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Author Topic:   Pitch question for Sal
tomroe posted 06-02-2003 10:29 PM ET (US)   Profile for tomroe   Send Email to tomroe  
Sal,

I read in another post that you have a V-20 and also seem to be knowledgeable on props. I have a 1978 V-20 Outrage powered by an Evinrude 235. What type of prop and pitch is best suited for speed. I am not very concerned about the hole shot, just top end.

Thanks

jimh posted 06-03-2003 12:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
If you truly wish to only get a response from a particular individual, it is probably more appropriate to send him email.

I don't think it is appropriate to post articles which solicit responses from only one person.

It is fine to say you wish to limit the responses to only people who have first hand experience with a particular situation, say only people who own a V-20 model, but I would prefer to not limit participation to just one contributor.

--jimh
Moderator

Sal DiMercurio posted 06-03-2003 12:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Tom, your engine is about 15 years old & probably tired so lets say it's putting out 200 hp maybe a bit more to the prop.
Put a 14.25 x 19 s/s 3 blade Stiletto on it & you should raise the engine up to the 3rd set of holes.
This should get you [ depending on the condition of your bottom ] between 54 & 58 mph trimmed out on 1 ft chop.
I'm able to twist a 14.25 x 21 [ under good conditions & ultra light load ] to 6,150 rpms with an ultra light load, but my engine is putting out 222 hp to the prop, giving me 60.8 mph on police radar, gps, & speedo on 3 seperate runs.
Speed was 60.3 - 60.8 - 60.3 on 18" of chop, no wind, 61 degrees.
On a hot day she runs right at 59 - 60.
I'm sure during the colder winter months with heavy cold air, she should push 62 - 63 under the right conditions,.
Last year during Dec or Jan., a bass boat pulled up as I was heading home from duck hunting just cruising at 3,500 rpms & he kept egging me on to race.
It was real cold for here, like 33 degrees.
He was running a 200 Merc on a 20 ft bass boat.
Finally I put the hammer down & we were neck & neck until I trimmed waaaay out, pulled away about 2 - 3 mph faster then he & I decided to trim into the danger zone & see what she had, the bow went straight up at over 60 mph & you can't just shut her down because you may not come down straight, had to let her down slow but got her back.
Yeh, it scared me cause I was in 80 ft of water, no life jacket or lanyard connected.
Dumb move but beat em.
Sal
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-03-2003 01:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Jim, your right, maybe you can change the heading, as just maybe someone else with a V-20 might pick up a tip.
Just trying to help.
Best.
Sal
tomroe posted 06-03-2003 09:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for tomroe  Send Email to tomroe     
Sal,

Thanks for the info, I'll try it and let you know..50 would make me happy, anything more is just a plus.

Jimh - Sorry, I realized after I posted that I should have changed the heading. I certainly welcome any other input.

Tom

Sal DiMercurio posted 06-03-2003 11:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Tom, what size prop & what make do you have on there now ?
What is the maximum rpms you can get out of it trimmed out ?
Pretty hard to believe your not seeing 50 mph right now with a 235 hp.
What is the maximum hp rating for your boat, [ I think it's either 175 or 180 ]
Sal

Sal DiMercurio posted 06-03-2003 06:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
In case your wondering why I allow my engine to rev to max is, the 14.25 x 21 peaks at 6,000 - 6,150 where a 14.25 x 23 peaks at 5,800 rpms [ where it's supposed to run ] but the 23 hole shot isn't as good as the 21 & the 23 has a tendancy to sometimes break loose in "rough" water such as the ocean.
The speeds are darn near identical, just handles better with the 21 pitch.
As the computer on the engine shows, i'v got 675 hours on the engine with less then 4 minutes at wot & something like 40% at 3,000 - 3,500 rpms [ cruise ] & 55% on the troll at 2.5 kts.
The engine likes the 21 better, it allows her to breath easier.
Sal
tomroe posted 06-04-2003 12:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for tomroe  Send Email to tomroe     
Last year I had a very tired 235 with a 14.5 x 19 3 blade prop of unknown heritage. It ran consistantly at 43-44 with top GPS speed of 46. This winter I bought another 235 that had little use and am installing it tomorrow (painted the bottom with Dolphinite Go Fast tonight). It came with a 3 blade 14.5 x 21. One marina told me that the motor at WOT should turn at 5200 rpm and that is about what the old one did. We'll see what this one turns. A couple of questions to show my ignorance, I thought the engine should sit on the top of the transom, are you saying to raise it up off the transom or am I missing something? Also, how do I know if when the throttle is fully forward that the engine is indeed WOT?
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-04-2003 12:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Tom, yes i'm saying the engine is "NOT"
supposed to sit right on the top of the transom, the top of the bracket that sits on top of the transom should be about 1 to 1-1/2 inches "ABOVE" the top of the transom, it's the bolts that hold the engine on, not those notches on the bracket.
If you look at the back of the bracket, you will see 4 bolt holes going through the transom, the top bolts go in seperate holes [ should be 4 of them on each side ], the bottom bolts go into a channel that slides up or down.
I'm saying to mount the engine on either the second set of holes from the top, or better yet, the 3rd set of holes from the top looking down.
If you go up to the 3rd set, you can't use an aluminum or standard omc prop, you will need to get a performance prop.
I prefer Stiletto because they are the best bang for the buck [ $249.00 ] & make the whole boat ride higher on the water, where a standard omc prop wont do that.
Before we get into props, your going to have to try the prop you have now & report back to us what the highest rpms the engine is turning at wot & trimmed out with a normal load on the boat, then we can adjust the pitch to get the rpms up or down.
If i'm not mistaken, that 235 needs to run at 6,000 rpms at wot, the 5,100 rpms that the marina recommended is wrong.
If you had your old tired 235 mounted right down in the first set of holes & the bracket touching the top of the transom, the engine was "WAY" to low.
Start out in the 2nd set of holes down from the top & try & find a prop you can borrow, preferably a performance prop, even a Michigan Raptor from West marine is better then an aluminum or standard omc prop.
Pay attention to the rooster "TAILS" on each side of the antivent plate, if you have 2 rooster tails which I think you might, that means the engine is still to low & needs to be raised another hole.
Tom, before you run this new [ used ] engine, i highly recommend you run some "Engine Tuner" through her to decarbon her.
If she's loaded up with carbon, your liable to break a ring or scar a cylinder if not decarboned.
Let us know the results of running her asap.
Sal

tomroe posted 06-04-2003 02:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for tomroe  Send Email to tomroe     
Sal,

Well, the engine just got mounted in the second set of holes since I still have the OMC (I think) 14.5 x 21 prop on the engine. I'll see what that does this weekend and let you know. That is if I can figure out what the guy did to the wiring harness. I'm not sure where I can 'borrow' a prop but will try to see if I can find a 14.5 x 19 high performance prop somewhere. And to answer your question before....yes it is rated for 180hp max but Whaler also says it should do 49mph with 175hp. So I'll put more hp than needed on and not have to run it at WOT all the time. Plus it's nice to know you have the reserve speed when the occaisonal bassboat pulls along side.

Sal DiMercurio posted 06-05-2003 07:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Tom, where are you located as I have a 14.25 x 19 Stiletto I could let you try.
I'm 30 miles East of San Fransico.
Sal
tomroe posted 06-05-2003 10:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for tomroe  Send Email to tomroe     
Sal,

That's a nice offer, I live in Northern NY on Lake Ontario. If you want to let it travel that far I can e-mail you my UPS account number for shipping. If not, I understand.

One other question to prove my ignorance on setting up an outboard...what is the proper way to adjust the trim while running? I have no trim indicator.

Tom

Sal DiMercurio posted 06-05-2003 10:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Tom, I will be using it soon for the ocean.
If you were nearby i'd say use it but I'll need in in a week.
The proper way to trim an engine is.
When you leave the dock & want to get on plane, tuck the engine as far in [ forward [ as possible so the boat will get on plane faster, after it's on plane, start trimming out until you either blow the prop out out start to porpoise, then come back down a little till she rides nice & sof as you hit the waves.
The farther in you trim, the flatter the boat runs & the rougher & slower you will go.
Get as mucgh air under the boat as it can handle, this will give you the best fuel economy , the best speed & the softest ride & the engine will work far less as compared to trying to push the whole bottom over the water compared to maybe 1/4 of the bottom.
If you try to get on plane while the engine is kicked back, the bow will go straight up & most likely not be able to ket over the hump.
Sal
tomroe posted 06-06-2003 06:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for tomroe  Send Email to tomroe     
Sal,

No problem, I'll let you know how the engine/prop does tonight. Thanks for the help on the trim. Should I move the pin that stops the engine going down all the way to allow the engine maximum travel forward?

Tom

Bigshot posted 06-06-2003 02:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Depending on the year that engine should redline between 5500 and 5700 I believe. It is not supposed to spin 6k. The 2-thirsty-5's are old cross-flow engines, not loopers like the 87+up blocks. Set your boat to run as close to 5500 with 1 person and no fuel, etc.
tomroe posted 06-06-2003 06:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for tomroe  Send Email to tomroe     
I tried running with no fuel, didn't get very far. Sorry, couldn't resist. It ran at 5200 last year with the engine too low. I should know in a couple of hours.
tomroe posted 06-09-2003 11:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for tomroe  Send Email to tomroe     
What with wiring problems and one cylinder not getting enough fuel (rebuilding the carbs now) the test run got postponed until later this week. I'll report then.

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