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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
repower 1988 montauk
|Author||Topic: repower 1988 montauk|
posted 12-09-2002 11:12 PM ET (US)
Presently have 1988 90 johnson. Have narrowed choices to 90 2stroke yamaha and 60 4stroke yamaha. Will I need new mounting holes? Would the 60 4S have adequate power? What prop with 60 4stroke? Boat is used for salmon fishing and total wt. not including passengers and engine is 1350lbs. Want to cruise out to fishing grounds at about 30mph.What is rough price difference on 60-4S vs. 90-2S?
posted 12-10-2002 05:30 AM ET (US)
Hank, if 30mph cruise is the goal then get the 90hp... you will not need new holes with either! happy Whalin'.. Clark...SCN
posted 12-10-2002 05:44 AM ET (US)
I just repowered my 17' Montauk with 90 Yamaha. Great motor really gets up and goes Same weight as John/Evin 70 HP
posted 12-10-2002 09:01 AM ET (US)
Thank you for the reply-does the 90 2sTROKE IDLE DOWN SMOOTHLY(FOR TROLLING)?
posted 12-10-2002 11:29 AM ET (US)
My 90 hp Yamaha idles nicely when we are wire line trolling for striped bass along the Jersey Coast. I plan to buy another one in the spring to replace the 1985 model on my Montauk.
posted 12-10-2002 11:50 AM ET (US)
My 1989 montauk runs great with a 1995 Yamaha 85hp. Top speed 38 mph, with two adults, loaded with gear. Pitch is 15. I troll with a trolling motor, so I can not comment about using the main engine for trolling.
posted 12-10-2002 12:42 PM ET (US)
I know you seem stuck on Yammys, and there are much worse things to be stuck on, but I must comment on 2 points:
1. Four stroke engines are able to troll all day at speeds that often "load up" 2 strokes, if the 2S will even idle down that low.
2. The Suzi/Johnny/'Rude DF70 EFI 4 stroke must be one of the most under-rated engines on the market.
Both Bigshot and I have top speeds higher than those reported here for 75, 85 and 90hp 2 strokes. I could stay with my son's 90hp 2S Merc at 38-39mph all day, and troll at 1-2mph all day. Cruise at 30 is effortless. The question of fuel usage has been beat to death, so I will let it lie.
I have no idea what the carbed Yammy 4 stroke 60 would deliver in performance and "drivability", but the Suzi is a winner, big time.
Red sky at night. . .
posted 12-10-2002 02:56 PM ET (US)
30mph....skip the 60, only does about 31.5 WOT. JB and I get 39+ with our 70's. Key thing(I'll say it) is that at 1000 rpm I burn less than a quart an hour....yes better than 20mpg. Get that from your Yammie?....never. It is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO quiet and everyone who runs with me is puzzled that it is only a 70hp. My 90 yammie which I replaced is the best 2 stroke for that hull in my opinion. The Suzi/Johnson 70 is better.....way better. Resale will also kick ass and you never have to worry about being banned. JB and I should get kickbacks, especially since we have convinced at LEAST 1/2 dozen people to buy the 70 4S over their other choice. So far everyone has thanked us up and down...side to side....bottom to top, etc. They are that happy with them.
PS: NO the weight is not a problem. Yes you can get one for under $6k.
posted 12-10-2002 06:18 PM ET (US)
How much oil does the resevoir on the 90 2-stroke yamaha hold? Any idea how much oil it uses cruising at 30mph and trolling at 3mph?How difficult is it to fill resevoir and can you fill it with the engine partially tilted?Any tricks or tis on making task easier and/or less messy?
posted 12-10-2002 08:07 PM ET (US)
Nick - You should remember to tell people that you are running your engine set back and lifted up, per the transom bracket info on this site. That seems to have boosted performance over what most transom mounted engines can provide.
The Johnsonuki 70 4-stroke seems to be unique in its market niche, at least until Mercury brings out their own 4-stroke 75's, which could be good competitors, and Yamaha improves theirs. As mentioned, it is a quite small, compact package, with reasonable weight, and a good engine besides. Nobody else has anything in this displacement size. It's beefier than the Merc 60 EFI's, and smaller than the Yamaha built 75 and similar Mercury version, plus those do not have EFI fuel management. Honda is a bust in this category also, with big size and no EFI. So the Johnsonuki stands alone.
Add to all of this the fact that Suzuki is currently using an MBA technique called Unsustainable Hyper-competitive Pricing. This is to break into the American market with their new 4-strokes. But this below market pricing probably cannot last much longer. Up until now, they have not been a factor of much significance over here. Even Bombardier/Johnson will drop them in the near future as they come out with their own 4-strokes. So faced with soon to be new competition from the other big 4, this technique seems to be working for them right now. Seems like they are already doing a number on Honda, but the Yamaha/Mercury cooperation juggernaut will be tougher to crack. Right now is their biggest chance, hence the below market pricing.
A question: Is the Johnsonuki selling for more than Suzuki's own branding?
posted 12-10-2002 08:21 PM ET (US)
"30mph....skip the 60, only does about 31.5 WOT", I say BS BS. If I can get 34 MPH with my 50 HP Merc 4 stroke then a 60 HP Yamaha should at least be able to do 36 MPH. Someone on this site has a Montauk with a Merc 60 EFI four stroke; perhaps he'll add his performance numbers.
posted 12-10-2002 08:27 PM ET (US)
If you are looking at a weighted boat when you go fishing and need lots of torque and fuel mileage then you could also consider a 75 FICHT Evin/Bombardier. I think I might be the only one here with one of these but so far I am super impressed. Very low oil consumption, unmentionable power and top speed of 38mph with the motor on the transom. Also uses same mounts as your current engine.
Had 5 adults in the boat this weekend, 20 gallons fuel and still ran 36mph WOT. Runs smooth as silk too at idle of any speed.
Not trying to start a debate, but the price is not bad on the 75 either, low 5's with 4-stroke economy and more torque. In the V-4's the FICHT motors have been good engines. Other +++'s....
Best warranty of any engine with full coverage for 2 years.
20amp alternator for the most amount of electrical power of any engine in the mid-range class.
I have my 1 gallon oil tank and battery underneath my Montauk console. Goes a few tanks of fuel (20 gal. tanks) on 1 tank of oil, gives you the best of all worlds.
I was considering the Yammie 90hp too, but in 5-10 years those engines will not be so popular on re-sale because of fuel economy (which isn't bad) and lack of EFI, emissions, and other options.
I would put this at the top of list tied with the Evin/Suzuki 4-stroke.
posted 12-10-2002 08:46 PM ET (US)
Tully- The warranty on yor engine is 3 years-non declining. Hope to scoot over and see it soon!
posted 12-11-2002 10:42 AM ET (US)
Sorry lhg....I do have a jack plate but am running an alum prop. JB does not have a plate(I believe) and runs a SS prop.
DGP.....Boating just repowered a smirked Montauk with a new 60 merc bigfoot. At 6k rpms it did 31.4mph. There is a whole thread on it here. If still not satisfied, get this months Boating mag. I am puzzled by that as well being I know the 50's are running 34ish. I figured 34-37 with a 60. Where with some tweeking I may hit 40. My speed is with 2 people and a full pate.
posted 12-11-2002 11:26 AM ET (US)
I do have a fixed plate, Bigshot. Four inches setback, stock height. Gonna raise her about an inch next time I take her into the garage.
The setback may well improve performance, but that doesn't change my appreciation of the engine.
Red sky at night. . .
posted 12-11-2002 12:33 PM ET (US)
Hmm, Talking about people in the boat, I had forgotten that my top speed measurement of 38mph on GPS was with 2.5 people in the boat. 2 Adults and one very youthful adult. I might get 40mph with only myself in the boat. Maybe Santa will bring this Montauk a handheld GPS for xmas so I won't have to borrow one. LOL
posted 12-11-2002 02:57 PM ET (US)
Jb I am about 1/2" above my drain hole. I can still go higher but I don't want to mess with it, doubt I would get much more out of it performance wise. My total height above stock is roughly 4" so go more than an inch....way more. I have a 5" setback and 5 inch height adjustment. I only have about an inch more of adjustment.
posted 12-11-2002 06:50 PM ET (US)
Sorry, Bigshot, I didn't know you were quoting from a "source", just thought you were shooting from the hip. The slow speed comes from the drag of that Bigfoot gearbox.
For the life of me, I don't understand the boating press' love affair with the Bigfoot; that's a pontoon boat engine! The Montauk's hull's way too efficient to need all that thrust.
posted 12-11-2002 09:15 PM ET (US)
As every one knows I just sold my montauk
with the 70 four stroke suzuki and moved up to 18 outrage with 150. when I had the montauk here are the facts. 37 mph wot
gps with 26 gallons of fuel and me 275lbs
best combo for montauk I ever seen.
posted 12-12-2002 09:18 AM ET (US)
To cruise at 30mph you'll need more than 60HP, unless you don't mind running it near WOT. My 50HP gets 30mph at redline, about 32mph max with the stock prop and 2 people in the boat. I don't think it would go much more with a different prop.
Warranties were mentioned, Honda does have a 3-year warranty:
I love my Honda 50, the one thing that would make me consider Yamaha is that Honda uses a lot of chrome plated fasteners under the hood and they start to rust pretty quickly. I spray it with silicone after every use and no rust after that, just a pain to have to spray it. Except for this there is no corrosion at all after a few years of salt only use.
I'm extremely 4-stroke biased, but if you want to cruise for long periods at 30mph then you may be better off with the larger engine. Cruising at 25mph should be no problem at all with the 60HP (I'm just over 5k rpm at 25mph with my 50HP, redline is 6k). Any chance of getting a 90HP 4-stroke?
posted 12-12-2002 02:53 PM ET (US)
For you Honda guys!
Kenyon powerboats in FL has new 75 hp Hondas rigged with controls and SS prop....ready to fish for $7295. 50hp $5995. 90hp $7995. 130 $9895. 200 $14,995. 225 $15995. Not bad being rigged with everything except tax. #877-928-6372
The Boat Place in Naples has these Hondas, not sure if new or used. 97 90hp $3250. 01 115 $7500. 01 130hp $8250. 02 200 $13500. 02 225 $14500. 239-793-8040
posted 12-12-2002 03:48 PM ET (US)
Nick, with prices like that, Honda sounds like a rich man's outboard.
But anyway, with all the continual talk here about how much HP to buy, I think HANKSAPER is taking the right approach, by figuring out how he wants to use the engine, then buying to fill that need. It seems to me, that for the majority of one's stated use, the engine should be running in the 3000-3500RPM range, since piston travel does count. This is where most outboards are most efficient, generate less noise, last the longest, and still give good reserve power for additional speed or extra carrying capacity. Buying an engine so that your normal cruising range is around 5000RPM makes no sense to me, just like driving your car around all day in second gear. Contrary to what many believe, the smaller engine running at high RPM does not save any fuel over the larger engine running slower. It takes a certain amout of fuel (energy) to push a given boat a given speed with the same generation and technology outboard.
For the application being discussed here, 90HP seems to make the most sense to me also, like many have already stated. For a 20 MPH cruising speed, the 60 would be acceptable.
posted 12-13-2002 09:15 AM ET (US)
Hank: the oil reservoir in my 90 hp Yamaha holds about a gallon. I use my Montauk in the ocean so I keep the level topped off most of the time. I also carry a quart of oil with me. I had to pass one off to a friend of mine one day out there so I took that as a cue. My fill is reached through the top of the motor. But I usually pull off the cowling to fill simply because I like looking under the hood when I return to the dock. Just a throw back to my experience with diesel powered boats.
posted 12-13-2002 09:53 AM ET (US)
lhg...good points and my thoughts exactly. The newer 4strokes seem to be able to run a higher cruise rpm and still be efficient but under 4500 is a must for a steady cruise speed if you want the gas and the engine to last a while.
Nobody ever said Hondas are cheap. I personally think they are a rip-off and that color makes them look even bigger....scary huh. Plus the metallic gold/silver color does not hold up very well unless meticulously keep them covered and waxed. Remember the old champagne colored evinrudes that turned a dark rusty gold color after a couple years? Well the Hondas actually fade to a silver color instead. Suzuki used a similar color and let me just tell you, it is impossible to touch up that paint, it is a total repaint or nothing if you want it to look good. Enough rambling!
Oh Larry believe it or not those are not TOO bad for Honda prices. The cheapest I could find a 90hp (2001 leftover) was in canada and shipped with controls and SS prop was like $6k. So one rigged and ready for $7995(asking) is not too shabby but not a good enough deal for me of course.
posted 12-23-2002 07:55 PM ET (US)
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