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Author Topic:   Twin 90's on 18-Outrage
goose posted 07-21-2002 10:02 PM ET (US)   Profile for goose   Send Email to goose  
Hey guys, I've got a 1986 18-Outrage with a 150-HP Merc. The opportunity has come up to buy a pair of twin 90 Yamaha's for a very low price. I'd like to do the swap for dependability reasons offshore. Just curious if anyone has a similar setup and has any input pros/con. Also I am expecting better top end MPH; any thoughts? Thanks in advance, Don
JBCornwell posted 07-22-2002 12:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Ninety plus ninety is 180, not 150.

150 is the USCG Max hp rating for the OR-18.

Contrary to popular mythology USCG max HP ratings are not suggestions. They are regulations and they are enforcable.

Two Honda 90s weigh something over 700 pounds. The OR-18 was intended for 300 to 500 lb on the transom.

Finally, 2 90s would probably not perform as well as one 150.

Questions?

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

JBCornwell posted 07-22-2002 12:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Ninety plus ninety is 180, not 150.

150 is the USCG Max hp rating for the OR-18.

Contrary to popular mythology USCG max HP ratings are not suggestions. They are regulations and they are enforcable.

Two Honda 90s weigh something over 700 pounds. The OR-18 was intended for 300 to 500 lb on the transom.

Finally, 2 90s would probably not perform as well as one 150.

Questions?

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

goose posted 07-22-2002 01:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for goose  Send Email to goose     
thanks for the input...whats the reason for a
loss in performance ? is it weight? and the drag of two lower units?
jimh posted 07-22-2002 08:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Those 90-Yamaha engine are quite light, only 260# each, so a pair of them on the transom of an 18 Outrage would probably not be too much weight. In comparison, a 150-HP EFI Suzuki weights 470#, only 50# less. You could save that weight in the transom by moving a battery.

Twins won't be faster than a single engine, generally, because of the drag of two lower units, but that is not etched in stone. With twins you are running about 5-inches less draft, and that could save your bacon one day, too.

I do think twin power helps the boat handle better. But you are also faced with twice the cost of many things: controls, gauges, maintenance, oil-changes, water pump impellers, etc.

JBCornwell posted 07-22-2002 08:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
My bad. I don't know how I read Yamaha and thought Honda.

Obviously the weight is just fine, but 180 hp is still overpowered.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

JohnAz posted 07-22-2002 11:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for JohnAz  Send Email to JohnAz     
I have always been a free spirit,,,i will always put what i want on a boat, i dont care what the feds say,, in aircraft you just put an "EXPERIMENTAL" Label on the craft
andygere posted 07-22-2002 02:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Tom Byrum used to run an Outrage 18 with twin Yam 70s (Cetacea page 8), and the boat performed very nicely. Twin 90's would be even sweeter, and wouldn't (in my opinion) overpower the boat due to the increased drag of the lower units. Remember, the rated horsepower is only made at WOT. One advantage of your proposed set up is that the boat will plane on a single 90 if you lose one offshore.
hauptjm posted 07-22-2002 02:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
One of our more distinguished guests runs twin 115 Mercs on an 18OR. I know mine hauls on a 150 OMC; I'd love to see the results of 230hp on the transom.
JBCornwell posted 07-22-2002 03:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
I suppose I've made this point too many times.

Breaking the law is breaking the law. USCG ratings are the LAW.

There are ZERO macho points, guys, ZERO, for how much you defy the law. Whether enforced or not is irrelevant. Liability is a very real concept. Too much power is no different than too much booze.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

lhg posted 07-22-2002 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I've decided to enroll my 18 Outrage in a program to get it dried out.
russellbailey posted 07-22-2002 04:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for russellbailey  Send Email to russellbailey     
JB,

You are a very knowledgable poster about Boston Whalers, and I respect your opinions about horsepower, but you are in error about the legality (federal) of an individual exceeding the hp ratings on a boat.

I have reviewed the USCG regs as well as state boating regulations in GA and AL. The only law regarding hp I found was that a manufacturer is required to place a placard on the hull listing both the maximum weight capacity and maximum hp that they have verified is safe.

There could easily be some states that do regulate horsepower as state laws vary widely, and it is possible I simply missed the appropriate part of the US code, but I don't think I did.

If you do have a code or regulatory citation you could reference, or a specific incident where a citation was issued for excess horsepower (as opposed to reckless operation), or a lawsuit over exceeding the rating, I would be very interested in learning of it.

Russell
(at max rating with 70 on our 15' and using every bit of the 70 to get up when fully loaded, but too chicken(smart?) to run flat out much)

JBCornwell posted 07-22-2002 08:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Howdy, Russell.

You are right. If I am gonna sound like a lawyer I ought to be able to quote scripture.

Though I have read of quite a few "willful negligence" cases based on overpowering and at least one reckless homicide case based on overpowering, and in each case that I recall the state prevailed, I don't think I can recall a publicised case that did not involve and accident.

The only case in which I have personal knowledge involved the death of the only son of a close friend. My friend was indicted (gross negligence, endangering a child) for allowing the boy (17) to operate an overpowered boat (40hp on a jon rated for 20) that killed him.

Respect for his privacy prevents me from more detail than that. Perhaps it will explain my passion on the subject.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

Tom Byrum posted 07-22-2002 08:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
I don't know about the legality part, but I think a 18 with twin 90's would be worth going to jail for. You won't regret it, I promise.
jimh posted 07-23-2002 08:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The older classic hulls are often rated with a minimum-to-maxium horsepower that is in the range of 1:2 or greater. This makes them ideal for powering by twin engines where the boat can still be pushed to planing speeds by a single engine. A set up like that gives you redundant power but you can still go home at high speed on one engine.

Some of the newer model Whalers have a minimum-to-maximum horsepower that in more in the range of 1:1.2. For example, the current 18-foot hull in Dauntless or Ventura trim carries a recommendation for minimum/maximum of 125/150, not much of a range.

DaveH posted 07-23-2002 04:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for DaveH  Send Email to DaveH     
I'm with JB on this one. Lawyers will have a field day exploiting the recklessness of an overpowered boat, out of control, etc. It's not worth your house and a garnish on your future income. Insurance Companies have policies about exceeding the recommended Hp on the CG plate and will drop you like a hot potato. Without them, you're feeding the defense laywer off your dime. If you want pure speed, buy a different boat but stay within the CG plate.
Bigshot posted 07-23-2002 04:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Guys....you can get insurance for an overpowered boat....no big deal. ant boat over 21 or 22 foot does not require a plate.
peteinsf posted 07-23-2002 05:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for peteinsf    
BoatUS insured my Radier-18.6 with a 200, no problem...
compounder posted 07-23-2002 07:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for compounder  Send Email to compounder     
Bigshot,
It is indeed a "big deal!" At least in the state I live in.

I would be very worried unless my policy specifically stated that I was covered for an over-powered craft. Even then I would want an attorney to review it.

Insurance companies apparently are willing to sell you a policy and collect the premiums knowing full well that you may have a problem that will prevent you from collecting a settlement.

Moral of the story: Read your policy. Know EXACTLY what is and is not covered.

Bigshot posted 07-24-2002 09:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
My bad....

For those who are not illiterate and can read their policies.....no big deal if you don't mind spending a few hundred more.

DaveH posted 07-25-2002 10:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for DaveH  Send Email to DaveH     
BS is right about paying more for insurance on engines exceeding the CG plate. You can get insurance for just about anything these days (didn't Mary Hart from ET insure her legs or something for $ 1million years ago?). I was eluding to the fact that a lawyer seeking a damage claim will exploit this to his favor. If your policy doesn't stipulate acceptance or have a rider on the existing policy, you're fair game. Maybe some of our lawyer friends on this site can remember any maritime insurance cases which set precedence in this matter.
lhg posted 07-25-2002 02:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Basically, with any insurance contract, you tell your Agent what you have, and if it is acceptable to their underwriting standands, they will issue a quote and offer to write. Then you have a valid insurance contract and they can't deny coverage. Your signed boat insurance application is the basis for your coverage and your full disclosure to the company. They are committed to you.

If you lie about your engine size and max boat speed, whether it be outboard or inboard, they can invalidate the contract. Some will, some won't, depending on the nature and type of claim, and severity, but why take a chance? If the high HP is the likely cause of the claim, you could be in trouble. But if they accept your excess powered boat, take your money, and list the engine & HP, you are INSURED. Some will write a boat with listed HP over the rating, some won't. This is the reponsibility of your insurance agent, and how much you want to pay. If some Agents don't have a company that will accept an excess powered boat, they will often tell you it can't be done, period, and other horror stories like we are seeing here. They are lying to you. Call another Agent. There usually is a surchage for exceeding the rating. Just don't put 70HP decals on a 90, and tell the insurance company you have 70.

There has been a lot of boat insurance misinformation on this site, but I believe the above to be correct. I pay a surcharge to insure my excess powered Whaler Outrages with the Travelers Insurance Co. The percentage of excess HP usually determines how high the surcharge is. The correct engine HP is clearly stated, and the company is obligated to pay any claim.

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