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Author Topic:   4-Stroke oil

RWM posted 10-06-2002 10:56 PM ET (US)
I'm getting ready to winterize(sob)my 70 HP 4-stroke Evinrude. The OMC manual recommends a 10/40 OMC synthetic (at $7.50 per quart). The Suzuki dealer recommends the Suzuki 10/40 marine 4-stroke oil, non synthetic, at $2.50 per quart. Since this is basically a car engine on its side, and I've been told that 10/40 is inferior to 10/30, I don't see why I shouldn't use my tried and true oil I always use in my automobiles which is Valvoline 10/30. I change the oil and filter every 100 hours or less. Am I missing something?...Bob M.
raygun posted 10-06-2002 11:56 PM ET (US)
10W-40 is inferior to 10W-30? That's a new one on me. I'd like to hear an explanation of that.
jimh posted 10-07-2002 08:04 AM ET (US)
There are a couple of interesting observations in this posting.
First, it sounds like Suzuki has not learned to triple the price of everything that is related to marine use, since they're only charging $2.50/quart for oil--heck that is a auto store discount price!
Second, with recently made, modern engines, I would use the recommended oil, especially if it is only $2.50/quart.
Also, I have seen some Mercruiser stern drive engines (4-stroke automotive blocks) that require an odd 10-40W oil. I don't think these oils are quite the same as the automotive multi-vicosity oils. I don't have a thorough understanding of what the difference is with these 10-40W marine oils, but they seem to be popularly recommended by the makers.
TampaTom posted 10-07-2002 09:37 AM ET (US)
My understanding having read posts on performance car sites is that 10w-40 is not often recomended anymore. The W stands for "winter". Of coarse the lower (ie. 10 vs. 20) viscosity flows better cold but thins out out as it heats up. The lower viscosity allows oil to quickly move through the engine and get to work at start up (when most engine wear occurs) but not thin out so much that is doesn't perform under heat and stress.
All multi viscosity oils use polymer additives to change viscosity as temperature changes. As the oil heats up the polymer strands coil and create the higher viscosity. 10w-40 sounds great in theory but in reality it just pushes the envelope too far. Too much additive, not enough base oil. Although the spread is the same on on 20w-50, understand that it doesn't require as much additive to increase a base 20 oil.
Bigshot posted 10-07-2002 11:04 AM ET (US)
From what my mechanic and dealer tell me is that the "marine" oil has additives like marine grease to absorb more water. That in theory is great but I do not see how water can gain access to a closed sump engine. I also know that there is no difference other than that so their 10-40 is just as good as a premium(say Castrol) 10-40. My motorcylcles also recommend OEM Kawasaki oil at $5/qt and I and everyone else run Castrol GTX and never had any issues, nor does it void any warranty.
My evinrude 70 4 stroke currently has Zuki non-synthetic oil in it because they did the oil change at the 20 hour service. Being I do NOT have to winterize(joy), I will be upgrading to either mobil 1 or some other automotive synthetic oil 10-40. My Hardley Davidson used non-synthetic because mobil 1 leaked out being it was so slippery. If my Evinzuki does the same I will convert back to non-synthetic. Being my engine is Japanese....I doubt I will have that issue. I would recommend that you use Castrol GTX in that they are designed for higher revving engines. The Quaker state 4x4 oil may be great too being it is for hard use.
Lil Whaler Lover posted 10-07-2002 01:31 PM ET (US)
The choice of which oil to use seems to be about as personal as selecting underwear. One choice never fits all.
The American Petroleum Institute (API) has rated/certified 4 cycle oils for may years. I believe that new cars/trucks require "API Service SI" oil to meet warranty requirements. This rating is only available as 5W-30 and 10-W30. No 40 weight oil meets this quality level!
The oil distributed by Mercury for their Mercruisers is actually a 25W-40 oil the last time I looked.
For 4 cycle outboards I would not choose to move away from the factory recommendations while the thing is still under the factory warranty. Just common sense to not give them any item they could possibly identify to void warranty coverage.
I would like to hear from Dick on this one as I particularly appreciate his expertise on items such as this.
Bigshot posted 10-07-2002 04:15 PM ET (US)
Just like they can't void warranty for using Penzoil TCW3, they can't for 4 strokes as long as it meets specs.
RWM posted 10-07-2002 09:54 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the comments, particularly on why 10/40 doesn't measure up to 10/30 regarding lubricating qualitites. I like Castrol GTX pretty much as well as Valvoline and it was on sale today for $5.00 for a 5 quart jug so I picked a couple up.
By the way, Suzuki is with the "marine pricing program". That tiny spin on oil filter cost me $12.00 vs. the $3.00 I pay for a Fram auto filter...Bob M.
Dick posted 10-07-2002 10:48 PM ET (US)
Many good comments so far. The fact that was stated that any engine oil meeting the API specs will not void your warranty is true.
Check your owners manual and make sure the oil you are using meets the required specs.
At our shop we use nothing but Mercury oil for Mercury products, 25W40 for I/Os and 10W30 for 4 stroke outboards. OMC and Volvo I/Os get Texaco. Haven't seen a JohnRude 4 stroke yet so don't know what we would put in it, but my guess would be Merc 10W30.
Jiles posted 10-07-2002 10:55 PM ET (US)
Being a mechanic, I have done extensive research on engine oils. I use the viscosity oil that the manufactor recomends. As far as synthetic oil is concerned, I think it is superior to multi-grade oil but can't justify the cost. I have no trouble getting 100 to 175 thousand miles using multi-grade oil in my automobiles. In my opinion one should not change from multi-grade to synthetic, or vice-versa, after engine break-in because these two type oils have different "oil seal SWELL properties", meaning you stand a good chance of oil leaks after the change over. I also realize that boat motor manufacturors do not make their particular brand of oil. I found this information VERY interesting: http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil.html type this exactly and you should get OIL& LUBRICATION. Scan down the page to THE SURPRISING TRUITH ABOUT MOTOR OILS. It will be worth your time!
Dick posted 10-07-2002 11:10 PM ET (US)
Many good comments so far. The fact that was stated that any engine oil meeting the API specs will not void your warranty is true.
Check your owners manual and make sure the oil you are using meets the required specs.
At our shop we use nothing but Mercury oil for Mercury products, 25W40 for I/Os and 10W30 for 4 stroke outboards. OMC and Volvo I/Os get Texaco. Haven't seen a JohnRude 4 stroke yet so don't know what we would put in it, but my guess would be Merc 10W30.
Clark Roberts posted 10-08-2002 09:13 AM ET (US)
Merc recommends 10W30 oil for my 115 4s and I am using Castrol GTX and change every 100 hrs (approx). It meets all the requirements in the manual... good enough for me! Happy Whalin'.... Clark
Bigshot posted 10-08-2002 10:58 AM ET (US)
Evinzuki recs 10-40. i do not however agree with the changing over to synthetic after breakin. I have done it with everything I own. I would not break in an engine on synthetic and I hear it might not breakin at all because it is so slippery. Most cars come with a breakin oil that you change out so why not at that point use synthetic. I would not start using synthetic in cars over 70k because they may start to leak. I believe in Synthetic. I do n ot think it wil necessarily make my engine last longer but it is more convenienmt to change every 7k than every 2500, especially when your filters are like $18.
As far as the Evinzuki goes....get a Fram for a Suzuki Samurai for $3 and stay away from the dealer.
dgp posted 10-08-2002 11:22 AM ET (US)
Porsche, Mercedes and even my VW diesel (sorry lhg) comes with factory fill of 100% synthetic engine oil.
newt posted 10-08-2002 12:18 PM ET (US)
Oil changes are over-rated.
I put 146,000 miles on my nissan with penzoil 10-30 changed every 8-10k miles. Once I even went 12,000 miles. The motor was still running strong when I sold the truck.
I know two people that went 150,000 miles or more on 4 oil changes with mobile 1 synthetic. 1 still has the truck and it is running strong. The other guy traded his in.
I should note that all my miles are highway. Very little stop and go. Forget oil changes every 3k miles. Save your money for a new boat.
RWM posted 10-08-2002 12:31 PM ET (US)
Surprisingly, nobody has questioned if changing the oil every 100 hours is enough.
If I were to change my car on that schedule, and assume I averaged 60 MPH, that would equate to changing the oil every 6000 miles. Since I average more than 3500 RPM on my outboard, 100 hours seems like a little more time between changes than I would want.
I change the oil in my car every 3000 miles and just turned 200,000 miles with no engine problems or need to add any oil between changes. I'd like to take care of my outboard the same way...Bob M.
Bigshot posted 10-08-2002 02:25 PM ET (US)
bob....for some reason the oil comes out really clean at 100 hours(friend did his). I'm doing mine at about 70 hours.

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Author	Topic: 4-Stroke oil
RWM	posted 10-06-2002 10:56 PM ET (US) I'm getting ready to winterize(sob)my 70 HP 4-stroke Evinrude. The OMC manual recommends a 10/40 OMC synthetic (at $7.50 per quart). The Suzuki dealer recommends the Suzuki 10/40 marine 4-stroke oil, non synthetic, at $2.50 per quart. Since this is basically a car engine on its side, and I've been told that 10/40 is inferior to 10/30, I don't see why I shouldn't use my tried and true oil I always use in my automobiles which is Valvoline 10/30. I change the oil and filter every 100 hours or less. Am I missing something?...Bob M.
raygun	posted 10-06-2002 11:56 PM ET (US) 10W-40 is inferior to 10W-30? That's a new one on me. I'd like to hear an explanation of that.
jimh	posted 10-07-2002 08:04 AM ET (US) There are a couple of interesting observations in this posting. First, it sounds like Suzuki has not learned to triple the price of everything that is related to marine use, since they're only charging $2.50/quart for oil--heck that is a auto store discount price! Second, with recently made, modern engines, I would use the recommended oil, especially if it is only $2.50/quart. Also, I have seen some Mercruiser stern drive engines (4-stroke automotive blocks) that require an odd 10-40W oil. I don't think these oils are quite the same as the automotive multi-vicosity oils. I don't have a thorough understanding of what the difference is with these 10-40W marine oils, but they seem to be popularly recommended by the makers.
TampaTom	posted 10-07-2002 09:37 AM ET (US) My understanding having read posts on performance car sites is that 10w-40 is not often recomended anymore. The W stands for "winter". Of coarse the lower (ie. 10 vs. 20) viscosity flows better cold but thins out out as it heats up. The lower viscosity allows oil to quickly move through the engine and get to work at start up (when most engine wear occurs) but not thin out so much that is doesn't perform under heat and stress. All multi viscosity oils use polymer additives to change viscosity as temperature changes. As the oil heats up the polymer strands coil and create the higher viscosity. 10w-40 sounds great in theory but in reality it just pushes the envelope too far. Too much additive, not enough base oil. Although the spread is the same on on 20w-50, understand that it doesn't require as much additive to increase a base 20 oil.
Bigshot	posted 10-07-2002 11:04 AM ET (US) From what my mechanic and dealer tell me is that the "marine" oil has additives like marine grease to absorb more water. That in theory is great but I do not see how water can gain access to a closed sump engine. I also know that there is no difference other than that so their 10-40 is just as good as a premium(say Castrol) 10-40. My motorcylcles also recommend OEM Kawasaki oil at $5/qt and I and everyone else run Castrol GTX and never had any issues, nor does it void any warranty. My evinrude 70 4 stroke currently has Zuki non-synthetic oil in it because they did the oil change at the 20 hour service. Being I do NOT have to winterize(joy), I will be upgrading to either mobil 1 or some other automotive synthetic oil 10-40. My Hardley Davidson used non-synthetic because mobil 1 leaked out being it was so slippery. If my Evinzuki does the same I will convert back to non-synthetic. Being my engine is Japanese....I doubt I will have that issue. I would recommend that you use Castrol GTX in that they are designed for higher revving engines. The Quaker state 4x4 oil may be great too being it is for hard use.
Lil Whaler Lover	posted 10-07-2002 01:31 PM ET (US) The choice of which oil to use seems to be about as personal as selecting underwear. One choice never fits all. The American Petroleum Institute (API) has rated/certified 4 cycle oils for may years. I believe that new cars/trucks require "API Service SI" oil to meet warranty requirements. This rating is only available as 5W-30 and 10-W30. No 40 weight oil meets this quality level! The oil distributed by Mercury for their Mercruisers is actually a 25W-40 oil the last time I looked. For 4 cycle outboards I would not choose to move away from the factory recommendations while the thing is still under the factory warranty. Just common sense to not give them any item they could possibly identify to void warranty coverage. I would like to hear from Dick on this one as I particularly appreciate his expertise on items such as this.
Bigshot	posted 10-07-2002 04:15 PM ET (US) Just like they can't void warranty for using Penzoil TCW3, they can't for 4 strokes as long as it meets specs.
RWM	posted 10-07-2002 09:54 PM ET (US) Thanks for all the comments, particularly on why 10/40 doesn't measure up to 10/30 regarding lubricating qualitites. I like Castrol GTX pretty much as well as Valvoline and it was on sale today for $5.00 for a 5 quart jug so I picked a couple up. By the way, Suzuki is with the "marine pricing program". That tiny spin on oil filter cost me $12.00 vs. the $3.00 I pay for a Fram auto filter...Bob M.
Dick	posted 10-07-2002 10:48 PM ET (US) Many good comments so far. The fact that was stated that any engine oil meeting the API specs will not void your warranty is true. Check your owners manual and make sure the oil you are using meets the required specs. At our shop we use nothing but Mercury oil for Mercury products, 25W40 for I/Os and 10W30 for 4 stroke outboards. OMC and Volvo I/Os get Texaco. Haven't seen a JohnRude 4 stroke yet so don't know what we would put in it, but my guess would be Merc 10W30.
Jiles	posted 10-07-2002 10:55 PM ET (US) Being a mechanic, I have done extensive research on engine oils. I use the viscosity oil that the manufactor recomends. As far as synthetic oil is concerned, I think it is superior to multi-grade oil but can't justify the cost. I have no trouble getting 100 to 175 thousand miles using multi-grade oil in my automobiles. In my opinion one should not change from multi-grade to synthetic, or vice-versa, after engine break-in because these two type oils have different "oil seal SWELL properties", meaning you stand a good chance of oil leaks after the change over. I also realize that boat motor manufacturors do not make their particular brand of oil. I found this information VERY interesting: http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil.html type this exactly and you should get OIL& LUBRICATION. Scan down the page to THE SURPRISING TRUITH ABOUT MOTOR OILS. It will be worth your time!
Dick	posted 10-07-2002 11:10 PM ET (US) Many good comments so far. The fact that was stated that any engine oil meeting the API specs will not void your warranty is true. Check your owners manual and make sure the oil you are using meets the required specs. At our shop we use nothing but Mercury oil for Mercury products, 25W40 for I/Os and 10W30 for 4 stroke outboards. OMC and Volvo I/Os get Texaco. Haven't seen a JohnRude 4 stroke yet so don't know what we would put in it, but my guess would be Merc 10W30.
Clark Roberts	posted 10-08-2002 09:13 AM ET (US) Merc recommends 10W30 oil for my 115 4s and I am using Castrol GTX and change every 100 hrs (approx). It meets all the requirements in the manual... good enough for me! Happy Whalin'.... Clark
Bigshot	posted 10-08-2002 10:58 AM ET (US) Evinzuki recs 10-40. i do not however agree with the changing over to synthetic after breakin. I have done it with everything I own. I would not break in an engine on synthetic and I hear it might not breakin at all because it is so slippery. Most cars come with a breakin oil that you change out so why not at that point use synthetic. I would not start using synthetic in cars over 70k because they may start to leak. I believe in Synthetic. I do n ot think it wil necessarily make my engine last longer but it is more convenienmt to change every 7k than every 2500, especially when your filters are like $18. As far as the Evinzuki goes....get a Fram for a Suzuki Samurai for $3 and stay away from the dealer.
dgp	posted 10-08-2002 11:22 AM ET (US) Porsche, Mercedes and even my VW diesel (sorry lhg) comes with factory fill of 100% synthetic engine oil.
newt	posted 10-08-2002 12:18 PM ET (US) Oil changes are over-rated. I put 146,000 miles on my nissan with penzoil 10-30 changed every 8-10k miles. Once I even went 12,000 miles. The motor was still running strong when I sold the truck. I know two people that went 150,000 miles or more on 4 oil changes with mobile 1 synthetic. 1 still has the truck and it is running strong. The other guy traded his in. I should note that all my miles are highway. Very little stop and go. Forget oil changes every 3k miles. Save your money for a new boat.
RWM	posted 10-08-2002 12:31 PM ET (US) Surprisingly, nobody has questioned if changing the oil every 100 hours is enough. If I were to change my car on that schedule, and assume I averaged 60 MPH, that would equate to changing the oil every 6000 miles. Since I average more than 3500 RPM on my outboard, 100 hours seems like a little more time between changes than I would want. I change the oil in my car every 3000 miles and just turned 200,000 miles with no engine problems or need to add any oil between changes. I'd like to take care of my outboard the same way...Bob M.
Bigshot	posted 10-08-2002 02:25 PM ET (US) bob....for some reason the oil comes out really clean at 100 hours(friend did his). I'm doing mine at about 70 hours.