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Author Topic:   22-Outrage WD performance
Barry posted 05-02-2003 11:22 PM ET (US)   Profile for Barry   Send Email to Barry  
Well, I had my 1988 22-Outrage Whaler Drive with twin 1988 Johnson 150s out this last weekend. This was only our second time out, the first being a quick shake-down run last fall right after I got her. I worked on her all winter and still have lots to do, but was anxious to get her in the water and since the weather was great, decided to take her to the lake.

Here are a few pictures:
1. At the dock members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/5-2atdock.jpg
2. The dog and my daughter in the bow members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/5-2bow.jpg
3. The boys members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/5-2helm.jpg
4. Looking astern members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/5-2astern.jpg
5. The fish! members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/5-2astern.jpg

I've got a few performance related questions. First, here are some numbers (speeds measured on my handheld GPS): ~24mph @ 2500rpm, 28 @ 3000, 32 @ 3500, 36 @ 4000, ~40 @ 4500, and 44 @ 5000 (WOT).

The props are OMC SST 15 x 19 in good condition. The bottom was painted but a good portion has been removed. The engines are 25" shafts and even though they are mounted as high as possible they still look a little low to me. The only option in terms of raising them would be to add a pair of jackplates on the Whaler Drive. The boat had a little less than half a tank, but since it has the large tank, that is still about 70 gallons. The lake was fairly calm. The engines have been decarbed. I haven't changed plugs yet and haven't tested compression.

The boat and engines run great and this is a hugh difference compared to my Montauk. Instead of avoiding wakes I was looking for them!

Should I move down to 15x17s to get the rpms up? Should I consider Doel-Fins?

Thanks,
Barry

Barry posted 05-02-2003 11:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
The fish! members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/5-2fish.jpg . And no, that wasn't the bait.
DIVE 1 posted 05-02-2003 11:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Barry,
Is your WOT supposed to be 5000-5500 RPMs?
Does the bow seem too high at low speeds?
Jim
Sal DiMercurio posted 05-03-2003 12:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Those engines need 5,500 rpms.
The very first thing I would do is get rid of those 15 diameter props & get a pair of s/s 14.25 x 17 Stilettos, this should put you real close to 5,500 rpms.
I feel your engines aren't putting out as they should, because they shouldn't have any trouble twisting 19" of pitch, but evidently they are.
I don't recommend jack plates for the bracket.
Did you do a compression test on them ?
They should be in the low to mid 90 psi but within 8 lbs of each other.
If your running champion plugs in them, try NGKs, as i'v found those 150s prefer the NGKs, gap them at .030
Did you trim the engines out as far as possible at wot while checking the rpms?
Those engines are 15 years old, do the plug wires & coils look nice & new?
How many hours on the engines?
I'd say that boat should push 46 - 50 mph
Are the engines counter rotating ?
Sal
kingfish posted 05-03-2003 08:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Barry-

Everything Sal said...

Great shots, Barry - I love that boat!

And a pretty gill - the nice thing about gills that size is you don't have to scale them or filet them - just throw them in the batter and the oil, and eat 'em up! ;-)

When you have the time, would you do me a favor and take some critical measurements on your rear gunwale rail? That looks like an OEM rail from CPD or whoever those guys are in Maine, and I've been trying to get the actual dimensions for one of them that goes on a 22. Over all length/height, rail diam., base diam., base c. to c., straight rail length, various angles?

I'd be grateful for any of that stuff.

Looking forward to more photos-

John

Barry posted 05-03-2003 10:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
According to the manual, full throttle operating range should be 4500 to 5500 RPM. I would prefer to be close to 5500. The bow height doesn't seem bad by the time I'm at 3000. She wants to fall off plane around 2500. The engines are 15 years old but only have around 330 hours on the meters. The use before I got it was all saltwater. The current plugs are NGK. I haven't checked the gaps but the manual says the gap setting should be 0.040".

As I mentioned I haven't checked compression yet although I have checked the throttle linkage. I also haven't changed out the fuel filters. And I'm not sure how old the gas is but I did treat with Stabil last fall and added a bottle of Mercury QuicKleen this spring. The port engine is CR.

Regarding trim, if I try to trim both engines out any more then the boat starts to porpoise. I did notice that if I trim one of the engines out more (from the max. non-porpoising position) while leaving the other alone that I could get closer to 5500 on that engine.

So, maybe compression test, fuel filters, new plugs, and fresh gas before I mess with props?

You can see all of the pictures I have so far here members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/ . One of these days I'll have to add some thumbnails.

Jim, How's the fishing up on Erie? I'm about ready to haul it up and try it on a real lake.

John, I'll get measurements to you in a day or two.

Thanks,
Barry

Sal DiMercurio posted 05-03-2003 11:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Barry, about 3 years ago, omc made an anouncement that plugs for "ALL" omc engines be gapped at .030
The only exception is the FICHT engines which is .028
Sal
Barry posted 05-03-2003 12:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
Thanks Sal! After reading your post I found this chart www.boatsetup.com/SparkPlugChart.html
Sal DiMercurio posted 05-03-2003 05:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Barry, it dosen't say it but the head tech for Bombardier tells me to gap mine & all FICHT engines at .027 .028 because they open up so fast.
On a FICHT if you run 100 hours & they were gapped at .028 they will be .040 in 100 hours, so it's important to either change em or clean & re-gap em.
Sal
Sal DiMercurio posted 05-03-2003 05:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Barry, by the way, thats a beautiful rig you have.
Sal
Barry posted 05-03-2003 06:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
I tested the compression. Port engine numbers were 80,88,86,80,80,80. Starboard engine were 82,92,90,86,82,80. Tests were done with the engines cold. I also checked the old plugs and they were all gapped about .040. I replaced the plugs with new gapped at .030.

I was going to take it out today but the weather didn't cooperate. Cool and now rainy. Tomorrow's forcast looks better.

Sal DiMercurio posted 05-03-2003 08:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Barry, i'd put some 92 octane in to mix with the old gas, plus i'd give both engines a good dose of engine tuner.
Those engine should be in the low to mid 90s on compression, I think after using the Enigine Tuner the rings might seat better & hopefully add about 10-lbs psi.
Heres rule of thumb, if anyone on this board is running a Johnson 150 on a 22 outrage [ under powered ], can they please post & give their rpms at wot, & prop size................when switching from a single engine application such as a single 150 to a twin engine application [ 150s ], it's automatic to add 4 inches of pitch to the props of the twins.
Thats why i'm asking if anyone is running a single aplication.
Still feel those engines should be able to twist a 19 pitch, which means a single should be running a 14.25 x 15.
Are you still with me, or did I loose you ?
Sal
DIVE 1 posted 05-03-2003 08:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Barry,
We have the 15 x 17 SSTs on DIVE 1 and we are getting about 5400-5500 RPMs with a light load or heavily loaded. The Doel fins will help the boat stay on plane at a lower RPM. We have Doel fins and trim tabs, the boat is on plane at 12mph.
The perch fishing is good at this time. They are catching 10-12 inchers off of the Marblehead lighthouse.
Let me know when you are coming up, I might have to sneak out of work. If you want to keep the boat in the water for a few days, no problem.
Jim
kingfish posted 05-03-2003 08:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
(Do it Barry, and send me the GPS co-ordinates of Jim's perch fishing hole!)
DIVE 1 posted 05-04-2003 07:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Kingfish,
You may as well sneak out for a day and go with us. Do you really trust us to provide you with the official GPS numbers? :) :)
Jim
kingfish posted 05-04-2003 07:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Jim-

No, not if you're my kind of fisherman; I really wanted an invitation, anyway - maybe the three of us could play hookey together sometime...

Thanks-

John

RCS posted 05-04-2003 07:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for RCS  Send Email to RCS     
Barry,
I was admiring some of your photos. Are those before and after photos of cleats, lights, Hawspipes? If they are I'd love to know how you did that. Had to be more than just a little elbow grease!
Barry posted 05-04-2003 09:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
RCS, Yes those are before and after pictures. Elbow grease didn't work. What did work was a Dremel with the #530 stainless steel brush followed by the #520 polishing wheel with polishing compound. It still took a lot of time for each item.
Barry posted 05-05-2003 07:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
I was out Sunday afternoon. New plugs, 50 gallons of premium (only $1.37/gal!), and Doel-Fins. Speeds were a couple of mph slower. I'm not sure whether that was due to the Doel-Fins or the 300 additional lbs. of fuel. With the added fuel the tank was about 7/8's full. The Doel-Fins did enable me to get on plane quicker and plane at a lower speed (about 18mph), even with the extra weight. I'm shopping for some 15x17 props.

I did notice that I was taking some water in though the rear scuppers when all three of us were fishing in the back. I could tell because my new bilge pump in the sump was wired up this time and would run (and pump) periodically. All the plugs were in. If one or two of us moved forward this stopped. Any suggestions on what to do about this?

Here are some of the options I came up with:
1. Ignore it.
2. Put a switch on the bilge pump and turn it off. At least under certain conditions.
3. Turn of the pump and pull the plugs.
4. Rig some sort of one-way valve in the scuppers. Although I've got 2 transducer cables running through the starboard scupper. And this would have to be done from the inside since the outside opening of the scuppers is between the Whaler Drive and the hull.
5. Make the kids fish from the front of the boat.
6. Move the batteries (2 @ 45lbs. ea.)to the console. I'm not thrilled with that idea.
7. Replace my anchor line with chain.

Thanks,
Barry

kingfish posted 05-05-2003 07:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Barry-

One thing I can tell you is that your DoelFins aren't slowing you down unless your motors are set too low to begin with. At speeds nearing WOT, your "cavitation" plates should be out of the water; if they are out of the water, so are your DoelFins.

Capt_Tidy posted 05-05-2003 08:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
RE: water intake while stand at the back... I'd say that's normal. My 25 would take on water - a inch or so in the rear wells while I worked near the rear and at any speed was done dry... Althoughthe 22s are slightly different, it's actually the beautiful thing about whalers... no plug(s) required.

Nice library pictures...

DIVE 1 posted 05-05-2003 11:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Barry,
I have 2 more 15x17RH props. If you can find a LH prop, I will loan you a RH to test.
Water in rear sump; ignore it, we always get water over the transom. Put a switch on the bilge pump. We keep a 5lb. lead shot bean bag in the aft well and put it on the float switch as needed.
These problems with your new boat seem pretty serious - my best advise is for you to come up soon and let me help you solve these problems. :) :)
Jim
Barry posted 05-06-2003 11:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
Jim,
I already ordered a "never used" SST 15x17LH off of eBay for $79. In terms of coming up, Saturdays work best for me. Would May 17th and/or May 31st work for you? I've got some commitments this Saturday and the 24th is Memorial Day weekend (although I have no plans). If the weather is good this Sunday I'll probably be back at Caesar Creek Lake trying to find the crappies.
Thanks,
Barry
lhg posted 05-06-2003 03:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Barry - On a Whaler Drive 22, I must disagree with Jim and John on the Doel Fins (engine mounted trim tabs), particularly since you indicate that the engines may may not be high enough. Dragging those things though the water at planing speed will definitely take off the 3 mph you indicate. The entire Whaler Drive unit functions as a huge trim tab, which is one of the reasons WD boats are not quite as fast as a traditional transom. You gain ride (increased hull planing surface) in exchange for top end. I am absolutely convinced that a WD Whaler does not need Doel Fins.

If your engines do not have enough bolt holes to get them up so the anti-ventilation plates are above planing surface, you might consider the CMC static lift plates, which are simply 1/2" aluminum plates, with no setback. These will give you the mounting height you may need.

Also don't forget bottom paint can hurt top speed. You'll never see it on a bass boat or offshore racer.

Don't necessarily trust hour meters.
In my own Whalers, I have updated engine gauges and switched to new hour meters, more than once. None of mine show correct total engine hours.

Finally, as most know, not all 150's are equal. Age, use, maintenance, and (yes) brand make a difference. Just take OMC. The newer 60 degree 150's are much faster than yours, but yet both say "150".

I like Sal's recommendation to get a performance line of prop, such as the Stiletto, OMC Raker or other. These give lift, and on a Whaler Drive model, you need all the lift you can get. The OMC SST props are simply elephant ear SS models. I also agree that a WD 22 with good twin 150's should do at least 50.

I know that a much heavier 25 Outrage with twin Merc 150 EFI's/Optimax's will also do 50.

kingfish posted 05-06-2003 03:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
LHG (and Barry)-

I don't necessarily recommend for or against the use of DoelFins On Barry's aplication; I have never tried them on a Whaler Drive setup, so I just don't (can't) know. What I wa saying is that if the cavitation plate is above the surface of the water at higher speed ranges, (I know this is preferable with notch-transom applications, and I believe it is preferable here also), then the DoelFin will have no effect on top end at all, one way or the other. It can't; it's out of the water. If the cavitation plate is below the surface of the water at higher speeds, then a DoelFin would have a detrimental effect on top end; but I would conclude in that instance that the motors needed to be raised so the cavitation plates were no longer below the surface, and then the DoelFins wouldn't be below the surface either.

george nagy posted 05-06-2003 04:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
I have a 15x17 ss omc prop off my old 1987 150. Interested? e-mail me.
Barry posted 05-06-2003 05:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
I took some more pictures that hopefully show the engine height.
members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/engine1.jpg
members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/engine2.jpg
members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/engine3.jpg

Larry, I looked on CMC's site http://www.cook-mfg.com/ and found a "5 inch vertical extension" but I'm not clear on how that would work.

The least amount of setback I could find on a jackplate was 2-1/2". That was the 2-piece Bob's Machine MJ-5 Convertible Jack Plate.

Thanks,
Barry

kingfish posted 05-06-2003 06:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Wellll, I may have to get out a little of the crow seasoning here...

Barry your third photo is the one that comes closest to showing what is the critical detail, which is the vertical relationship between the extended line of the bottom of your hull and your cavitation plate. When the motor is on the transom of a notch-transom boat, the optimum height of the cavitation plate above the bottom is around 1" to 1-1/2". The desired height is increased on a bracketed motor by a factor that Larry knows more about than I do multiplied by the distance of the setback. On a Whaler Drive, however, it's clear that the situation regarding height is more closely related to a notch transom condition. What I don't know (and the photo wasn't quite clear enough to determine) is whether the WD steps up at all from the hull bottom or whether it continues the line of the hull. I would think that would make a small difference in desired height.

Your motor looks a little low to me, but not all that much. Another thing the photo points out though that I had not taken into consideration (duh) is the fact that with twins and a V deadrise, each motor is completely on one slope, not in the middle like a single. So I really don't know what the correct way to determine optimum height is in this condition, and it's obvious to me that there is a real possibility that the DoelFin might have a hard time completely clearing the water at high speed.

So it's back to the peanut gallery for me on this one...

lhg posted 05-06-2003 07:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
John - I think you're absolutely right regarding engine height vs Doel Fin. It has to run clear of the water on plane. But with twins on a Whaler Drive, you'd have to be pretty high up to clear the Vee of water flow considering the extra width of the fin. I recently saw an interesting installation on twins, with one fin of the Doel fin on each engine, and on the inside between the engines. Quite clever, I thought.

But on a CR twin engine WD, I still don't think the fins are necessary.

DIVE 1 posted 05-08-2003 11:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Barry,
Either weekend is fine. I can rearrange my work schedule on the weekends as needed.
Jim
Barry posted 05-24-2003 09:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
I took the boat out this afternoon. During the last week I made a few changes including performing another decarb - this time using SeaFoam, replacing the fuel filters, and switching to 15x17 SST props.

The initial run numbers looked like this: 25 MPH @ 3000 RPM, 29 @ 3500, 33 @ 4000, 37 @ 4500, and 42 @ 5000 (not WOT). That's with 5 in the boat, everybody behind the console, 3/4+ tank of fuel, and the engines trimmed in.

On the way in I ran it WOT for a little with a couple of kids upfront and the motors trimmed out. I think I was turning 5300-5400. I didn't check the speed. DOH! Later though I remembered to check the Max. Speed on my GPS, which I'd reset at the start of the trip, and it read 49.8 MPH! And the Doel-Fins are still on.

The fishing was even better this time. The kids caught a bigger Blue Gill, a Crappie, and a couple of Bass. There were even two other Whalers running around, a 14-Rage and a 15-Dauntless.

I'll try to verify the numbers tomorrow and Monday.

Sal DiMercurio posted 05-25-2003 12:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Barry, sounds like she's dialed in now.
Thats the speed I figured she would run.
Thats a sweet rig.
Sal

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