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  recomendations-shaft lenghth for 22ft outrage kicker

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Author Topic:   recomendations-shaft lenghth for 22ft outrage kicker
Peabody posted 01-26-2003 01:56 PM ET (US)   Profile for Peabody   Send Email to Peabody  
Will a 15 horsepower mariner outboard with a 15 inch shaft work on my 22 foot outrage, as a kicker motor? Thanks for the reply.
JBCornwell posted 01-26-2003 04:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
It will work with a retractable mount, Peabody.

It might work simply mounted on the transom, but ventilation might be a problem.

That boat calls for 20" shafts for a twin installation, but that puts the anti-ventilation plate about even with the bottom. With a 15" shaft your prop would be in water above the level of the bottom and if you get any speed on it would probably ventilate.

I recommend the retractable mount.

Red sky at night. . .
JB

Tom W Clark posted 01-26-2003 04:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Peabody,

You need a 20" shaft kicker for it to be effective. This has always been Whaler's recommendation as well.

It is cheaper and easier to convert your 15" to a 20" with a 5" extension kit than it is to add a kicker bracket. The mounting will also be stronger and easier to use if it is bolted directly to the transom.

SSCH posted 01-26-2003 08:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for SSCH  Send Email to SSCH     
Peabody

I had a 9.9 four cycle Yamaha on my 22. It had a 20 inch lower unit and was mounted at the transom. The thickness of the transom is a problem at the outer most edges since they are thicker than the center where the main motor is mounted. Mine barely would allow the use of the clamps on the motor. I added a motor mounting board like you would find on a bracket, but bolted it to the transom. I then mounted the motor on the board just about 2 inches higher than the transom top. That solved the thickness problem.

Since you are always at displacement speeds on a kicker, I would try the motor you have before I would spend any money on a longer unit. Whaler's recommendations on shaft length are for motors that will be used when planing, where the boat is much higher out of the water. If I remember correctly, the lower unit on mine was well into the water when tilted down, despite the higher mounting position. When tilted out, it barely cleared the water. A shorter motor would have more clearance when up.

If you didn't already have the 15, I'd tell you its more power and heavier than you need or want. I first used an 8 hp 2 cycle, then went to the low gear ratio (high thrust) 9.9 hp 4 cycle and saw almost no real gain in performance. I'd bet that your standard 15 will not produce much more thrust than that 9.9, but it will weigh 30% more than the 8hp did.

SSCH

PS I used the main engine to steer when the kicker was running. This is only okay for things like offshore trolling where critcal steering isn't needed. How are you going to set up the steering?

Peabody posted 01-26-2003 08:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peabody  Send Email to Peabody     
Thanks for all the replies.. I have not bought the 15 horse motor yet, I was not sure if it would work on my boat.. so i was asking for advice from someone that might know. thanks ... To: SSCH, using the main motor for steering is a great idea, i will use your advice..if that 15 inch shaft will hold without cavating.
SSCH posted 01-27-2003 01:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for SSCH  Send Email to SSCH     
Peabody

I think you'll find the steering okay if you have a lot of room when you use it.

I don't want to mislead you. If you mount the engine to port as I did, it will be difficult to turn to port. I usually would develop speed and then reduce throttle on the engine before I turned the larger engine. That way the thrust is not acting against you while you turn. Once the turn is over you can add throttle back to the desired speed. I did use a dual engine 704 Yamaha throttle setup so that I could control the kicker from the helm.

The reason I went to the four cycle engine was to use the fuel directly from the main tank without having to add oil. That proved to be a real help. It was also much quieter than the older 2 cycle. If you can find an oil injected 15 that would solve the fuel mix problem a different way, with no added weight relative to the 9.9 4 cycle. In bigger waves the higher horsepower can be a help. In normal conditions, I'm sure you will find the 15 overkill.

Steve

jimh posted 02-01-2003 10:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It would be wise to check the pitch of the propeller on the 9-HP and 15-HP versions. Typically the 9-HP is propped for lower speed use, while the 15-HP might have a taller propeller, intended to operate at higher speeds.

I friend who had a 15-HP as an auxillary on his 26-foot sailboat was disappointed with the performance; he wished he bought a 9-HP that was geared and pitched for making 6-knots.

JohnM posted 02-01-2003 09:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for JohnM  Send Email to JohnM     
I am currently (last summer when open water was available) running a 15 hp Johnson 2 stroke long shaft on my 22 revenge cuddy and also am in the process of upgrade. As was mentioned a little thought had to be put into placement of the kicker motor as the clamps barely allowed installation but it fit. Shaft length seemed ok but the steady whine of the 2 stroke running at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle is very tiring on the ears after several hours of trolling. The wot with the 15 hp was 5 mph on flat water and going into a stiff breeze would about put me at a standstill. Plus, the smoke factor could be hard to deal with at times. I plan on putting a 4 stroke kicker on it for the upcoming season. I have looked at the high thrust models and really have an interest in the new 15/20 Honda which is also offered in a high thrust model. I will be using this as a backup in case the old Rude dies and need to rely on an alternate power source. We do tend to wander quite far offshore on the great lakes and sometimes there are many backup boats out there. Anybody have any experience with this new motor?
Louie Kokinis posted 02-01-2003 10:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
I have a 15 Bigfoot (high thrust), and Jim is correct about the motor being pitched wrong for some applications. I found that the stock prop was too fast for Salmon trolling so we had the pitch dropped by 2 inches, and works well down to .5 mph now. Itís been a while, but I think the reason I went with the Bigfoot was that the bracket was larger - not all would fit directly to the transom.

Sal DiMercurio posted 02-02-2003 12:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I'm running a 15" shaft 15 hp 2 stroke on my 20' outrage, mounted right on the transom, as far to port as possible, as the deadrise allows the prop to be deeper in the water the farther out you go.
This setup works great.
As far as trolling to fast, that 15 should troll at darn near dead stop with any prop, just throttle her down.
I'v experimented on getting as much speed out of my kicker when needed.
I'v found, by putting as much weight as far forward as possible when traveling on the kicker, it keeps the boat from squating & i'm able to get her up to 9 - 10 mph.
By forcing the boat to stay level with the weight in the bow really makes a big difference.
As far as changing shaft lengths, your looking at about $500.......far more then a bracket.
Sal
Louie Kokinis posted 02-02-2003 03:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
The long shaft has over 12 inches of motor below the hull it does not come out of the water (even in very sloppy conditions). I should also clarify my comment about trolling slow. My problem was that at slow speeds, there was little to no throttle control Ė especially trolling with the current. Another reason we de-pitched? the prop was so that the motor can work at a higher rpm allowing it to charge the system better (it doesnít charge well at low rpms).

I donít know the 20ís waterline length, but the 22 is 19.5 feet with a minimum requirement of 85 HP (numbers should be lower for the 20). My understanding is that no motor less than 85 hp will plane the boat, and the boats max displacement speed should equal 1.34 times the square of the waterline length Ė the 22ís max displacement speed should not theoretically exceed 6 mph. Our motor will now troll comfortably at 1.8 Ė 2.4 (usual trolling speed) all day without lugging, charge the system properly, and still allow the boat to have enough range in the throttle so that we have some control at slower speeds.

I think the 9.9 would still do a great job, and feel the only real difference in shaft lengths will be that the shorter one may grab air (ventilate?) sometime in sloppy water.

Peabody posted 02-02-2003 08:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peabody  Send Email to Peabody     
Thanks everyone, What I really wanted the 15 Hp motor for was just to get back to the ramp from about 15 to 20 miles offshore in case of a breakdown. I do not intend to troll with this motor. The reason for 15 Hp motor is that a friend of a friend has one for sale. Its a 1986 mariner, He's asking 300.00 for the motor. I thought that would be a good back up motor, if i could use it!!
Peabody posted 02-02-2003 08:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peabody  Send Email to Peabody     
This motor only has less than 10 hours on it and was in the garage. But if it cavatates too much i can't use it. Thanks again
Louie Kokinis posted 02-02-2003 09:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Peabody

I would suggest a spare VHF, EPIRB, and or Sea Tow membership is a better way if youíre not going to be using the motor for anything else.

Returning 20 miles (even in calm conditions) will probably be closer to 25 once you calculate for the distance you are traveling over swells, and your SOG will be greatly reduced if any type of wind or current are opposing your heading.

logan posted 02-11-2003 01:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for logan  Send Email to logan     
on the issue of using the main motor to turn when on the kicker. you can get a shaft with ball joints on each end that turn the kicker when you turn your main.
lhg posted 02-11-2003 03:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
People should watch themselves with these Sea Tow operators. If there is anyway your tow can be deemed a salvage operation (saving your boat from damage), they can and will sue you for a percentage of the value of your boat, under US Amiralty Law. That's where the real money is, and how they stay in business. There was a big expose' on this in a recent boating magazine. Beware of Sea Tow & others like them! I stay away from them.
Bigshot posted 02-11-2003 03:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
SeaTow is great unless you are grounded or in peril etc. Being offshore and broken down is no reason for salvage. Be careful and make sure you ask before throwing them a line.

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