Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
  Raised 2 holes

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Raised 2 holes
SeaHag posted 05-20-2003 01:59 PM ET (US)   Profile for SeaHag   Send Email to SeaHag  
given somethin back to all the info on this site... here goes...

1981 20' OR
1993 175hp 'rude
Prop = Stilletto 14/19

Before:
Porposing
5200 rpms max
"v" shaped water fountain at stern while under way
sluggish hole shot
"POUNDING" ride in chop

After:
no "uncontrolled" porposing -
5900 rpm's @ WOT
No V shape = can see some "prop wash"
better hole shot
Incredibley smooth ride in tight chop. The way it's suppose to be!
Much better trim range.

What I did:

Raised the motor 2 holes. When I bought my used whaler, the engine was mounted 2nd from the bottom out of a possible 4. After scouring this site for possible problems and much contemplation on the issue, the process was relatively simple.

I lowered the tongue jack all the way down. Trimmed the motor to where the cavitation plate was parallel wth the floor.

Placed a 2x6 under the keel of the motor. Them raised the tongue jack, in essence raising the motor.

While there was pressure on the motor, I loosened (sp?) the fixed bolts. Cranked a 'lil more on the tongue jack, then loosed the sliding bolts.

The motor slid right up and cranked a lil more to where the holes were in line and placed them back in.

I cannot say how much this has improved everything. Im glad I did this because although I love the layout of the 20' but the ride woulld beat you hard and I was close to selling.

Incidentally the cavitation plate is now 1-1/2" above the keel of the hull. Water temp is okay but I do have to watch it and there is only spin out on tight turns with the motor trimmed high.

Although the method used to raise the engine may not be the best, raising the engine was.

rkong posted 05-20-2003 08:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for rkong  Send Email to rkong     
Do you mean the motor was originally mounted on the 2nd hole from the top? With 4 holes, I don't see how you could raise the engine 2 holes if it was originally the 2nd from the bottom. Or am I missing something?

I curious if raising my motor, mounted 2nd from top and cavitation plate even with keel, would help out too as my Dauntless 15 pounds pretty good in chop too? I thought it was just a whaler thing.

Sal DiMercurio posted 05-20-2003 08:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I'v got the same boat with a 200 Evinrude FICHT.
Started out mounted on the 2nd holes from the top, leaped around like a frog, brought her up the same way as seahag to the 3rd set, ....much better, I might try all the way up but don't see how my performance can improve,....running 60.8 mph now.
I'v used that method to raise or lower my engines for years, makes it easy.
Sal
whalersman posted 05-20-2003 08:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalersman  Send Email to whalersman     
SeaHag,

I thought about raising my engine the same way you did but didn't get the chance until I read your post. Today I did the exact same thing you did and raised my engine 1 hole up..

rkong,
I am not sure exactly how people count these holes. I can only guess here.

Engine mounted all the way down in hole number 1.
Engine mounted up 1 hole in hole number 2.
Engine mounted up 2 holes in hole number 3.
Engine mounted all the way up in hole number 4.

If anyone has any further information on these, please let us know....

SeaHag posted 05-20-2003 09:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for SeaHag  Send Email to SeaHag     
Whalersman,

you're counting is right.

rkong,

no, when I got the boat the motor was mounted on the second hole from the bottom. By raising it 2 holes it is now mounted in the top hole or the 4th from the bottom.

FYI, I found tons of info by expanding the performance section to 2 years, then searching for many different terms relevant to this, such as "raise/ing" "engine" "holes",, etc...

Sal what set up are you running? I have a T-Top that detracts from the top end but I am now where close to 61 mph, granted 25 hp less. I disregard the tranducer readout and would ball park my top end at 42'ish. The speed would help when I need to get home in a hurry.

SeaHag posted 05-20-2003 09:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for SeaHag  Send Email to SeaHag     
My bad rkong,

correction to the initial post and the follow up....the motor was originally mounted in the 3rd from the bottom and by raising it 2 holes it is now in the first hole from the bottom.

Don't know how I screwed that explanation up... Maybe the Muddy Mississippi

lhg posted 05-20-2003 09:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
This sounds like a discussion on OMC engines. With all Mercurys, at least 75HP and up, there are 5 bolt holes instead of 4, and none are slotted. So all the way up would amount to 3" of lift, since the holes have 3/4" centerlines. I'm not familiar with the Yamaha hole patterns.
Sal DiMercurio posted 05-20-2003 11:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Seahag, my engine was a test engine for omc, had 13 hours on it when I got it.
She's putting out 222 hp at the prop.
I'm running a Stiletto 14.25 x 21 at 6,150 rpms at wot.
The engine now has 645 hours on it & less then 4 minutes at wot according to the computer, 45% between 3,000 & 3,500 & 44% at trolling speed, 2.5 - 2.8 kts.
No T top, just a wide open outrage.
Sal
newt posted 05-21-2003 08:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for newt  Send Email to newt     
Sal, is your boat the V20 with less deadrise? I imagine that would make a significant difference in performance.
Sal DiMercurio posted 05-21-2003 10:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Newt, yep, a V20.
Sal
Gep posted 05-21-2003 11:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for Gep  Send Email to Gep     
lhg,
On my Yamaha 130 I have four sets of holes in the top and slots for the bottoms.
On your recommendation on a different thread I raised it to the second set of holes from the top, which puts the engine lip 3/4" above the top of the transom. Thanks for the info by the way.
Mike
NEVER SCARED posted 05-21-2003 01:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for NEVER SCARED    
Okay, Im ready to raise my engine, but mine has 6 bolts securing it. Theres 2 in the middle that screw into threaded holes on the engine. I would have to either drill new holes for these or not use them and only have 4 bolts. Is this okay?
Salmon Tub posted 05-21-2003 08:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Salmon Tub  Send Email to Salmon Tub     
It is Never O.K.!!!

Oh, I meant, It is O.K., Never. Or, Never, it is O.K., Never of course being the shortened version of NeverScared, as I had hoped to answer his question. Four bolts is plenty and probably the norm.

Regarding hole placement,
1st Hole from the top, Second from the bottom, Third from middle less one, going in the upward direction... It is all relative. It is like debating the half empty or half full cup thing. Anyway, even if your bolt is through the upper most hole, it still depends on how far down the hole was drilled into the transom, so duplication is almost impossible. You can bump it up a hole and see how it goes, I have been meaning to do the same, just that I had went a little overboard with the 5200 when I installed my engine, and didn't feel like going in there and removeing it all.

BKANE posted 05-23-2003 06:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for BKANE  Send Email to BKANE     
Ok I have to ask just to make sure I am on the right sheet of music. You are talking about raising the whole motor mount up. When it is done the lip in the top of the bracket will be above the transom edge correct?
Salmon Tub posted 05-23-2003 06:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Salmon Tub  Send Email to Salmon Tub     
Yes indeed. The hooks on top do not really do anything as far as supporting the engine, that is done by the mounting bolts. On new Montauks, the only hang-up, (no pun intended) is the little bit of plastic trim on the upper outer edge of the transom which conceals the green line.
JohnJ80 posted 05-25-2003 06:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for JohnJ80  Send Email to JohnJ80     
After reading this thread, I moved my engine up one hole.

Rig:
Dauntless 15
Evinrude 75HP FICHT
mounted all the way down

Before:
pounded in any chop, couldn't take boat wakes
Trim needed to be all the way down or porpoising
6' high water fountain off back (V shaped)

I pulled the boat, moved the motor up one hole - huge, huge improvement!

After:
+3-4' high water fountain, much less water.

+ hole shot performance approx 50% better

+far, far less pounding.

+ trim range increased dramatically. I can now trim up about as far as I could with my previous motor. (This makes me think that my old motor was down to low too.)

I think I need to go up another hole. I couldn't get there on this pass due to the configuration of my trailer and motor. I think if I haul the boat and use my hydraulic jack that would allow me to get the tongue down to 6" from the ground, I will be able to get another hole.

The rough measurement that i made shows that the cav plate is about 1/2" higher than the bottom of the boat now. I couldn't get a good measurement since I could not put the motor trimmed all the way down with my trailer. I'll give it a try in the water when the conditions are better.

On this position, there is no ventilation of the prop in turns. (I couldn't test at full throttle due to conditions today - too much chop.)

My next pass will be to add a fin - I have ordered one from Grand Island Marine on BW's advice. I am pretty sure that all of this will drastically improve the performance and ride of my boat. I just couldn't believe the difference that 3/4" of motor height made! After repowering, I am now almost to the performance I had with my old motor (70HP 2 stroke johnson with a fin).

Thanks to all for starting this thread and giving all the good data.

SeaHag posted 05-25-2003 09:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for SeaHag  Send Email to SeaHag     
JohnJ80 congrats on the results. It really is amazing what is gained by this adjustment.

Watch your water temp if you go up another notch, as that will be about the only thing that will not be "tangible".

rkong posted 05-27-2003 04:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for rkong  Send Email to rkong     
Using this method of placing the skeg on some wood and jacking up the trailer, I was wondering how you manage to reseal the bolting holes on the transom with silicon sealant? Or do you even bother?

It seemed really difficult for me and I'm not even sure I got a good seal as I couldn't really move the motor off the transom and squeeze sealant in between the transom and the mount. I just left 2 bottom bolts in that would slide up and down to adjust to motor height then when the height was right, I rebolted the top ones.. How do you guys handle this?

JohnJ80 posted 05-27-2003 02:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for JohnJ80  Send Email to JohnJ80     
I didn't bother to seal the lower ones. I just made sure they were tight. There was no sealant on them when I took them out (top ones). Any water that would come in through these would just go into the transome where it would run out again.

The lower ones, I just loosened and then retightened.

Some more results:

The boat still seems to want to porpoise - especially between 30 and 40mph with the worst at 30-35mpg. At 40+ (I can get to almost 50mph per my fishfinder, speedo says 39mph - the fishfinder should be the more accurate - it feels like 50mph)) the boat is pretty stable. I also get more trim range there. I think the cavitation plate on the motor is finally supplying enought lift to stick the bow back down again.

In the propoising range, you can tell that she just wants to go - feels too light in the bow.

I am in discussions with Whaler on this whole issue. They say that the boat is pretty sensitive to vertical mounting of the motor. They recommend that the cav plate be even to no more than 3/4" up from the bottom of the Vee of the transom and never beneath. I think I am even to 1/2" up, so I am going to go up again. They also confirmed my experience that as you go up, the ride becomes more gentle (better).

I still have my V shaped water fountain, but it is lower. At 40mph it is about 3-5' high. Whaler also confirmed that this means the lower unit is too low and that the motor should be raised again.

The other thing that they are telling me is that prop selection is a big deal. Apparently if you get too much torque, it can also cause porpoising. They are investigating prop data that they have and will get back to me on that too.

I was concerned that perhaps the motor is too heavy (324lb 2003 75HP FICHT). They think that is probably not the case, just that the adjustment is pretty critical (height up and down) and perhaps adding a fin. In point of fact, they recommend the 75hp Merc 2 stroke which weighs in at 305lbs.

So, I am getting there, but this is a pain in the hinder having to pull the boat and make an adjustment then put it back. Getting pretty old.

I'm going to put on the Grand island Turbo Fin (requires no drilling) when it arrives. I will advise on what happens there too.

j.

Sal DiMercurio posted 05-27-2003 10:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Hey guys, don't ever put a mounting bolt in the transom without putting plenty of sealer on it, do the sealer after your satisfied with the elivation of the engine.
Don't think for one second that the water will work it's way into the well, it "WON'T", it will soak into the transom & rot it out real quick like & theres no such thing as letting it dry out, because it wont.
When all the adjust,men't are done on the height thing, just pack that bolt with as much sealer as it will hold, then either push it in or screw it in.
Sal
Lars Simonsen posted 05-28-2003 09:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Lars Simonsen  Send Email to Lars Simonsen     
I've been planning to raise my motor up two holes for some time now, but haven't gotten around to it. This post makes me even more motivated to do it. My motor is now on the lowest hole. The top back edge of the transom has a piece of plastic trim (concealing the green edge?) that will prevent the motor mount from tightening up flush to the transom. Is this a problem? On the lowest hole, as it is now, there is a little notch in the motor mount that gives space for the trim piece; the mount isn't completely flush against the transom, but it's close. When I move the motor up, this trim piece will interfere even more. IF this is a problem, do I need to cut this piece of trim so that it won't interfere with the motor mount?
Perry posted 05-28-2003 11:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
I too had the trim in the way when raising my motor 2 holes. I cut it where the motor rests on the transom on both sides and replaced the middle section using 5200. Now my anti-ventilation plate is 1 inch above the v in the hull and boat performs much better.
Lars Simonsen posted 05-29-2003 09:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Lars Simonsen  Send Email to Lars Simonsen     
Sounds like the way to go. Now I just need to get around to it . . .

Lars

Salmon Tub posted 06-05-2003 12:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Salmon Tub  Send Email to Salmon Tub     
Just bumped mine up a hole yesterday. Have not test driven yet. The bracket (hook bottoms) sits 7/8" above the transom, and the cav. plate is about 1" over bottom of keel.

Sal, was wondering, any recomendations on type/brand of sealer? I had 5200 previously, and it sealed well, but may have been overkill, and was messy, both to apply and remove.

Also, am changeing out the support brackets/flanges. had 1/2" starboard cut to fit, but want to change to metal. Any comments? I saw a nice one with the Whaler logo somewhere here, that would be nice.

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.