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Author Topic:   Evinrude E-TEC
whalerron posted 02-11-2003 08:44 AM ET (US)   Profile for whalerron   Send Email to whalerron  
I just got an email from Evinrude and tomorrow night (2/12) they are going to announce some new outboard technology on their website. Do you have any idea what this new technology is? The only thing I can think of is some kind of electric motor.

-ron

JBCornwell posted 02-11-2003 09:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
My guess is that it will be rotary, maybe DI.

Back in the 70s, OMC took me for a ride with a prototype 35HP Wankel rotary, based on their snowmobile engine. It was small, potent but very noisy.

Bombardier knows a lot more about rotary engines than OMC knew in the 70s.

Recently there have been some spyphotos of Bomb. testing an engine that looked like about 50hp. That fits a two rotor Wankel, but the Wankel would be more on the order of 100 to 150hp in that size.

They are known to be working on DI twins and triples based on the great OMC loopers, but I wouldn't think that would fit the "new technology" they claim.

Red sky at night. . .
JB

kglinz posted 02-11-2003 10:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for kglinz  Send Email to kglinz     
It could be a offshoot of Bombardiers new PWC engine which is a 1494cc, supercharged 4 stroke putting out 185 HP. It's a 3 cylinder can't weight much.
Dick posted 02-11-2003 11:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
I wouldn't think that Bombardier would be building anything new based on J&Es antiquated technology. I would suspect that they would be using their highly succesfull Rotax engine division for the technology.
Dick
Bigshot posted 02-11-2003 11:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Maybe that new "steam jet"....I want one.
weekendwarrior posted 02-11-2003 12:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for weekendwarrior  Send Email to weekendwarrior     
A wankel would be neat! You get a lot of HP per displacement (wasn't the Mazda RX7 a 1.6L 255HP twin rotor motor?). I could be wrong, but I thought that wankle engines weren't the most efficient or emmisions friendly motors. Maybe more R&D can fix that!?

Here's a stretch; I wonder if it's a fuel cell powered electric?

whalerron posted 02-11-2003 01:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
I was wondering about the hydrogen fuel cell idea. If I remember correctly, an electric motor has a flat horsepower curve. That means the engine would have one heck of a holeshot.
Bigshot posted 02-11-2003 01:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Wankel are very fuel inefficient for their size. Back in the early 80's the original style RX-7 with like 95hp only got like 18mpg from an 88CI engine. They do however produce a boatload:) of HP in a small package. OMC made them in the early 70's for research but the oil embargo put the axe on it. I have said for years a wankel would be cool and they like to rev high.

I hear that electric engines produce max torque at "0" Rpms....not a scientist so don't ask but it is supposably true.

Sal DiMercurio posted 02-11-2003 05:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I recieved the same e-mail from Evinrude.
Kinda got us thinking here.
Sal
lhg posted 02-11-2003 06:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
The announcement must have something to do with the Miami boat show opening on the 13th.

They know Suzuki is going to be introducing new 4-strokes, and that Mercury is showing the new small displacement supercharged 2.6 liter 250HP 4-stroke, the most powerful to date. So maybe this is their way to capture some badly needed press.

My guess it's the next generation of Evinrude Ficht, which they are now calling simply D.I. For some time they have been hinting about improvements in this technology. All that Evinrude sells is Ficht engines, not conventional 2-stroke or 4-stroke.

Sal DiMercurio posted 02-12-2003 01:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
IHG, i got some inside info on the FICHT.
They are staying with the FICHT engine, just calling it DI, not FICHT, no changes to the engines, just tighter tolorances.
But don't know anything about this new type engine.
Sal
JBCornwell posted 02-12-2003 07:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Saw a post on another forum by an apparently knowledgable person associated with the Miami show.

He said: Not rotary, not 4 stroke. He said it will be called "E-Tech" or something like that. Very quiet, uses 1 gal oil in 300 hours (!) and quiet as a 4 stroke.

He also said it will be small engines at first, big engines later.

We will get the scoop today.

Red sky at night. . .
JB

Swellmonster posted 02-12-2003 10:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Swellmonster  Send Email to Swellmonster     
* They will be called E-tec or E-tech

* 300 hrs before first service

* 1 gallon of oil per 100 hours

* 2-stroke with sound shield - very quiet

* Fuel efficiency just as good or better than 4-stroke and 2-stroke DI technology

* Small motors introduced first, then the bigguns

* OBs to be shown at the Miami boat show on Wednesday, Feb 12, 2003

I'm all for Bomb to succeed with OBs ... but c'mon ... who's kidding who??

lhg posted 02-12-2003 01:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
So, if it's still 2-stroke, as I said, it's just another form of DFI for small engines, with a new name? We all know they are desperate to unload the "ficht" moniker.

Evinrude's new catalog does nothing but rave about how 2-strokes are a superior engine to any 4-stroke. My guess is that Mercury's new 4-stroke technology has them un-nerved. And they desperately need clean small engines, as buying engines from Suzuki is a dead end. Currently, all they are doing is helping Suzuki build market share and profits. Once accomplished, the Japanese will pull the plug on them, and they know it.

Mercury and Suzuki's new offerings will be getting all the attention at the Miami show, so a perfectly timed press release like this may help divert some interest over to them.
Just like it's doing here!

nvrtoomanyboats posted 02-12-2003 04:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for nvrtoomanyboats  Send Email to nvrtoomanyboats     
Here's your answer guys:

BOMBARDIER BEGINS A NEW ERA
IN THE OUTBOARD INDUSTRY
WITH THE E-TEC TECHNOLOGY

Miami Beach, Florida, February 12, 2003 – Bombardier Recreational Products today launched its Evinrude® E-TEC™ technology, the first Bombardier-engineered and built marine outboard engines. The first of a new generation of engines, E-TEC will deliver cleaner, quieter and more efficient power than current industry offerings while delivering signature Evinrude performance. Evinrude E-TEC engines are very different from any outboards from the past.

“Today, we begin a new era in the outboard engine industry,” said Roch Lambert, vice president and general manager, Boats and Outboard Engines Division. “We are launching a new outboard engine technology developed combining the technical capabilities of the Evinrude engineering experts with Bombardier's innovative know-how and management discipline. The result will begin a change in the paradigm of outboard engines.”

“Assumptions about what an outboard engine can accomplish and what today’s more environmentally-conscious world expects from an outboard, will begin to change forever,” added Lambert. “This technology is years beyond 2-stroke, 4-stroke or even direct injection. I am proud to say that Evinrude E-TEC should become the industry’s first complete CARB 3-Star rated outboard engine line.”

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) governs emissions in California, the toughest in North America. Three-star or “Ultra-Low Emission” is one of CARB’s highest ratings.

Evinrude E-TEC is an entirely new “engine system” that takes the best of existing outboard technologies, and leverages Bombardier’s world leading engineering expertise to create a whole new generation of internal combustion engine technology. E-TEC engines will be the first outboard engines to require no scheduled dealer maintenance for three years. E-TEC will initially be available in 40-, 50-, 60-, 75- and 90-horsepower models. By model year 2005, the entire Evinrude line will feature E-TEC. Because of the compact size and reduced weight of these engines, boat builders will have more options in the way they build their transoms, and consumers will have more options in powering their boats.

Bombardier has long been known for its ability to reinvent transportation technologies. In 1968, the company invented the sit down personal watercraft. In 1995, Bombardier introduced a new regional jet aircraft which generated a fundamental shift in commercial aviation. In 2002, Bombardier opened an untapped market segment in the all-terrain industry with the introduction of the only ATV specially-designed for two riders, the Traxter® MAX.

Bombardier continues to offer its 3-year non-declining limited warranty on all Bombardier-built Evinrude outboards, including E-TEC.

Bombardier Recreational Products designs, develops, builds, distributes and markets utility vehicles, Rotax® engines, Ski-Doo“ and Lynx“ snowmobiles, Bombardier™ ATVs, Sea-Doo“ watercraft and sport boats as well as Evinrude“ and Johnson“ outboard engines and Ficht“ direct fuel injection and E-TEC™ technology.

Bombardier Inc., a diversified manufacturing and services company, is a world leading manufacturer of business jets, regional aircraft, rail transportation equipment and motorized recreational products. It also provides financial services and asset management in business areas aligned with its core expertise. Headquartered in Montréal, Canada, the Corporation has a workforce of some 80,000 people in 24 countries throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia-Pacific. Its revenues for the fiscal year ended Jan. 31, 2002 stood at $21.6 billion Cdn. Bombardier trades on the Toronto, Brussels and Frankfurt stock exchanges (BBD, BOM and BBDd.F).


kglinz posted 02-12-2003 05:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for kglinz  Send Email to kglinz     
Looks fairly standard. [See the Bombardier website for complete pictures of E-tec models]
smgrogue posted 02-12-2003 05:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for smgrogue  Send Email to smgrogue     
I just happened to be talking with a Bomb tech rep today and asked about the new E-Tech motors off-handedly. Here are some specs he gave me:

75 and 90 hp motors; 3 cylinders; 79 cubic inches displacement; 305 lbs

40, 50 and 60 hp motors; 2 cylinders; 52 cubic inches displacement; 235 lbs

He said that they idle at 500 rpms and are deathly quiet. He also mentioned that they use different injectors than the FICHT motors. Apparently they have been running them for over a year in testing and they are "truly awsome" motors.

lhg posted 02-12-2003 05:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
As I thought, it's just new corporate "spin" on their redesigned, and now renamed, Ficht system, which they have been rumored to be working on for some time. With no Evinrude Fichts yet achieving 3 star ratings, this improvement would be mandatory. This should bring Evinrudes up to the EXISTING Mercury 135 Optimax level of emissions, and many of the 4-strokes, most brands.

So it's clear, they are staying (gambling) with clean 2-stroke technology for the mid range engines, instead of 4-stroke EFI like all of the others are doing. That makes it a 4 to 1 gamble.

Lately, I've not been sure the French know what they're doing, and now I wonder if the French-Canadians do also.

I love the way it's worded "this technology is beyond...4 stroke and EVEN direct injection". Since when is 4-stroke so out of date and inferior to DFI. Just ask Mercury about their new in-line 6. My Caddy Northstar seems to run OK also.

dgp posted 02-13-2003 02:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
It appears that they have abandoned the Ficht process in favor of the Orbital Combustion Process, Hyperlink . This is the stratifying, or layering, process of the fuel/air mixture that has been used successfully by Mercury (Optimax), Tohatsu/Nissan and Bombardier PWCs.
Sal DiMercurio posted 02-13-2003 04:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Since 2001, the FICHT engines have had a 4 star rating per emissions.
Evinrude is the cleanest running 2 stroke alive, also cleaner then the 4 strokes.
I don't know where you guys get your info.
Just recently, the emission control allowed Mercs to run on Lake Tahoe.
The only 2 stroke outboard allowed for the previous years were FICHT only, & their still much cleaner then merc.
Sal
gss036 posted 02-13-2003 07:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for gss036  Send Email to gss036     
I just happened to be by the local dealer today and asked about the new engines. The comment I got was, you know as much about it as I do. The owner said he was hoping to go to the factory in a few weeks for updated training,! whatever that was worth.
masbama posted 02-13-2003 08:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
I am excited! This can only help the outboard industry. At least they are trying and if this is half of what they claim it will be better for all of us.
jimh posted 02-13-2003 09:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
This sounds like a ticklish marketing situation. If E-TEC is just a new name for Ficht, I guess they want to keep that low-key. On the other hand, if E-TEC is something new, they don't want to trash the Ficht technology since they are still selling it in the higher horsepower ranges.

I am confused by all the PR and "background" info. If E-TEC is new, not derived from Ficht, I wish they would just clearly state that.

[Changed TOPIC; was "Outboard: Not a 2 stroke, not a 4 stroke, not DFI. What is it?"]

jimh posted 02-14-2003 12:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Sorry for long URI. See interesting patent information here:

Hyperlink

Salmon Tub posted 02-14-2003 01:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Salmon Tub  Send Email to Salmon Tub     
Read most of the Patent stuff, looks like it centers around a sensor that monitors the actual combustion rather the before or after. As for the lubrication process, that is different, I have often been told that conventional 2-strokes, with premix, the 50:1 ratio was based on WOT and too much oil for mid-range to idle running, Oil injection helped, but still supplied more oil than needed in most cases. With this independent oil delivery system, it looks like they trimmed alot of that excess "fat".
John from Madison CT posted 02-14-2003 06:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for John from Madison CT  Send Email to John from Madison CT     
Just as I thought, Bombadier is trying to dumb the Ficht label as quickly as possible.

Nothing new here worth all the hoopla.

John from Madison, CT

Peter posted 02-14-2003 07:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I understand the patent is directed to a combustion control system for an engine having at least two cylinders wherein it adjusts the air/fuel mixture to a "non-sense" cylinder based on combustion monitoring of, and adjustment of the air/fuel mixture to a reference cylinder. This operates on the principal that all cylinders are equal and what is good for one is good for all. It's a way to economize on the sensing and control system.

I doubt the timing of the issuance of the patent in November 2002 is related to the E-tec announcement. Once they had the patent application on file in 2000, they would or should have been pushing ahead with commercialization/implementation, particularly when they were having problems with Fichts. They could have commercialized or implemented up to a year prior to the filing. Based on the application filing date, the work leading up to this patent application would have been done during the OMC era.

I note that there is some interesting discussion about the cause of soot formation at low engine speeds which I understand was a problem with early Fichts.

jimh posted 02-19-2003 11:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Also see this concurrent thread for more discussion of the Evinrude E-tec engine:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001386.html

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