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Author Topic:   Opinions: 15' Classic hull power
PMUCCIOLO posted 06-18-2002 01:01 PM ET (US)   Profile for PMUCCIOLO  
I'm considering adding a 15' Classic Whaler to my fleet (GLS or Super Sport interior). My family has had two of these: a 1994 GLS powered by a 70HP Evinrude which was very fast, and a 1997 Standard with a 40HP Johnson which was OK due to it's lighter weight. I'm open to all opinions, so let's have them!
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 06-18-2002 01:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
I have a slightly used 115hp jetdrive i will sell you
PMUCCIOLO posted 06-18-2002 01:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
BOB KEMMLER JR

I was going to ask if your jet drive were available, but you beat me to it with your generous offer! I'm surprised that you'd part with that technological marvel--it would make a beautiful addition to a museum on the set of "Sanford and Son."

I think I'll pass...I hope you understand.

Paul

BOB KEMMLER JR posted 06-18-2002 01:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
Even Sanford and son has thier standards.
Bigshot posted 06-18-2002 02:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Merc or Yamaha 60hp 4 stroke.....no ifs, ands, or buts:)
lhg posted 06-18-2002 02:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Nick - I think you're ALMOST right on this one! But in this case the Merc is the way to go, since it is FUEL INJECTED, and the Yamaha isn't. From everthing I'm reading, here and elsewhere, don't even think about a getting a 4-stroke 30 HP and up, without EFI. Now, all if this presents a serious problem for Paul!

Maybe an EFI Suzuki would be the solution.

If 2-strokes are the option, the same displacement Merc 60 or Yamaha 70 might be just about right. The Merc 60 will cost less and should give similar performance.

I would also recommend Clark Robert's excellent discussion of this subject in the 15 Reference section. I think Clark knows more about the various engine options on a 15 than anyone in the country!

PMUCCIOLO posted 06-18-2002 03:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
lhg,

I'll investigate the Mercury 60HP EFI 4-stroke. There is an excellent Mercury dealer nearby (Lucenti-Bonds) who sells Bombardier, Mercury, and Yamaha. They have a large inventory of boats and specialize in repowering. Thank you for the suggestion.

Considering the low freeboard of the 15 (as compared to the 17), how much do you think the weight differences between two stroke and four stroke engines will affect it's trim and planing? Does anyone have experience with this?

Paul

george nagy posted 06-18-2002 04:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
how about a 90hp yamaha 2 stroke?
JBCornwell posted 06-18-2002 07:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Hmmm. The boat is rated for 70, so the Yammy 90 is out.

I mostly agree with Bigshot, Merc EFI 60 or. . . then the agreement stops. If it isn't EFI, forget it. I think the DF70, as wonderful as it is, is too heavy for a 15.

The Suzi/Johnson DF50EFI is a sweetheart and weighs only about 230lb. If it's performance compares to the Merc EFI 60 like the DF70 compares to the Merc 2s90 it is a viable choice, and has that newly legendary Suzi
magic.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

PMUCCIOLO posted 08-01-2002 05:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
I'm back, gents! Let's get down to business--power options.

The boat will be ready in about a month, so I have the luxury of time to shop. At my disposal are two excellent dealers, one for Mercury and one for Yamaha. They are both in close proximity to my home, so servicing either brand won't be an issue.

As usual, let's have any and all input, good or bad. Here are my options, listed alphabetically to remove any bias:

(1) Mercury 60HP four stroke (EFI)
(2) Mercury 60HP two stroke (carb)
(3) Yamaha 60HP four stroke (carb)
(4) Yamaha 70HP two stroke (carb)

The boat is going to be used for running around and a little fishing in the intracoastal and Ponce de Leon Inlet.

What are your thoughts?

Paul

russellbailey posted 08-01-2002 06:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for russellbailey  Send Email to russellbailey     
I thought I was about to have to do the same thing when the overheat horn went off on our 1987 70 Evinrude/15' Striper and I could not get it to restart later. Thankfully I figured out what had happened (several things together) and it is fine now.

But, in between, I was considering the options. As much as I advocate the max power (70 hp) or even more on the 15' due to our using it almost exclusively for waterskiing, the Merc 60 4-stroke EFI is the one I would buy, no question. I'd rather get a Merc 75 4-stroke (if it were EFI) or Suzi 70 4-stroke, but they are too heavy for my taste on the 15'.

Given the superior environmental benefits of the 4-stroke, I'd have a hard time not spending the extra 15-20% initially - you prevent a lot of pollution (both water and air) over a long life of the outboard. Secondly, you can run at slow/idle speeds as long as you want without gumming up the motor like on a 2 stroke (maybe newer 2 strokes do this better than our 1987). Lastly, the difference in an EFI and a carb is dramatic - I'd always take an EFI over a carb.

For my uses waterskiing a lot, I'd also likely get the Bigfoot. I honestly don't care about top end speed over about 35 mph - acceleration is my big thing, and the BF should get a little better grip than the standard foot. Since you don't mention planning to ski a lot, this might not be any benefit to you.

My $0.02.

Highwater posted 08-01-2002 10:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Highwater    
I wish that someone would address JB's comments about the Suzuki DF50EFI. Does its performance compare to the Merc EFI 60 like the DF70 compares to the Merc 2s90?
Highwater posted 08-02-2002 11:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Highwater    
I was just quoted a price of $5500 for a new 2002 Mercury 60 EFI 4-stroke with controls. Propeller and installation labor are extra. Is that a good price?

From other threads, I am assuming that the way to mount the new engine will be on a jack plate, even though this will add more weight to the stern. Right?

Bigshot posted 08-02-2002 12:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Do the plate! $5500...I would not pay it!
Louie Kokinis posted 08-02-2002 03:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Paul, good to see your back!!

A buddy of mine just re-powered his Montauk (from a 100 Merc 2 stroke) with a 60 Merc 4 stroke (EFI). The 60 does a great job with the Montauk, hes very pleased.

Louie

Highwater posted 08-02-2002 03:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Highwater    
Bigshot, I bought a CMC manual jackplate with 4" of setback. Hope that is okay.

If $5500 is not a good price for the Merc 60 EFI, what is a good price? Who should I call? Thanks! David

PMUCCIOLO posted 12-30-2002 05:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
Does anyone have experience with the 60HP Mercury/Yamaha 4-stroke on a 15 classic hull? I know that the exhilarating performance of the 70HP two-stroke won't be there, but will the boat be sluggish?
Monnas Rock posted 12-30-2002 07:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Monnas Rock  Send Email to Monnas Rock     
Paul, Carbs, on automobiles, have already gone the way of slide rules and adding machines. I suspect their demise on outboards can't be far behind. If your buying new and have the luxury of choice, why not be ahead of the curve and go with the EFI 4 stroke. Once you get this 15', you will probably want to keep it forever, so the cutting edge makes sense. It may not have the hole shot of the 2 stroke but like you said your just going to cruise around the inlet and fish. Of course, I'm a fine one to talk as I have an old Evenrude 70hp on my 15' striper and I love the hole shot and 45mph. runs across the lake. BUT, if I had to repower, it would be an EFI 4 stroke. Regards, Gary
Bigshot posted 12-31-2002 10:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
With a 70 the holeshot is absolutely INSANE. I can't imagine the 60 4 stroke being weak by ant means. With the engine that close to your head, the 4 stroke(efi) is the way to go. A carbed 4 stroke is still loud do to the carbs. Gas milage will also be extraordinary.
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-02-2003 10:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
Not to start the old Mercury vs. Yamaha feud, but, considering the four stroke 60HP versions offered by the two manufacturers, which brand would you select? Why?
Bigshot posted 01-02-2003 02:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
get the merc....has EFI. Yamaha does not. Supposably the same engine otherwise. merc will be cheaper. Controls amy be included w/merc. Yamaha everything alacarte.
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-03-2003 07:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
Bigfoot or regular lower unit?
weekendwarrior posted 01-04-2003 07:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for weekendwarrior  Send Email to weekendwarrior     
EFI is great, but I would not turn down a Yamaha 4-stroke because it's carbed. My 4-stroke is carbed and I have zero complaints. You have to choke it for a few seconds when it's cold, after that it runs like a top. If you prefer EFI then by all means go for it, but if you get a good deal on a carbed Yamaha I wouldn't snub it due to the carbs. Just my opinion, good luck with the new motor!

Clark Roberts posted 01-05-2003 07:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
Paul, the bigfoot is intended, per Merc's brochure,for heavy boat use like workboats, pontoons etc. and has a 2.3:1 lower unit gear ratio (same foot as the current 75/90hp). Mark King is running a 60hp 4S BigFoot on a Montauk and it works fine for him. The reg lower unit is smaller (less drag) and a 1.83:1 gear ratio. I would prefer the std lower unit as it should give better performance and economy especially on a 15'... a local crabber is running a new 60 4S Merc with std lower unit on a 20' (I think it's a 20') Carolina Skiff and he says it flys! Will get my hands on it soon and see for myself... heh, heh! You have the oportunity of choice... what could be better?! Happy Whalin'... clark... SCN
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-05-2003 05:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
Thank you, everyone, for your replies to my inquiry. I shall keep everyone apprised of my progress.

Paul

skred posted 01-06-2003 10:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for skred  Send Email to skred     
Just one more opinion: I repowered my 15CC with a Merc 50 4-cycle carbed version, and am totally satisfied. WOT is over 40 mph gps, cruise at 18-23, mileage is great...
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-06-2003 02:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
skred,

How is the boat's acceleration and planing with the 4S 50HP Merc?
skred posted 01-06-2003 03:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for skred  Send Email to skred     
The boat jumps right up on plane and accelerates very well with 2 adults and lots of fishing gear, cooler, and 12 gal of fuel.
I was surprised that the 50 almost equals the performance of the original Yam 70 2 stroke that I replaced. I feel sure it'd pull an adult skier just fine. My prop is a 13 pitch (I'm pretty sure). I fish a lot, troll a lot and cruise. Skiing is not my big concern. That 70 was so powerful, it actually scared me at WOT. 45+ mph in the 15 is borderline airborne....
All in all I couldn't be happier with the 50 4-stroke.
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-06-2003 05:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
skred,

Does your motor have the standard or bigfoot lower unit. How is its cold starting?

skred posted 01-07-2003 03:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for skred  Send Email to skred     
Mine has the standard lower unit. Cold starting is flawless. Warm starts gave a bit of trouble occasionally (stutter, kill), but I found out that it's just an adjustment the dealer can make.
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-07-2003 03:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
Thank you for the candid reply.
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-08-2003 01:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
After having communicated with many forum participants regarding this issue, I have decided to purchase the 70HP two-stroke Yamaha. I fully understand the environmental implications of the carbureted two-stroke 70 vs. the four stroke 60's. However, I cannot pass up the performance advantages conferred by the "old" technology with its lighter weight, higher torque, and hole shot.

I wish to express my gratitude to all of those who took their time to share insights and personal experiences. The motor should be installed by early February when the other work is done on the hull, so I should have performance figures by later that month.

skred posted 01-09-2003 08:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for skred  Send Email to skred     
Good luck, and a good choice. You'll have more speed/power that you will ever need...
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-13-2003 05:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
For the Yamaha 70HP two stroke, what SS propeller size is suggested? Is the appropriate-sized propeller available with a high polish (as opposed to the brushed finish or teflon-coated)?
Bigshot posted 01-14-2003 09:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I would say the 19" but someone else may know for sure. The 17" is usually good on a Montauk so i assume a 19" on a 15'.
VMG posted 01-14-2003 09:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for VMG  Send Email to VMG     
Take a peek at the thread "Right prop for 15 w/70hp" 12-21-02. That should get you started.
PMUCCIOLO posted 01-14-2003 05:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
Thanks, VMG, for the reference. It sounds as if the 19" prop is a good place to start.
PMUCCIOLO posted 04-07-2003 09:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
The boat is finished...and it is BEAUTIFUL!! My considering selling it outside the family caused an uproar...The motor is going to be installed next week. Has anyone reviewed the performance bulletin on the 60HP four-stroke on the 155 Scout on the Yamaha website? If so, should the 15 classic Boston Whaler hull post similar numbers? If so, I'm leaning in that direction. Any further insights will be greatly appreciated.

PM

Bigshot posted 04-08-2003 10:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
get the 60 Merc 4s...EFI and same engine for less $$$.
JB posted 04-08-2003 03:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for JB  Send Email to JB     
The 70 hp two-stroke is the way to go on the stern-heavy 15 footer. Trust me! I feel that the extra weight of the four-stroke will be felt substantially at less than plane and on quick back-downs. For the two stoke, you might want to have a few props available: a 13 1/4 X 17 for skiing/good hole shot, a 13 X 19 for cruising, and maybe something in the 21 pitch range for ??
Bigshot posted 04-08-2003 03:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Merc 60 weighs about the same as that Yam 70.
PMUCCIOLO posted 04-08-2003 06:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
Bigshot,

Is the new 60EFI 4-stroke Mercury compatible with the Smart Craft gauges? In other words, can one gauge be used which would deliver information similar to that provided by the Yamaha multi-function tachometer?

Perhaps lhg can shed some light on this. Avoiding drilling holes in the boat is of paramount importance. When the gelcoat is violated, I feel as if someone took out a chunk of my flesh!

PM

PMUCCIOLO posted 04-08-2003 06:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
On second thought, is Bob Kemmler Jr.'s jet drive still available?
Bigshot posted 04-09-2003 09:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I believe they are compatible. Jet drive would work if ya don't mind cutting a few LARGE holes;)
PMUCCIOLO posted 04-11-2003 09:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
The boat is on its way to have the 60 4-stroke installed. I shall have (after break-in, of course) performance numbers for the crew here on Continuous Wave.

I appreciate everyone's advice!

PM

mustang7nh posted 04-12-2003 09:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for mustang7nh  Send Email to mustang7nh     
My 15 had a 1986 70hp Johnson when it was new. It kicked butt. Find the most horsepower that matches the weight of that year engine. It was a perfect balance and definitely had plenty of power/weight.
PMUCCIOLO posted 04-12-2003 10:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
Mustang7nh,

I appreciate your input. The boat was dropped off this morning to have a 60HP Yamaha four-stroke installed. After a thorough review of the available literature, discussions with numerous dealers, and careful consideration of the benefits versus drawbacks of both two-stroke and four-stroke engines for my family's intended applications, the four-stroke was the obvious choice.

Yamaha now offers a selection of polished stainless propellers for their four-stroke engines in this size range. That certainly sweetened the deal!

One of my brothers is picking up the boat next weekend. We can't wait!

PM

lhg posted 04-14-2003 07:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Paul - Congratulations on your purchase of a new gray Mercury 4-stroke! How come you decided against EFI in favor of carburetion?
PMUCCIOLO posted 04-15-2003 05:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
lhg,

The choice boiled down to two things: preference and $$$$.

PM

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