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  Power for an 11'4" whaler

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Author Topic:   Power for an 11'4" whaler
Seattle posted 08-13-2002 09:21 PM ET (US)   Profile for Seattle   Send Email to Seattle  
I
've been given a 1977 1'4" whaler with a bad 25 Johnson. I'd like to replace it with a large enough motor to easily pull my kids on a tube or board. I know it's rated for a 20 hps, but would like more. I can get a older small block 25 or a large block 25 Johnson(early 80's). Does anyone have any experience using the larger block? Is it to heavy for this boat? Is the boat still managable (I've had lot's of boats, but this is my first Whaler). Any suggertions on engine/prop combination would be helpful. I really don't want to spend more then $700.00. Thanks.
JBCornwell posted 08-13-2002 10:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
My first suggestion is don't overpower the boat.

The 11 is a Tender, not a ski boat. If you want a ski boat trade it for one.

Good luck.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

whalersailer posted 08-14-2002 09:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalersailer  Send Email to whalersailer     
My last whaler was an 11' sport (I'm assuming that is what you have) with a 1985 Johnson 25. The boat went well with that power, and I wouldn't say it was overpowered. Transom weight wasn't a problem. I go about 240#, and never took water over the transom. Mine was a manual start, so an electric would be heavier. I think the 11 is too small for an electric start (no room for the battery), but that's just my opinion. I really wouldn't put anything larger than a 25 on the boat (and nothing larger than a 15 if you don't have remote steering). With the 25 and 1 passenger, you should have no problem pulling a tube or wakeboard, but forget skiing. As JB said, it isn't a ski boat. If that's what you really want, I would suggest moving up to at least a 13' with a 40 on it.
Bigshot posted 08-14-2002 11:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Skiing....15' with 70hp.
Seattle posted 08-14-2002 12:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Seattle  Send Email to Seattle     
The boat originally had a small 25 on it which worked great, but it seemed like it could have had more power.I'm not looking for a ski boat, just something to periodically pull my young kids, then tuck away in the garage. I guess the main question is if anyone has had experience using the larger, heavier johnson 25; did it handle okay and did it make a difference in power?
Bigshot posted 08-14-2002 12:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
All OMC 25's from the 60's until today are basically the same. The new 25 is the same as a 1985 and pretty close to a 1975. They did and still may make the 3cyl 25 and that of course is different. But if you are looking at new 2cyl 2 stroke OMC's then they would be equivalent of the old one you took off, but with a different lower unit.

If you are looking for a decent 25 for under $700, gonna be a tad hard to find in great shape being it is 25 years old, etc. E-bay will be your MOST expensive route, they sell high there unless it is one that HAS to be picked up. Where are you located?

Bigshot posted 08-14-2002 12:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Duh! I just read your name.
11 footer posted 08-14-2002 01:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for 11 footer  Send Email to 11 footer     
seattle buy a bigger boat you are asking to much out of thr poor 11' sport.
I take mine on long trips but i do not pull
things. its not made for that (hop you have a console.)
oysterman posted 08-14-2002 01:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for oysterman  Send Email to oysterman     
I had a 11' Tender with a Evinrude 25 on it. It was fast alright, but too squirrely. When pulling a skier or someone on an innertube, the boat would would pull pretty hard. We didn't have it long. Nice boat to cruise in, but not enough boat to play in. Just my experiance.
aldo posted 08-15-2002 08:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for aldo  Send Email to aldo     

We recently purchased "whalersailor's" 11' w/25hp...love it...the 25 is just fine...not too heavy...really scoots and seems to be balanced nicely with my son and me onboard (total weight about 350lbs)...pj, FYI...did a little more work---refinished wood, fixed some dings, etc...put new license #s on and a name on transom (Shrimp DuJour)...we love it...the Resorter's been on the lift since we put "Shrimp" in the water.

Aldo

Seattle posted 08-16-2002 10:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for Seattle  Send Email to Seattle     
I just found a Johnson 35 horse that I think I'll try. After reading about the guy with the 9' Whaler and a 25 horse, it seems the boats will handle more power. You're all correct in that the 25 was a fun motor, but I always felt the boat could use a little more power.
whalersailer posted 08-16-2002 10:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalersailer  Send Email to whalersailer     
35??? Yikes!!!

Make sure you bring a change of underwear!!!

JBCornwell posted 08-16-2002 11:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Say, Seattle.

Reread the above posts. With 25hp it is unstable, it flips.

Are you into a death wish or something?

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

Bigshot posted 08-16-2002 01:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I'd try a 35, not much more ooomph than the 25 but will handle weight better. 11's will flip with a 10hp on them if you go into the wind and get a bit of air. My friend had a 15 on his and he flipped that thing like 6 times.
oysterman posted 08-16-2002 04:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for oysterman  Send Email to oysterman     
A 35? Man I thought a 25 made this thing fly. Be careful and have your insurance paid up:)
Seattle posted 08-16-2002 05:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Seattle  Send Email to Seattle     
I've appreciated your comments, I'll let you know how the boat/motor combintion works. When the 25 was running (years ago), once it got onto a plane, it handled great, but I'd have to lean towards the bow if I was by myself to get it planeing quickly. The boat does have center stearing and controls which help.
KeysNole posted 08-18-2002 06:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for KeysNole  Send Email to KeysNole     
My fried put a 35hp on his 11' ss. It was the same weight as the 25hp. He took that thing so far off of Ft. Lauderdale that he saw Bimini.

The only time a boat is overpowered is when it is driven dangerously.

JBCornwell posted 08-18-2002 07:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Tell that to the Coast Guard and the Judge, Keysnole.

The plate says "Maximum Horsepower", not "Suggested Horsepower."

I had a good friend prosecuted for Willful Negligence because he allowed his son to overpower the boat that killed him.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

acseatsri posted 08-18-2002 08:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
You should keep in mind that if your old 25 HP was pre-1973 or so (someone correct me on the exact year), power was rated at the powerhead, vs at the prop after that year. So your pre-1973 25 was equivalent to a 20 HP or less- probably moreso if it had a lot of hours on it.
bocaspiff posted 08-21-2002 02:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for bocaspiff  Send Email to bocaspiff     
I thought the 11' Sport was rated for 10 HP. Does you guys really support tripling HP on Whalers? That would be like putting a 300 HP Pro Max Mercury racing motor on a Montauk. Hmmm...maybe you guys Are on to something.
David Jenkins posted 08-21-2002 11:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Jenkins  Send Email to David Jenkins     
The 11' has always been rated for 20 hp.

I fully understand JB's arguement, underscored as it is with first-hand personal tragedy. And yet for years I owned an 11' powered with a 25 hp Evinrude. I never felt that the boat was overpowered. On the contrary, I often wished for just a bit more power when carrying a heavy load. If the 35 was the same weight as the 25, I'd prefer to have it on my boat.

My biggest reservation is that there might be a time when one of my children or some other inexperienced pilot might run at WOT in a heavy sea. Or the next owner. Increased risk all around.

Flipper posted 08-21-2002 11:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Flipper  Send Email to Flipper     
We just purchased an eleven, from friends of ours up the river,and it came with a 35 Evinrude (80's model) on it.This boat was used by their kids (something I might think twice about)for years, with no incident.It is a fun boat to drive, and it is quite stable and predictable.Responsible use is key.
Dunk posted 08-22-2002 12:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dunk  Send Email to Dunk     
The plate on the transom say Maximum Recommended Horsepower" The CG has absolutely no laws pertaining to HP. Florida is the only state, but they refer back to the CG.

The civil and insurance end of it are a different thing. Especially selling an overpowered boat to another person.

If the 11 footer is anything like the 13 footer the extra hp is not going to help the speed. The 13's had so much hook in the bottom's of them the more power you put to them the harder they stuff the bow. The old 13's were a 32-34mph boat with 40hp. Maybe 35-36 with 50hp Merc. The extra power will come in handy for carrying more of a load.

11 footer posted 08-22-2002 04:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for 11 footer  Send Email to 11 footer     
Not only is more hp better for big loads
It will pull up tube's ect.....
better.
KeysNole posted 08-23-2002 01:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for KeysNole  Send Email to KeysNole     
JB, I work in insurance. Actually we don't check boats for motor size/max hp ratings.

However like I said, the boat is only overpowered if you run it too fast. The chances of your friend's son being killed when his motor was doing 500 rpm are slim and none.

Bigshot posted 08-27-2002 02:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Dunk is on the money! Putting a 35 on an 11 may give you 2-3mph over the 25 but will handle the load better. It will also ruin the transom quicker. Weight does not necessarily stress the transon, HP does.
11 footer posted 08-27-2002 04:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for 11 footer  Send Email to 11 footer     
The max hp is 20 for a reason.
SpeedyWhaler posted 08-27-2002 05:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for SpeedyWhaler  Send Email to SpeedyWhaler     
Reason: to keep ignorant people from killing them selves....and others.

The Coast Guard uses a formula on every boat for the max HP rating, they don't even have to see the boat....and they surely don't take a test drive. So it's NOT based on how strong the transom is. It's the weight and length.

Bigshot posted 08-27-2002 06:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Actually it is the width more than anything that determines HP ratings. On a 11' boat the formula does not work very well but on 17+ it does. Not many if ANY 11' boats are rated for 20hp so you know right there that if it does not do the job, you need a bigger boat. Semi displacement hulls are funny. A 11' with a 25 will be slower than a 13' with a 25 even though it is longer and heavier. My buds 15' with a 35 was faster than my 13 with a 35, etc. My friends Carolina Skiff J16 was faster with a 25 Yamaha than my 14 with a 30 yamaha. Putting more hp on does not necessarily add that much more speed.
DeePa posted 09-01-2002 09:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeePa  Send Email to DeePa     
Quoted By: JB
"Tell that to the Coast Guard and the Judge, Keysnole.
The plate says "Maximum Horsepower", not "Suggested Horsepower."

I had a good friend prosecuted for Willful Negligence because he allowed his son to overpower the boat that killed him.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)"


totally agree and yes you guys have a point with the overpowering only happeneing when someone runs it too fast...but incidencts happen where ever and when ever. Just because it didnt happen yet, doesnt mean its not going to. When i go out on a boat, im happy enought just riding along...i dont care how fast im going...

11 footer posted 09-01-2002 10:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for 11 footer  Send Email to 11 footer     
You are right. Because people that have that power are going to use it. Althow they think they are being safe not many people have the self controle.
Seattle posted 09-02-2002 01:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for Seattle  Send Email to Seattle     
Okay, I didn't realize I was opening up such a hot topic when asking about over powering. However I did appreciate hearing from you so I could make a more informed decision before I bought. I choose to listen to those that had first hand experience overpowering this little boat and am pleased with my choice. Let me first say I realize the boat is rated at maximum 20 hps and I am clearly out of this range; the motor has been purchased,so we don't need to go back over the moral, ethical,and/or "legal" implications. That said, let me tell you what I found.
I bought a 1978 35 hrp Johnson in beautiful condition with little use for $700.00. It bolted right in place of the old 25hrs, even used the same controls. I took it out today for the first time on Lake Washington and had a BLAST! The extra power ment I didn't have to stand over the bow to get on a plane (if I was by myself), and pulled a tube easily with 3 people in the boat. The boat quickly planes, and has more then enough power to pull a tuber faster then what they want. I did not pull a wakeboarder, but I don't anticipate any problems with kids. By myself, WOT is FAST, but the boat handled well and I was never concerned about getting in trouble (although WOT is only for going straight, you need to slow down when turning). All said and done, for what I wanted I am very pleased with the extra horsepower and feel the boat does well with it. It's not a "Ski" boat, nor is it a "Racer", but for my needs it does just what I want. I don't suggest everyone overpower their boat, and if they choose to go the route I've gone, it is alot of power that is Fun Fun Fun, but at the same time needs to be respected.
11 footer posted 09-02-2002 10:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for 11 footer  Send Email to 11 footer     
1978!!!!!!!
well good luck.
lol
11 footer posted 09-02-2002 06:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for 11 footer  Send Email to 11 footer     
ha! ha! ha!
BQUICK posted 09-06-2002 02:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for BQUICK  Send Email to BQUICK     
Put a 50 on that thing, no seriously...
I agree that overpowering is usually only a factor at top speed....as long as the motor is not too heavy for the boat.

The main reason (:)) I put a 50 Merc on my 13 was that the motor was smoooth and quiet compared to the 33 and 40 Evinrudes (egg beaters) that I had before AND I could cruise quietly at the 40s top speed and use less fuel doing it.

Later models were rated (by BIA and or CG?) such that it was an offence per the CG to exceed it.
I was pulled over by the CG and due to it being a 1971 and what was on the manufacturer sticker I could not be cited.
(a buddy with a later model 13 w/55 Johnson had his pulled out of the water and confiscated for evidence by the CG)

Bruce

Bigshot posted 09-06-2002 04:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Bruce that depends on the state which you are running in. In FL they can't do boo.

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