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Author Topic:   Honda 40 vs Yamaha 40 for a 13' sport
geoff posted 02-27-2003 01:14 PM ET (US)   Profile for geoff   Send Email to geoff  
I recently decided to replace the old Merc 40 on our 13 with a new 40 horse 4 stroke. My first intent was to go with a Yamaha, based on a few good reviews from friends in Catalina and So Cal. After starting to call around, I've heard twice so far (perhaps this is old new to the rest of you) that Yamaha had a run on this years model and will not have any more to ship until at least mid year. Both dealers did recommend the Honda 40 4-stroke instead, and one even he felt it to be a slightly superior 4-stroke, even though Yamaha was also a great engine.
Are there any general opinions on this? I'm guessing that both are very good engines and will serve us well for many years to come. We just want to know if there is any overwhelming reason to wait for a Yamaha because of our intended usage, whaler size, mechanics, etc.

It's a 1982 13' sport with a 12 gallon tank mounted under the rear bench seat. We mostly use it as a tender, cocktail cruiser, etc, but do like to occassionally get it up on a plane around San Diego bay. I even ran it over to Catalina last summer from Long Beach in the early morning. We rarely fish.

So basically, I want a well engineered quiet 4-stroke thats going to last for quite awhile, doesn't mind being run at slow speeds (with 6 ppl on board), but still has the guts to plane out when our conditions are flat.

Thanks for the help!

lhg posted 02-27-2003 01:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Yamaha's 40 HP 4-stroke uses Mercury's powerhead, but it does not have Mercury's superior EFI system. Nor does Honda.

If you want the highest technology 40Hp 4-stroke on the market today, get the Merc EFI. It will probably cost less also.

JBCornwell posted 02-27-2003 02:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
The Johnson/Suzuki 4 stroke 40 is also EFI and earning a superior reputation. The closest EFI Merc is a 30, and a good engine.

I agree with LHG to this extent: EFI does for a 4 stroke outboard what computer control does for cars.

Red sky at night. . .

Bigshot posted 02-27-2003 02:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
If cruising is your main use....get the lightest one out there. I would seriously cnsider a 30hp for weight reasons. It(30) will probably perform close to what your 40 is now being rated at the prop, etc and that old 40 was not Mercs best or fastest engine, more like a 35hp.
lhg posted 02-27-2003 03:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
As strange as it may sound, I was suggesting EFI, not Mercury. If Suzuki has one, that sounds fine also. They're both black anyway.

My point is there doesn't seem to be any surcharge for getting EFI on these 30-60HP engines, either brand. So why not get the better technology? In the V-6 two strokes, Mercury charges about a $1500 premium for EFI.

geoff posted 02-27-2003 03:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for geoff  Send Email to geoff     
I thought some of you might suggest the 30hp. I looked up Honda's specs:

30hp 40hp

C.I. 30.5 49.3
weight 157 198

So thats 18.8 cubic inches or 62% more.
And 41 lbs or 26% more. I should do cost also I suppose.

Here's my ignorant weight question:
Are you referring to the added weight to the overall boat weight that the engine pushes? Or is the added engine weight a factor at the transom itself? Meaning, I easily throw on another 180 lb friend sometimes, so what should I worry about 41 lbs. Or is it that the 41lbs on the transom effects slow cruising performance?
I was concernced about power, not for speed, but because I don't want to strain an engine when I throw on 5 or 6 ppl at slow speeds.

The reason I've looked at Honda and Yamaha is their 'reliability' reputation I've heard. No one has yet recommended a Merc (except on here), but the EFI design is definitely intriguing, I'll have to read more about it. Problem is, as you all know, is that most dealers only carry 1 brand, like cars, so they are eager to tell you why theirs is superior.

Dick posted 02-27-2003 03:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
I have three years on my Merc 50 4 stroke without a problem.
My choice for the 13 would be either the 30 or 40 EFI Merc 4 stroke. Why they still offer both engines either EFI or carbed I don't understand. Has to be a price issue.


Perry posted 02-27-2003 04:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Honda has been making the 30 and 40 models for a while now. They have proven to be very reliable. They are quiet get excellent fuel economy and are easy to service. The down side to them is that they are expensive and are not EFI.
geoff posted 02-27-2003 05:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for geoff  Send Email to geoff     
I called a local Merc dealer and the pricing for the 30 and 40 efi's were about $300 less than the Hondas. The Yamahas are about $700 more than the Honda.

The Merc dealer was telling me that the benefits of the EFI were:
-easier starts
-more tolerant of bad fuel
-better fuel efficiency

He did admit though that EFI is brand new on outboards, and opening up and cleaning carbs is obviously much easier than fuel injectors. I'll search around this board for any discussions about EFI to see if the benefits are worth it.

lhg posted 02-27-2003 05:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Your Mercury dealer should know better. Mercury brought out EFI in 1987. It has extensive use on their racing and recreational models for years. My Mercury dealer has told me the carburetored 4-strokes are out of date, old technology. Even though Mercury has two, the 75 & 90, he tells people not to buy them.

My 1997 200 EFI's are the most reliable engines I have ever owned. I'm sure that Yamaha EFI owners would say the same. All autos I have owned with V8 4-stroke EFI's are pretty good too.

Yamaha's 40HP 4-stroke engine powerhead is made by Mercury, I believe, so I fail to see the reliability issue (unless they're both bad!). Check the identical specs on both.

weekendwarrior posted 02-28-2003 11:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for weekendwarrior  Send Email to weekendwarrior     
I have a 1999 Honda 50HP which I bought new (same block as the 40HP Honda). It's now on my 17' Montauk and gets year round use. I love it! Performance, reliability and fuel economy wise I have absolutely zero complaints so far. It is carbed so you do need to choke it for a few seconds when cold, but after that it runs great. All I've ever done to it is change the oil and filter, check the valves and spray the power head with silicone. EFI does sound nice, but if you get a good deal then I wouldn't turn it down simply because it's carbed.

My one and only single complaint is this. Under the hood they used a lot of chrome plated nuts and bolts and these rust easily in salt. I caught it right away and now I keep it soaked with silicone spray and this stops the rust. This is my one and only complaint. Silicone comes off after some time and needs to be re-applied, maybe there is a thicker and longer lasting spray out there. Overall a great motor!

Bigshot posted 02-28-2003 11:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
corrosion-x....they make one that sticks like glue, almost.
weekendwarrior posted 02-28-2003 11:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for weekendwarrior  Send Email to weekendwarrior     
I forgot to say, feel free to shoot me an email if you have any Honda specific questions.
boxers posted 03-05-2003 08:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for boxers  Send Email to boxers     

I bought a Honda 40 to replace the Mercury motor that came on our 13 whaler 2 years ago. The motor has worked great. The Honda weighs more than the previous motor(198lbs) and initially caused some problems with porpoising but they were completely rectified by adding a hydrofoil to the motor. The motor is quiet, fule efficient and fast. We paid $3700.00 from a canadian dealer. Here is a link to a couple photos. Please note: the comparison of the weight of the Honda 40 v. Yamaha 30 is misleading in that the Honda 40 appears to be a tank. Consider the Honda 30 weighs 138lbs. In retrospect I may have gone with a Honda 30 or Honda 50 (since the 40 & 50 weigh the same)Feel free to email if I can be of any help.

Link to photos Cc:

ShrimpBurrito posted 03-05-2003 10:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for ShrimpBurrito  Send Email to ShrimpBurrito     
Boxers - was that $3700 Canadian or US? Did that include anything other than the motor? (controls, prop, etc.)
boxers posted 03-06-2003 12:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for boxers  Send Email to boxers     
That included the controls, tach and prop. The Canadian price was around $5700.00 CDN I just sent a Foriegn Draft which is a money order in $CDN. My folks live up near the border in MI. Here is a link to their web site.
weekendwarrior posted 03-06-2003 09:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for weekendwarrior  Send Email to weekendwarrior     
Wow that's a great deal on the motor! At least it's a hell of a lot less than what I paid for my 50 with controls.

BigShot, thanks for the tip. I will have to try Corrosion-X. :)

ShrimpBurrito posted 03-07-2003 10:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for ShrimpBurrito  Send Email to ShrimpBurrito     
boxers - That is a good price. I know this has been discussed before, but that dealer's site says that the Honda warranty is only valid in Canada. Do you know if that's the case?
boxers posted 03-07-2003 10:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for boxers  Send Email to boxers     
The best answer would be "thats why I bought a Honda". I'm not sure if the dealers here would work with you or not on a warrenty issue. The good news is anything short of a catastrophe could probably be handled via mail. Like a faulty switch or ignition part. In all likelyhood this is the type of thing that could come up. Worst case scenero UPS the entire engine back for repairs.
usatracy posted 01-09-2007 09:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for usatracy  Send Email to usatracy     
I am trying to fine out what JUST the powerhead for a mercury 40 hp efi weighs
no starter or anything else, just the powerhead with crank and pistons and heads and block
jimh posted 01-10-2007 12:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
You need to learn how the discussion area works. We do not revive many year old discussions on completely different topics in order to throw in a totally new question.

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