks on the roof and a weekend's worth of camping gear in the back. I tow my 15' Whaler with a 4WD Chevy 1500, nothing special, and I don't ever notice it. I think you'll prematurely wear out an otherwise acceptable vehicle.
Don Fisher posted 06-03-2002 09:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for Don Fisher  Send Email to Don Fisher     
If you decide to tow with the Mazda, stay away from steep grades. Also consider that the radiators on those smaller engines are also small and may not last long under heavy loads and hot weather. I, too, have a Grand Cherokee with the V8 and don't even know the boat is behind me.
Hoop posted 06-03-2002 01:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Hoop  Send Email to Hoop     
I towed a Dauntless 15 behind a 4 cylinder Toyota manual shift truck ... I burned the clutch, though not so bad that it required immediate replacement. My biggest frustration was slippery launch ramps during large tidal swings ... One time I popped the clutch on a slippery ramp to pull the boat out, and the truck fish tailed left and right before getting some traction. Not knowing whether I was going up the ramp or back down into the water was scarry. I now pull my Montauk with a Ford Ranger 6 cylinder automatic transmission with limited slip differential, which works great.

Hoop
San Jose, CA

anniegalloway posted 06-03-2002 02:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for anniegalloway  Send Email to anniegalloway     
OK, you guys have me worried now. We have not put a hitch on either vehicle yet for our new Montauk (delivery in July).

We have a 1998 Nissan Frontier XE, 4 cyl, 5 speed. The manual lists its maximum towing weight as 3500 and this was the vehicle we were thinking of putting the hitch on.

We also have 1999 Jeep Cherokee Sport, 4X4, 4.0L, 5 speed. The manual is really weird on this. For Class 1 Hitch, shows max weight of 2,000 for 4.0L all transmission types. It then shows a Class III hitch for max of 5,000, but shows tranmission as automatic transmission with cooler. Nothing for the 5 speed. Does this mean the 5 speed can only pull 2000 lbs?

Our boat dealer said we would not have any problem with using the Nissan (and I think it would be cheaper for the hitch as well as maintenance).

Thoughts?

Annie...totally confused

anniegalloway posted 06-03-2002 02:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for anniegalloway  Send Email to anniegalloway     
Ooops....forgot to say that the Jeep is a 6 cyl. Why would a 4 cyl be rated for 3500 but a 6 cyl only 2000?

Annie...still confused

jimh posted 06-03-2002 02:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Let me throw my two cents in.

There's trailering, then there is TRAILERING.

I used to pull my little 15-Sport around with my V-8 Rear Wheel drive Crown Vic rated at 5000#. The total trailer load is probably around 1350#. So I am way under ratings, right?

Fortunately, I live in Michigan, where we consider a change in elevation of more than about 15-feet to be "hills."

One summer I am hauling the boat back from up north. The temps are in the 90's. We've got the AC going full blast. We're heading back on M-131 south from Traverse City, where the road is two lane and climbs up and down a stretch of large hills for about 30 miles.

The engine temp starts climbing. I can hear the engine pinging (predetonation). Soon we are downshifting for the hills. We turn the AC off to help. The CHECK ENGINE light is on.

Fortunately these hills are little. It's uphill for a mile or less, then back downhill. After an hour or so we get back on the usual flat ground of central Michigan. We get the AC back on. The CHECK ENGINE light goes off. I stop and get a tank of PREMIUM gas to help with the pinging.

After that, I had a big tune-up on the engine. I got new ECU computer, new Mass Air Sensor, factory refit of EGR valves, special throttle body cleaning, etc. Cost about $800.

The morale of my story: when you are towing you are increasing the load on your car by a large factor. You better have your car in tip-top shape. You will strain everything, engine, transmission, radiator, brakes.

If you are lucky and you only trailer a few miles on level terrain in moderate temperatures, you are not at as much risk.

Haul uphill (or downhill) for along stretch and a blistering hot day and you will find out what your tow vehicle is made of.

Arch Autenreith posted 06-03-2002 11:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Arch Autenreith  Send Email to Arch Autenreith     
I agree. There are so many variables in towing. Distance, terrain (VWA is a killer! I-77 coming up on Rocky Gap gets me down to about 25 mph), specific launch ramps, tow vehicle weight, your personal driving methods and practices, and does the trailer have brakes. My old Grand Marquis (#3800 pounds, 140bhp. So woefully underpowered it can't get out of it's own way) pulls just fine, albeit slow, in every extreme I can think of and never overheats. Severe heat, hills, overloaded, long distances, etc, etc. I believe just driving it adult-like is a big factor. I don't drive fast and start and stop at very, very leisurely rates. Even though I ALWAYS have to downshift on any grade I just recognize it won't pull like better 'tow' vehicles and therefore think and drive accordingly.

I'm the first to say that I've never done it but my impression is, all things being equal, that a vehicle lighter than about 3300# or so could become problemsome in different situations mostly dealing with highway-speed stopping and avoidance maneuvers and especially if you donít have brakes on your trailer. HP with many (NOT ALL) 4 cylinders could be an issue with some but it would not be with me usually.

Just my thoughts.

andygere posted 06-04-2002 01:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Annie,
I'd choose the Cherokee over the pickup. 4 wheel drive will help on steep/wet ramps, and the 4.0 L six has plenty of power. The 4 cyl. will have to work a lot harder. The 5 speed is strong enough to handle a Montauk, but it will take a few miles off of your clutch. I tow my Montauk with a Wrangler/4.0L/5 speed and it works fine.
-Andy
prj posted 06-04-2002 01:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for prj  Send Email to prj     
i'll be the next to recommend against using the mazda 4 cyl. to tow a montauk. i HAVE on a single occasion towed a 15' striper with the 22R (2.4L 4cyl.) in the toy pickup and did not like the results. clutch burner on ramps with any appreciable grade, rear suspension not happy about 200# tongue load, extreme wear on the truck shortening its otherwise incredibly long life.

frankly, my toy 4 runr, 5 speed, 3L V6 doesnt even care for the additional load of boat, gear and 2 men. didnt care for it so much on memorial weekend that one cylinder decided to just retire on me. based upon the fact that a light 6 doesnt like the load, 5 ill-timed cylinders didnt get any better.

im with the seemingly irratible JB on this one, expensive lesson to learn.

prj posted 06-04-2002 01:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for prj  Send Email to prj     
i'll be the next to recommend against using the mazda 4 cyl. to tow a montauk. i HAVE on a single occasion towed a 15' striper with the 22R (2.4L 4cyl.) in the toy pickup and did not like the results. clutch burner on ramps with any appreciable grade, rear suspension not happy about 200# tongue load, extreme wear on the truck shortening its otherwise incredibly long life.

frankly, my toy 4 runr, 5 speed, 3L V6 doesnt even care for the additional load of boat, gear and 2 men. didnt care for it so much on memorial weekend that one cylinder decided to just retire on me. based upon the fact that a light 6 doesnt like the load, 5 ill-timed cylinders didnt get any better.

im with the seemingly irratible JB on this one, expensive lesson to learn.

Salmon Tub posted 06-04-2002 08:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Salmon Tub  Send Email to Salmon Tub     
I tow my Montaul with a 1998 Nissan Frontier with the 4-cyl at 140(+/-) hp. Now as soon as I hitch the boat up I drive in ol' granny mode, slow acceleration, easy turns, keep a long distance between myself and the car infront of me. Now, I also tow early in the morning when few others are out. I must say that I use this because I have no other choice, but, eventually I will get a larger truck to do the hauling. I can tell you first hand that towing with such a vehicle is dangerous. It is this way because even though I am careful, many feel that I have ruined their accent up a hill so much that they need to cut me off, other times, driving in the slow lane, mergeing traffic expects me to miraculously accelerate and let the in. Luckily, most of the time, I trailer my boat about 100 yards, from the storage lot to the ramp.
beaufort posted 06-05-2002 01:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for beaufort  Send Email to beaufort     
Locally, I use my 66 F-100 6 cyl. 3-on-the-tree. Except for having to put a chock behing the wheels while in stopped on the ramp(!) it works great.

But I'll be towing the Montauk 350 miles from the SC Lowcountry to the Blue Ridge Mts. and will use my 95 BMW 5 series Touring. I've procured a class 2 hitch from a friend in Germany so will be towing in comfort! <Odd, that no class 2 hitch is offered for these cars in the U.S. but in Europe, the 5 and 7 series BMWs are the EuroSUV of choice!!>

triblet posted 06-06-2002 12:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Beaufort, you best weigh your boat and
trailer. Class 2 hitches are good for 1500
or 2000 pounds. I figure my Montauk weighs
a bit of 2000 pounds, boat, motor, trailer,
gas, etc.

Chuck

beaufort posted 06-06-2002 06:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for beaufort  Send Email to beaufort     
Maybe it's a class 3?

Bosal has the hitch rated at 1900 kgs. That's 4180 lbs. When the Whaler is lowered on the ball, the car doesn't dip a 1/4 inch!

I'm amazed at how well it handles the load.

Anyone have any nice alloy wheels for my trailer?!

cs

anniegalloway posted 06-07-2002 09:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for anniegalloway  Send Email to anniegalloway     
Thanks, Andy.

We've decided to use the 6 cyl. 4.0L, 5 speed Jeep Sport to tow the Montauk. I don't see us trailering the boat more than 30 miles since we are on the Northern Neck and the closest launch is about 5 miles. There is one hill between us and that ramp.

From what I have been able to read, the reason the automatic is rated higher is because of the cooler. Don't *think* the 5 speed should overheat pulling the Montauk for 30 minutes or so.

Now...since the weight will be either right at or just over the 2000 lb mark...should we go for a Class III hitch? Is it better for overkill on the hitch (Class III) than at the mark for a Class I (2" ball)?

Thanks,
Annie...learning more and more and finding out how very much more there is to learn

Arch Autenreith posted 06-07-2002 09:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for Arch Autenreith  Send Email to Arch Autenreith     
I think that unless there is a 'significant' price difference go with the class 111. Mostly because you can use other accessories like a bike carrier, luggage carrier, etc., and such if you want that are designed for the 2" square receiver. Also you can borrow or use others' in a pinch as it is more common.
GuyNole posted 06-07-2002 03:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for GuyNole  Send Email to GuyNole     
I am turning in my leased 2000 Ford Expedition with the big V8 and tow pacakge. You do not know my 17 Montauk is back there.

I am think about replacing with a Honda Odyssey mini van with a V6 rated at 3500lbs. Accouding to Consumer Reports "Currently our top-rated minivan, the Odyssey has a powerful, quiet 3.5-liter V6 and a smooth, responsive five-speed automatic transmission"

Most trips are not too far in central florida. Once year to the North GA mountians.

I would greatly appreciate you guys more experienced opinions.

Taylor posted 06-07-2002 03:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Taylor  Send Email to Taylor     
From the drawtite website:

Class I - 2000# max
Class II - 3500# max
Class III 3500# - 5000# max

I happen to have a class I on my car, because like beaufort, I could not find a class II for my BMW. DId not look in Europe. Now with a Montauk, class I is right at the limit, so its probably not a great idea. My trailer has a 2400 GVW, although I've seen Montauks on 2000 GVW trailers. Class II receiver would be the way to go for regular Montauk towing. My class I hitch makes me tense.

Regarding 22R / 24R Toyotas. I had a couple of those, and while there were great trunks, with a load, the clutch sucked. Not big enough.

Regarding tow vehicle - often colored by what you happen to own already. I have 2900 lbs of rip snorting, 190 odd horsepower into a limit slip differential with 4 wheel disk ABS and Bilsteins. Is that ideal? Nope. But it works. Forget fifth gear, though.

So, for borderline towing senarios like my old Beemer and BC Whalers B2200... be careful, and factor towing into your next vehicle purchase.

andygere posted 06-07-2002 06:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Annie,
I'd go for the class III. It probably won't cost much more, and you can remove the hitch and ball from the receiver when you are not towing (fewer barked shins!). It's not overkill, just better.
Novice Dave posted 06-08-2002 09:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Novice Dave    
GuyNole
I tow a new Montauk (400+ lbs. more than the old Montauk) with a 2001 Odyssey with the class II towing package from Honda. You know the Montauk is back there but it can handle the California mountains at highway speeds.

Front wheel drive vehicles can lose traction on steep, slippery ramps. The Odyssey has plenty of power and a traction control system to minimize wheel slip. Works well.

You should have little trouble pulling the Montauk in Florida and up the Georgia mountains. Now getting a good deal on an Odyssey is not so easy.

-Dave

Ed Z posted 06-08-2002 11:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Z  Send Email to Ed Z     
What happens to the tow vehicle is directly related to the guy behind the wheel... Many years of towwing a 69 Nauset with a 1984 Toyota 22R yielded the truck body rusting out before any mechanical problems were encountered... This setup was used even through the mountains of PA (route 81) and did require some third gear high rev climbs, but maintained 55 MPH all the way... The truck was bought new in 84 and driven until 1993 (sold it) with the original clutch working just fine... Besure to follow the 10% or greater trailer tongue weight rule though... Possibly consider adding brakes to the trailer for that emergency stopping...
rubadub555 posted 10-29-2003 08:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for rubadub555  Send Email to rubadub555     
My 1980 Montauk and Suzuki 85 travel on a new Continental trailer, behind our Acura MDX. Fine combo, so far so good.
I'm tired, however, of having to swipe my wife's MDX to get wet. I drive a 1999 BMW 328is, five speed, paid for.
I only tow two miles to the ramp. There's another ramp that's ten miles one way. No highway miles, low speed.
If tongue weight-induced squatting is not a problem with my trailer trim, can/should I try it?
The BMW people are noncommittal.
I like this car alot, and am reluctant to take on a second traditional tow vehicle.
Does anyone actually use a car like mine to tow a Montauk?
thanks in advance good people
Scott

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