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Author Topic:   4 vs. 2 stroke
britishlanding posted 03-20-2003 07:19 PM ET (US)   Profile for britishlanding   Send Email to britishlanding  
Is it really worth buying the heavier, more expensive 4 stroke vs. lighter faster 2 stroke? I'm deliourios thinking about what the best engine for a 68 Nauset would be.
masbama posted 03-20-2003 08:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
Uh Oh; here we go again. I think we have run this topic into the ground. Bigshot will tell you he can go 39.8745378223 MPH with his 4 stroke Montauk while using a beer can worth of gas the whole weekend while us 2 strokers can go 99.9 MPH using a 90 hp 2 stroke while pulling 12 skiers in wet suits.
(Please excuse the sarcasm)
It is what works for you: needs, price, etc.
JBCornwell posted 03-20-2003 11:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Howdy, Brit.

Some opinions:

If power and speed are your top priority, the Bombardier (Johnson with carbs or Evinrude with DFI) 90hp 2 strokes are the ticket.

If smooth, quiet, economical and user friendly operation are more important, the Johnson/Suzuki EFI DF70 4 stroke has made a lot of 16/17 owners very happy.

I am in the second category and have a Suzuki DF70. I get only 38.555478922 mph at WOT, but Biggie has raised his engine a couple of inches.:))

Red sky at night.. .
JB

JBCornwell posted 03-20-2003 11:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Howdy, Brit.

Some opinions:

If power and speed are your top priority, the Bombardier (Johnson with carbs or Evinrude with DFI) 90hp 2 strokes are the ticket.

If smooth, quiet, economical and user friendly operation are more important, the Johnson/Suzuki EFI DF70 4 stroke has made a lot of 16/17 owners very happy.

I am in the second category and have a Suzuki DF70. I get only 38.555478922 mph at WOT, but Biggie has raised his engine a couple of inches.:))

Red sky at night.. .
JB

crbenny posted 03-20-2003 11:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for crbenny  Send Email to crbenny     
masbama you're killin me!! That was so funny I had to regain composure and read it again!
Bigshot posted 03-21-2003 10:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Masbama.....if you are gonna use sarcasm, at least get the facts straight! It is a THIMBLE full of gas, not a beer can ;)

4 strokes are not necessarily heavier and more expensive. You can get a 70hp Jonson/suzuki 4 stroke for about the same price as a 70 Yamaha 2 stroke....yes it is heavier....BUT.....it is lighter than a 75hp Ficht......and cheaper.....and quieter....and runs all weekend long on a thimble full of gas.

elaelap posted 03-21-2003 02:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
I'm gonna tip-toe in here, because I am very, very new to this stuff, having been a sailor for 45 years and having only owned small 2-stoke kickers in the past...

I just got a new 50 hp Yami four stroke "High Thrust" (like a "Bigfoot," lower gearing than usual) from a client in exchange for work. It's been bolted on the transom of my 16/17 for a month now, and I've got almost twenty hours on it. With a 13" pitch aluminum prop, I'm turning 5900 rpm/30 mph at WOT (with 200 lb me, my 165 lb 16-year-old son, 1000 lbs of junk food and teeth-rotting sodas for my son (not quite), 50 lbs of salmon weights in the bow locker, and 17+ gallons of gas); and at cruising speeds (3200-4000 rpm/15-20 mph for me) I am burning only about 1.5 gallons of gas per hour.

I am very, very pleased with this motor. It is silent at idle and trolling speeds (1.5-2.5 mph), has started up first turn of the key every time, pops my boat up onto plane almost instantly with the motor trimmed down, and gives me all the umph I want or need fishing the relatively rough waters off Bodega Bay, 60 miles north of San Francisco.

Many on this forum feel that my boat is grossly underpowered, and they're probably right if I were going to use my craft for water-skiing, wakeboarding, and/or blasting across calm waters; however, as I've stated in previous posts, this thing is plenty powerful for my use, and actually caused my lad to tell me to slow down for the first time in his nasty, hormone-crazed teenage life!

There are a couple of much more experienced Whaler owners on this site who have used or are using 50 hp motors on their 16/17s...hope they check in with their opinions. Depending on your planned usage, a 50 hp might work for you...but check out 4-strokes whatever you decide -- amazing!

Tony

PS: My motor only weighs 243 lbs, which is nothing on my transom, especially because I don't need a trolling kicker back there anymore, another great advantage of the 4 stroke.

Bigshot posted 03-21-2003 04:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Good point if you want to go light the 60hp Merc EFI 4 stroke weighs the same as his 50 yammie. I would not go with the bigfoot and you will probably get 35+mph. We know why Elealap go the bigfoot(no choice) but wihout it he would probably see a couple moph more top end, I doubt cruise would change much being it would probably only mean he could run a 14". elealap what does that 50 redline at? Did you try the 14"? reason being running 5700 vs 5900 is no biggie but might pick up your cruise a couple mph at same rpm. When I propped my 70 to hit the 5800 mark my cruise @ 3800 was about 21mph. When I propped it to hit 5500(redline 5800), my cruise picked up to 26. These are GPS numbers. here are my numbers to show what the difference was going from a 17 to a 19" OMC aluminum prop, same load, weather etc(same day)on my 1989 Montauk with a new 70hp Evinrude/Suzuki/Johnson 4 stroke on a 6" manual jackplate up about 4 inches from hull bottom.

17': 3400--16.5, 3800--21, 4500--27, 5k--30, 5800--35.4

19": 3400--23(wow), 3800--26, 4500--34, 5k--36.7, 5400--39+.

As you can see unlike a 2 stroke, it totally changed my torque curve and produced some amazing results. These are all GPS numbers, bottom paint, 2 people and a full Pate 27 tank in light chop.

I fill my tank every 10 hours via meter and I roughly average about 1.25-1.5 GPH per 10 hours. I do not run it hard but I am also not idling around either.

elaelap posted 03-21-2003 05:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
As usual, Bigshot, much useful information, and certainly something to try...next season. My Yami is spec'ed to redline at 6000 rpm, and the dealership wrench, who has spent a lot of quality time with newbie me, says that Yamaha wants their 4-strokes to wind right up to redline. I was going to go with a 14" prop when I changed down from the original 15" (only 5300 rpm with the 15), but Dick on this site recommended I try a 13", the same as he was using on his (I think) Montauk with a non-Bigfoot 50 hp. I actually lost 2 mph GPS going from 15/5300 to 13/5900, so your analysis is, as usual, right on target as to top end, and probably would be the same re cruising speed. However, if Yami wants me to spin real close to redline, I'm going to stay with the 13 pitch, at least until the motor's well broken in. I'm fully satisfied with performance; as to gasoline performance, I might be getting even better consumption than the 1.5 gal/hr I estimated above...in fact, I know I am, but was afraid to give my real estimate for fear of being mocked by everyone on this site as an ignorant braggart. I've got a 17.5 gallon tank which I put beneath the bench seat of my Katama, and it's got one of those not-too-accurate floating guages, but I swear to Shell that I've been cruising around Bodega Bay, up to Jenner whale-watching, down to Tomales Bay almost getting f--ked up going over the bar, and out to the weather buoy pounding into 8-12 ft swells, for three and four hours at a time, and when I fill the tank up after each little trip I'm only using about 3-4 gallons! This would translate into close to 15 miles per gallon in relatively lumpy seas with a skipper just learning how to properly trim his craft, during break-in...all of which seems much too good to be true.

Well there, I've said it...now let the mockery and disbelief begin. But guys, I don't even believe it myself...amazing! My boat gets as good gas mileage as my 5.2 liter V8 Dodge pickup.

Tony

PS: I don't work for Yamaha. If I had my druthers, I'd have gone with that Johnson/Suzuki 70 4-stroke that so many here like on their 16/17s. I'm just damn pleased I lucked out, so far, with my little Yami, which was the only motor in town (if I wanted to stay married, that is).

masbama posted 03-25-2003 11:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
Thanks crbenny.
I have the perfect solution. TWIN RIGS! Yes-a 50hp 2stroke and a 50hp 4 stroke both mounted on the transom. The best of both worlds! I dare ya'!
elaelap posted 03-26-2003 01:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
masbama: what fun...but what problems! Let's say the 2-stroke motor is mounted on the starboard side of the transom. According to the two-strokers, its immense power, combined with the portside 4-stroke's obscene weight, would cause the craft to heel to port and spin in counterclockwise circles, spirelling around and around until the boat rammed her own stern with her bow. Careful...this experiment sounds like one more properly conducted by an Einsteinian physicist rather than a mere Whaler.

Tony

masbama posted 03-27-2003 08:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
Give it a few more days.... some one will have a "Drama in Real Life" story to tell!
whalernut posted 03-30-2003 09:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
If I ever nead a New motor for my Whaler, it will definately be a 4-stroker something!! And it will probably have Fuel Injection!! If it is on the older style `16 hull it will be a 50-60 h.p. 4-stroker, if a newer smirk `17 footer a 70 h.p. Evinrude/Zuki. I am totally amazed at the fuel mileage you guys are getting from these 4-strokers and the companies making them keep shedding pounds off of them every time they update them, I think we all win in this race for the ultimate 4-stroker. That being said, I can`t beleive the weight of the Honda`s still, I don`t know how they compete and their prices-UGH!! Jack.

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