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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
Stingray vs Stingray Jr.
|Author||Topic: Stingray vs Stingray Jr.|
posted 06-03-2003 09:29 AM ET (US)
I have been contemplating putting a hydrofoil on my Johnson 50 for some time now. I like the Doilfins because they are small and are less noticeable than a Stingray. But, apparently my motor had a Stingray on it at one time because the cavitation plate has holes in it that match up with the Stingray. I was looking at the Stingrays in Academy last night and I noticed that the Stingray Jr.'s holes are the same as the bigger one. The Jr. is probably 2/3 the size of the full size Stingray so it wouldn't be as noticable. The Jr. says it is for motors up to 40 hp.
Anybody have an idea how the Jr. might work on a 50 ?
posted 06-03-2003 01:27 PM ET (US)
Am I mistaken in my belief that the Stingray has a money back guaranty if not satisfied?
If I am mistaken then I would ask you how much of a problem are you having? If not too much then the Jr. model is likely to do the trick.
My 2 cents...
posted 06-03-2003 02:31 PM ET (US)
I know they have a warranty if they break but I'm not sure about a performance guarantee. I don't like the way they look plus I have heard stories about the cavitation plate breaking so I figured the smaller one might work better.
The problem I have is that my boat is stern heavy. I don't know if it's because the 50 Johnson is on a CMC tilt and the added weight of the CMC is causing it or just the fact that the motor sits back further. Until I get on plane, the bow is really sticking up. It gets up on plane fine if somebody is sitting up front but if two people are sitting side by side, it is really slow to plane out. I have thought about going from one 12 gallon fuel tank to two 6s and keep one up front. I am even considering putting a big bag of sand in the compartment up front. Then , the Stingray is my other option.
posted 06-03-2003 03:59 PM ET (US)
Jr should be plenty. The 40 and 50 omc are the same engine anyway.
posted 06-03-2003 05:43 PM ET (US)
Please let us know how it works out - if the foil has the desired effect. I have the same setup, a 12 gal tank and a 40/50 OMC and don't want to drill the holes unless the benefits are a sure thing.
posted 06-03-2003 06:14 PM ET (US)
Skookum, do you have the same problem with being stern heavy and slow to plane ?
I e-mailed the manufacturer and asked their opinion. If I decide to go this route, I will post the results.
posted 06-07-2003 03:27 PM ET (US)
I just went through repowering by D15. I added the Hydro Lift from Grand Island Marine as recommended by BW tech support. Huge benefit.
Here is the link to the posting.
posted 06-07-2003 11:45 PM ET (US)
Florida, my 15 is a Supersport and behind the seat/storage unit I have a 12 gal tank, battery and oil tank, and on the transom a 6hp kicker. In the bow locker I carry an 8lb anchor with 20 ft of chain. At sea level the boat pops onto a plane readily but at high elevation, 7000 ft, I'm probably only getting 75 percent of the horsepower out of the motor and it's very sluggish to plane. Could solve the problem with a lower pitch prop but I'm wondering if the foil would help.
In addition, I'm replacing the 1987 40hp with a 1997 50hp hp Johnson. There were unexpected problems with wiring because OMC changed the harness connectors after 1995 - but I finally got it sorted out and got everything working in the driveway today. I'm anxious to see how much the 50 will improve performance.
It occurs to me that the Doelfin might work better than the Stingray because the Doelfin foil is positioned in water that hasn't been aerated by the prop. Foils positioned behind the cavitation plate such as the Stingray would seem to be working in water that is more compressible. Just a theory - also why I'm interested in your results. Keep us posted!
What prop are you running?
posted 06-16-2003 04:35 PM ET (US)
Do you have any more info. or pics. of the HydroLift from Grand Island Marine? Is there a website for this product? I'm familiar with the StingRay foil is the Hydrolift the same?
posted 06-16-2003 05:33 PM ET (US)
The Hydro Lift and Stingray have significant differences.
There isn't a website. The guy who designed it is a retired boat designer. He did this thing as a hobby and it keeps him plenty busy.
here is a posted scan of an ad someone put on the web - the ad is hokey, but there is a picture. I would suggest giving them a call and discussing your application.
The Coast Guard and Customs apparently use it on alot of their boats. Whaler recommends it.
What it is a stainless steel plate that attaches to the AV plate of the motor WITHOUT drilling holes. This serves to actually strengthen the plate - its like a steel lamination when it is all done.
The thing has wings that go up 1.5" on each side and work off the dense spray and water that comes up off the transom of the boat as well as the fin that extends straight back from the plate.
It also has a small piece of nonskid on the aft most portion. It is so sturdy that you can use it for an emergency boarding device - you can stand on it with no problem.
Each of these are specifically made for the particular motor lower unit that you have so you need to get the right one.
All of the plastic units flex which, I would think, would rob you of some of the produced lift. I started looking at older plastic fins on boats as I came across them and you can notice where they are many times curved up as you go out from the centerline to the end. I think this is a function of the lift generated and the ability of the material to resist this. This won't happen with the SS Turbo Lift, it is quite rigid.
I used to have a stingray on my Johnson 70HP and there wasn't a huge noticeable difference between that and without. When I added this to my new motor (80 lbs heavier), there was a huge and noticeable difference.
The downside is the thing is alot more expensive - $165 vs $25-40 (a lot, but when you consider what I have into my boat.....). However, I didn't want to drill the AV plate and thought if I did that wrong or it broke (as some have noted) it would be substantially more than that. Also, because Whaler recommended it, I did want to get into another science project, so I went with what they said was good.
What I can tell you is that the results I got were very good and it is a substantial product. It is hard for me to believe that a Stingray would have made as big a difference (but I could be wrong - the other motor I had was different so its not apples to apples).
To contact Grand Island Marine, their phone number is 321-452-8126, they are in FL.
posted 06-16-2003 09:01 PM ET (US)
Thanks John ! , looks like a top notch product, much better than the plastic units that to install require drilled holes. May look into installing one of these units in the future. Once again thanks for the helpful info. and I'm surprised nobody else here had experiences with one of these.
posted 06-18-2003 11:00 PM ET (US)
Me too. I think the issue is that Grand Island Marine doesn't have a retail (primarily a commercial product) or web presence. Clearly anyone on this forum is probably a little internet centric.
Anyhow, I'm pleased with their product and highly recommend them.
posted 06-20-2003 09:51 PM ET (US)
Just a follow up with some of the above posts concerning the Turbo Lift from Grand Island Marine. Called and spoke with them about the Turbo Lift for my application which was for a 60hp. Johnson, year model 1990. Was informed they didn't make units for Jonson and Evinrudes under 90hp. Was quite surprised to hear this as they would loose alot of clientel in my opinion. Was looking forward to trying one of these units.
posted 06-22-2003 10:02 PM ET (US)
It is a small company. Did you talk the guy there? He is the designer. They made one for my motor, 75HP 2003 Evinrude (same form factor as 90 and 115 though).
posted 06-23-2003 04:32 PM ET (US)
When I called to inquire about the turbo-lift I did talk to the guy there, I didn't get his name though. I told him my application and he stated they didn't have any that fits the Johnson or Evinrudes under 90hp, only Mercury and some others.
I don't know if it would be worth a call back?
posted 07-01-2003 04:55 PM ET (US)
Well, just got off the phone from ordering mine.They do make the plate to fit a 2002 Mercury 50 four stroke. First time in the water last weekend after a year and a half of restoration. Since my Whaler is tiller steered I was worried about being too stern heavy. The ride was great outside of a little porposing in chop. Since I'm too chicken to drill my cav plate this looked to be the perfect application to fix it. Thanks for the info. rb
posted 07-02-2003 03:59 PM ET (US)
Let us know how you like it.
Side benefit I disccovered - they put this little patch of non skid on the fin. I took the kids exploring the other day and they wanted to swim. I had forgotten the ladder but they used the fin as a step up into the boat all afternoon (motor off of course). This makes a great emergency boarding ladder too.
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