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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
|Author||Topic: Evinrude E-TEC|
posted 02-11-2003 08:44 AM ET (US)
I just got an email from Evinrude and tomorrow night (2/12) they are going to announce some new outboard technology on their website. Do you have any idea what this new technology is? The only thing I can think of is some kind of electric motor.
posted 02-11-2003 09:24 AM ET (US)
My guess is that it will be rotary, maybe DI.
Back in the 70s, OMC took me for a ride with a prototype 35HP Wankel rotary, based on their snowmobile engine. It was small, potent but very noisy.
Bombardier knows a lot more about rotary engines than OMC knew in the 70s.
Recently there have been some spyphotos of Bomb. testing an engine that looked like about 50hp. That fits a two rotor Wankel, but the Wankel would be more on the order of 100 to 150hp in that size.
They are known to be working on DI twins and triples based on the great OMC loopers, but I wouldn't think that would fit the "new technology" they claim.
Red sky at night. . .
posted 02-11-2003 10:54 AM ET (US)
It could be a offshoot of Bombardiers new PWC engine which is a 1494cc, supercharged 4 stroke putting out 185 HP. It's a 3 cylinder can't weight much.
posted 02-11-2003 11:24 AM ET (US)
I wouldn't think that Bombardier would be building anything new based on J&Es antiquated technology. I would suspect that they would be using their highly succesfull Rotax engine division for the technology.
posted 02-11-2003 11:24 AM ET (US)
Maybe that new "steam jet"....I want one.
posted 02-11-2003 12:52 PM ET (US)
A wankel would be neat! You get a lot of HP per displacement (wasn't the Mazda RX7 a 1.6L 255HP twin rotor motor?). I could be wrong, but I thought that wankle engines weren't the most efficient or emmisions friendly motors. Maybe more R&D can fix that!?
Here's a stretch; I wonder if it's a fuel cell powered electric?
posted 02-11-2003 01:19 PM ET (US)
I was wondering about the hydrogen fuel cell idea. If I remember correctly, an electric motor has a flat horsepower curve. That means the engine would have one heck of a holeshot.
posted 02-11-2003 01:25 PM ET (US)
Wankel are very fuel inefficient for their size. Back in the early 80's the original style RX-7 with like 95hp only got like 18mpg from an 88CI engine. They do however produce a boatload:) of HP in a small package. OMC made them in the early 70's for research but the oil embargo put the axe on it. I have said for years a wankel would be cool and they like to rev high.
I hear that electric engines produce max torque at "0" Rpms....not a scientist so don't ask but it is supposably true.
posted 02-11-2003 05:59 PM ET (US)
I recieved the same e-mail from Evinrude.
Kinda got us thinking here.
posted 02-11-2003 06:42 PM ET (US)
The announcement must have something to do with the Miami boat show opening on the 13th.
They know Suzuki is going to be introducing new 4-strokes, and that Mercury is showing the new small displacement supercharged 2.6 liter 250HP 4-stroke, the most powerful to date. So maybe this is their way to capture some badly needed press.
My guess it's the next generation of Evinrude Ficht, which they are now calling simply D.I. For some time they have been hinting about improvements in this technology. All that Evinrude sells is Ficht engines, not conventional 2-stroke or 4-stroke.
posted 02-12-2003 01:53 AM ET (US)
IHG, i got some inside info on the FICHT.
They are staying with the FICHT engine, just calling it DI, not FICHT, no changes to the engines, just tighter tolorances.
But don't know anything about this new type engine.
posted 02-12-2003 07:59 AM ET (US)
Saw a post on another forum by an apparently knowledgable person associated with the Miami show.
He said: Not rotary, not 4 stroke. He said it will be called "E-Tech" or something like that. Very quiet, uses 1 gal oil in 300 hours (!) and quiet as a 4 stroke.
He also said it will be small engines at first, big engines later.
We will get the scoop today.
Red sky at night. . .
posted 02-12-2003 10:32 AM ET (US)
* They will be called E-tec or E-tech
* 300 hrs before first service
* 1 gallon of oil per 100 hours
* 2-stroke with sound shield - very quiet
* Fuel efficiency just as good or better than 4-stroke and 2-stroke DI technology
* Small motors introduced first, then the bigguns
* OBs to be shown at the Miami boat show on Wednesday, Feb 12, 2003
I'm all for Bomb to succeed with OBs ... but c'mon ... who's kidding who??
posted 02-12-2003 01:08 PM ET (US)
So, if it's still 2-stroke, as I said, it's just another form of DFI for small engines, with a new name? We all know they are desperate to unload the "ficht" moniker.
Evinrude's new catalog does nothing but rave about how 2-strokes are a superior engine to any 4-stroke. My guess is that Mercury's new 4-stroke technology has them un-nerved. And they desperately need clean small engines, as buying engines from Suzuki is a dead end. Currently, all they are doing is helping Suzuki build market share and profits. Once accomplished, the Japanese will pull the plug on them, and they know it.
Mercury and Suzuki's new offerings will be getting all the attention at the Miami show, so a perfectly timed press release like this may help divert some interest over to them.
posted 02-12-2003 04:38 PM ET (US)
Here's your answer guys:
posted 02-12-2003 05:01 PM ET (US)
Looks fairly standard. [See the Bombardier website for complete pictures of E-tec models]
posted 02-12-2003 05:03 PM ET (US)
I just happened to be talking with a Bomb tech rep today and asked about the new E-Tech motors off-handedly. Here are some specs he gave me:
75 and 90 hp motors; 3 cylinders; 79 cubic inches displacement; 305 lbs
40, 50 and 60 hp motors; 2 cylinders; 52 cubic inches displacement; 235 lbs
He said that they idle at 500 rpms and are deathly quiet. He also mentioned that they use different injectors than the FICHT motors. Apparently they have been running them for over a year in testing and they are "truly awsome" motors.
posted 02-12-2003 05:13 PM ET (US)
As I thought, it's just new corporate "spin" on their redesigned, and now renamed, Ficht system, which they have been rumored to be working on for some time. With no Evinrude Fichts yet achieving 3 star ratings, this improvement would be mandatory. This should bring Evinrudes up to the EXISTING Mercury 135 Optimax level of emissions, and many of the 4-strokes, most brands.
So it's clear, they are staying (gambling) with clean 2-stroke technology for the mid range engines, instead of 4-stroke EFI like all of the others are doing. That makes it a 4 to 1 gamble.
Lately, I've not been sure the French know what they're doing, and now I wonder if the French-Canadians do also.
I love the way it's worded "this technology is beyond...4 stroke and EVEN direct injection". Since when is 4-stroke so out of date and inferior to DFI. Just ask Mercury about their new in-line 6. My Caddy Northstar seems to run OK also.
posted 02-13-2003 02:54 PM ET (US)
It appears that they have abandoned the Ficht process in favor of the Orbital Combustion Process, Hyperlink . This is the stratifying, or layering, process of the fuel/air mixture that has been used successfully by Mercury (Optimax), Tohatsu/Nissan and Bombardier PWCs.
posted 02-13-2003 04:29 PM ET (US)
Since 2001, the FICHT engines have had a 4 star rating per emissions.
Evinrude is the cleanest running 2 stroke alive, also cleaner then the 4 strokes.
I don't know where you guys get your info.
Just recently, the emission control allowed Mercs to run on Lake Tahoe.
The only 2 stroke outboard allowed for the previous years were FICHT only, & their still much cleaner then merc.
posted 02-13-2003 07:06 PM ET (US)
I just happened to be by the local dealer today and asked about the new engines. The comment I got was, you know as much about it as I do. The owner said he was hoping to go to the factory in a few weeks for updated training,! whatever that was worth.
posted 02-13-2003 08:46 PM ET (US)
I am excited! This can only help the outboard industry. At least they are trying and if this is half of what they claim it will be better for all of us.
posted 02-13-2003 09:32 PM ET (US)
This sounds like a ticklish marketing situation. If E-TEC is just a new name for Ficht, I guess they want to keep that low-key. On the other hand, if E-TEC is something new, they don't want to trash the Ficht technology since they are still selling it in the higher horsepower ranges.
I am confused by all the PR and "background" info. If E-TEC is new, not derived from Ficht, I wish they would just clearly state that.
[Changed TOPIC; was "Outboard: Not a 2 stroke, not a 4 stroke, not DFI. What is it?"]
posted 02-14-2003 12:03 AM ET (US)
Sorry for long URI. See interesting patent information here:
posted 02-14-2003 01:58 PM ET (US)
Read most of the Patent stuff, looks like it centers around a sensor that monitors the actual combustion rather the before or after. As for the lubrication process, that is different, I have often been told that conventional 2-strokes, with premix, the 50:1 ratio was based on WOT and too much oil for mid-range to idle running, Oil injection helped, but still supplied more oil than needed in most cases. With this independent oil delivery system, it looks like they trimmed alot of that excess "fat".
|John from Madison CT||
posted 02-14-2003 06:39 PM ET (US)
Just as I thought, Bombadier is trying to dumb the Ficht label as quickly as possible.
Nothing new here worth all the hoopla.
John from Madison, CT
posted 02-14-2003 07:31 PM ET (US)
I understand the patent is directed to a combustion control system for an engine having at least two cylinders wherein it adjusts the air/fuel mixture to a "non-sense" cylinder based on combustion monitoring of, and adjustment of the air/fuel mixture to a reference cylinder. This operates on the principal that all cylinders are equal and what is good for one is good for all. It's a way to economize on the sensing and control system.
I doubt the timing of the issuance of the patent in November 2002 is related to the E-tec announcement. Once they had the patent application on file in 2000, they would or should have been pushing ahead with commercialization/implementation, particularly when they were having problems with Fichts. They could have commercialized or implemented up to a year prior to the filing. Based on the application filing date, the work leading up to this patent application would have been done during the OMC era.
I note that there is some interesting discussion about the cause of soot formation at low engine speeds which I understand was a problem with early Fichts.
posted 02-19-2003 11:21 PM ET (US)
Also see this concurrent thread for more discussion of the Evinrude E-tec engine:
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