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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
Who has the fastest Whaler?
|Author||Topic: Who has the fastest Whaler?|
posted 06-09-2003 09:55 PM ET (US)
I have heard speeds in the fifties even some in the sixties but are there any faster? Maybe someone could hold the tittle for the worlds fastest whaler. without removing the foam or any structual changes...this would be fun
posted 06-09-2003 10:38 PM ET (US)
well I have a 1994 16SL with a 90HP evinrude ficht that will do 50MPH thanks to Sal's help
posted 06-09-2003 10:51 PM ET (US)
What is a 16SL?
(Now I understand jimh's frustration with abbreviated model names).
|Tom W Clark||
posted 06-09-2003 11:04 PM ET (US)
See the model index of Volume 2 of the Catalog Collection to find out what a 16SL is.
That IS the name of that model, it's not an abbreviation. I have no idea what Reebok was thinking when they named their first new model. It was short lived.
posted 06-09-2003 11:07 PM ET (US)
The sl is not an abbreviation, the boat is a 16sl Whaler.
I get 60.8 out of mine on the right water.
Yep, Keiths little guy really scoots along & no porpoising,........all the way up on the 3rd set of holes, over reving a bit [ 200 rpms ] but we will correct that by going 2" more on pitch after the engine is broke in.
posted 06-10-2003 12:21 AM ET (US)
If there were ever a horse race, my money would go on lhg's 18 Outrage (or is that OUTRAGE-18 ?) with twin 115-HP Mercury in-line six cylinders on setback brackets. I think it runs in the low 60's.
posted 06-10-2003 09:05 AM ET (US)
My Montauk has been clocked by RADAR at 79.
The MN "Smokey" gave my son a lecture about towing safety, but no ticket. :))
Red sky at night. . .
posted 06-10-2003 10:52 AM ET (US)
TSK TSK Jb.....With your son in the car as well. Go take a time out!
posted 06-10-2003 10:56 AM ET (US)
93 23 wa twin 225 54mph w/ 1/2 fuel
posted 06-10-2003 12:51 PM ET (US)
My son is 37, Biggie, and he was driving.
I rarely exceed 70 when towing.:)
Red sky at night. . .
posted 06-10-2003 01:07 PM ET (US)
I think I'm too late to toss my 50mph 15'_Sport into the running... It does 50mph without Sal's suggested tweakings and raising the engine... I play in the Atlantic too much to tweak it for top speed.
posted 06-10-2003 01:09 PM ET (US)
When towing, towing what?
posted 06-10-2003 01:30 PM ET (US)
Got ya beat JB.
This last weekend my 18' Outrage was doing 80 mph. No cops though!
posted 06-10-2003 02:42 PM ET (US)
Okay, GEP. I give up. But I have the fastest Montauk (so far). :)
Red sky at night. . .
posted 06-10-2003 04:16 PM ET (US)
OK JB, I lied.
I was hitting 85 mph in some stretches. The wind was at my back and we were going downhill at the time. :)
posted 06-10-2003 04:50 PM ET (US)
22 Outrage 250 Merc, I was going so fast that the tear's in my eyes prevented me from reading my GPS numbers, next time I'll wear goggles!
posted 06-11-2003 12:20 AM ET (US)
I saw a 22' Raider get loaded into a C-130 to be brought to Columbia. I bet it topped 180Kts. !)
posted 06-11-2003 07:20 AM ET (US)
C-130's top speed is around 370 mph.
I'll bet that Raider has some good stories to tell.
Longest & highest air under the hull time too!
posted 06-11-2003 01:30 PM ET (US)
So far the "belt" goes to Gep but not sure about John yet. Those tears could be comming from envy. Just kidding John!
posted 06-11-2003 01:52 PM ET (US)
I read the initial post to mean speed in the water powered by the motor(s) that was attched to the boat, and in that category I'm with jimh in placing my bet on lhg's Outrage 18 with twin 115's (more HP than I have on my 22, and that ran 53 MPH GPS before I installed the arch), so I didn't think I was in any kind of contention.
But in the more recent category, I'm a little embarassed to say (but I'm saying it, aren't i?) that my Montauk travelled on land less than 5 MPH into 3-digits a couple of times, and my Outrage 22 has travelled on land less than 5 MPH below 3-digits...still not up to doobee's Raider in the C-130, though.
Old Enough To Know Better
posted 06-11-2003 05:04 PM ET (US)
Kingfish - On the run back from Whitefish Falls, North Channel 2000 Rendezvous, I discovered the 18 was faster than the 25, at least with the 25 full canvas set. I was doing about 58 in the 25, and Jr came by us in the 18 turning about 5800 RPM, and I could not catch up, about the only time the 18's ever been run wide open like that! And back then it was still running elephant ear SS props, brackets down all the way, not the bow lifting Laser II's, up one inch, it currently has. Over 50, the 18 gets pretty "squirrely" with prop torque, turning two high pitch, highly raked (24") non-CR props. At that speed you can't back off the throttles too fast either. Once I did, and the stern scooted about two feet sideways instantly, as the prop torque disappeared. Scared the daylights out of me. The boat really needs CR props, but they are not available with the 4 1/4" mid range gearcases.
How do I usually run the 18? About 25-30 MPH max, at 2200-2500 RPM, engines loafing along.
posted 06-11-2003 05:41 PM ET (US)
The photo jimh has in the North Channel 2000 Rendezvous report of your 25 coming off another boat wake on that same run back from Whitefish Falls is about the quintessential shot of an air-born Whaler for my likes. Not as much air as Tom Clark's 18, but at least as impressive in its own right and a Whale of a shot! I'd love to get my hands on a blow-up of that.
posted 06-11-2003 09:18 PM ET (US)
I saw 48 out of my Dauntless 13 w/ a 3 cylinder HP Evinrude, ~12 gallons fuel and 400 lbs of people w/ the trimmed out for max rpms. I have no doubt that it would break 50 under ideal conditions.
posted 06-11-2003 09:20 PM ET (US)
From the previous post:
The Evinrude I referred to is a '95 3 cylinder 50 hp. I'd love to convert it to a 70 hp. The engine has the same block from what I understand.
posted 06-11-2003 10:57 PM ET (US)
Credditt, to my knowlege, the 60 &* 70 are the same, but not the 50.
There a whole lot more then just changing carb reeds involved in going from a 60 to a 70.
Ihg, I hear you on the back end coming around when you shut her down from dead wot, I can't just back off all the way, gotta do it slow or your gonna be sorry, & it takes a loooooooooong way to come to a stop or even slow down to just coming off plane.
posted 06-12-2003 10:36 AM ET (US)
Johnson made a 3cyl 50hp in the late 90's.....why I don't exactly know.
posted 06-12-2003 11:27 AM ET (US)
My little old 13 ft 71 Sourpuss has seen a best of 51 mph in ideal conditions (slight chop into slight headwind, high barometer, trimmed till the exhaust was out, 6000 rpm) (48 mph generally )
posted 06-14-2003 10:19 PM ET (US)
To BQUIK what kind of motor and horse power are we talking abut here on your sourpuss.. i havent broke 40 with the 40 yamaha
posted 06-16-2003 10:48 AM ET (US)
It's a 50 Merc (4 cyl)(1970) with power trim and a 2 blade bronze 17 prop.
posted 06-16-2003 10:44 PM ET (US)
2 blade props are for racing.
Lousy out of the hole but look out on the top end.
By any chance do you have a tach on that engine, bet your twisting about 6,500 rpms.
posted 06-16-2003 11:49 PM ET (US)
That makes me wonder, what's the fastest anyone has run a classic hull that wasn't overpowered?
The Outrage 18 is a real performer with a 2 stroke 150, I think that high 40s is typical for those. Probably one the fastest of the true classics would be the original 70's outrage 19. I think that they were rated for around 180-200, and were a light and low freeboard design. I have heard that mid 50s are easy with a 175 on that hull, especially with a jack-plate.
My nauset with a 90 Johnson, just about 100 hours has hit 44 (gps) into a 15 mph headwind with the t-top, but was turning near 5900 to 6000. I quit that, since the redline is 5500. Two people, two batteries, 20 gallons in an aluminum tank, and a full 18 gallon livewell. The motor's mounted all the way down, too.
While I hear about 140s and even a 150 on a montauk, I don't think I would want to run 50 very often in my boat. The brakes have never been very good.
My supercharged Tacoma will get it moving real well, though.
posted 06-17-2003 09:41 AM ET (US)
Sal, no it tachs 6100-6200 at 51, 5800 at 48.
Merc shop sold me a new 15in in high rake stainless and lost 2 mph, better holeshot, of course. The 2 blade cavitates alot more but once it grabs it'll move!
posted 06-17-2003 05:27 PM ET (US)
Eric raises an intersting question, which Classic Whaler would be the fastest within rated HP? Engine brand counts here, so I'm going with Mercury, which tend to be the fastest within a given HP rating. My candidates:
1971-79 21 Outrage, with single 200 Merc Optimax. (in the 200 Hp range, the 3.0 liter Opti is faster than the 2.5 liter EFI). Since the HP rating was at the crankshaft, today's 200's could be a bit much for the boat.
1987-1993 Outrage 25 WD, with twin 225 Mercury EFI's
1987-1993 Outrage 22 WD, with twin 150 Mercury EFI's
All of these boats should do close to 60.
posted 06-17-2003 08:29 PM ET (US)
i have a 13 gls boston whaler that has a 90 oil injected yamaha that does precisel 64 mph i think i have the fastest 13 whler if i adda jackplate i can pick up to like 67 or 68 mph
posted 06-17-2003 08:50 PM ET (US)
Not the fastest, but respectable I think. Outrage II, 17 with an Optimax 135. Vengeance SS prop 14 in, 19 pitch, I can reliably post 48 MPH @ 5600 rpm on the GPS in good water. When I was a kid in my 13 (with an Evenrude 33), I was ecstatic if I broke 30.
posted 06-18-2003 09:48 AM ET (US)
Man, that's movin! I would think that is beyond the hull speed?! No chine walk?
posted 06-18-2003 08:54 PM ET (US)
No chine walk that I can tell. What would be the symptoms? She's a little sensitive fully trimmed out (don't make any sudden moves with the wheel), but in flat water it will track in a straight line with hands off the wheel.
Using the prop calculators, I estimate we're pretty close to theoretical with about a 5% slip.
posted 06-18-2003 08:56 PM ET (US)
ignore prior post. I now realize the message wsn't meant for moi. How embarassing.
posted 06-19-2003 12:01 AM ET (US)
Friend david who is a outboard motor mechanic and distributer has a 81 montauk with a mercury 200 EFI. All stock hull no modifications.We clocked him with radar at 86 mph on one pass. Then between the one mile channel markers he clocked a 48.5 second mile.Was a left tail wind 15 to 20 mi trades.Yes , IN THE WATER, no planes, trains, or automobiles assisted.
posted 06-19-2003 08:37 AM ET (US)
I'm presuming a misprint on one of the numbers?
posted 06-19-2003 03:38 PM ET (US)
We have a '88 22 outrage with w/d. 48 mph (gps)with twin merc 125 carb. We're repowering to twin optimax 200's. should do 60+. any recs on the props we should use?
posted 06-19-2003 05:52 PM ET (US)
Well, I guess someone is pulling our chain, first an 86 mph run, [ waaaaaaay to fast to be real ] then a 48 mph run [ obviously waaaat to slow ].
As far as props on the 22 with a pair of 200s,.....[ nice ] .
I'd start with a pair of 14.25 x 25 Stilettos & go from there.
Yes, I would most certainly expect 70 mph if not more .
I'm gonna say this, if you dont have experience running a boat at that speed, you had better not try it until you have worked your way up from 45 mph taking it 5 mph faster every day or even 2 days because you "WILL" either flip her over backwards, or not realize how far it's going to take you to stop & not be able to turn in any direction while your coasting to that stop, or just plaine loose control at 65+ mph.
There isn't a dealer in the world that would rig those engines for you so plan on doing it yourself.
I would mount those engines up on the 4th set of holes & go from there [ then adjust ] as the twins will be out & away from the lowest point of the bottom & up close to 2-1/2" because of the deadrise.
As i'v said, don't think your going to just climb in & put the hammers down on 440 hp cause you will end up in pieces.
Better take heed to what i'v said.
posted 06-19-2003 06:55 PM ET (US)
I appreciate and agree with what you're saying. We(my pop) also own a 18 outrage with a '00 Yamaha 200 HPDI. (yes, we put it on ourselves.) The problem is it's propped wrong, he's only got the stock prop(17 pitch) on there, but he doesn't care..... I think he should go to at least 21 pitch
Anyway remember i do have the whaler drive, so it's rated for 300 hp, 400 hp isn't that much more =] And yes, we've owned 5 whalers so I'm comfortable driving them at speed. We also only drive it in the ocean, so stopping and such things are irrelavent in the infinite space that is the pacific.
25 pitch huh, that's steep but I'll run some numbers on it...
Again, appreciate the advice...
posted 06-19-2003 07:06 PM ET (US)
I thought I would add our main purpose is not to go 60-70mph. The idea is to go 40-45 like we do now without running our engine at such a high rpm, which a) is not good for them, b) uses a boatload(literally) of fuel, and c) is rather loud. Pops loves his hpdi 200 on the outrage 18 cus he runs it all over the pacific and lake powell at 3300 rpm's, which it doesn't mind doing indefinetly and get WAY better gas mileage than the evinrude 150 that was on there previously.
posted 06-19-2003 10:10 PM ET (US)
Sal, I think Glassman was saying that they clocked a mile run in 48.5 seconds. I'm not sure what that equates to in mph though.
posted 06-19-2003 10:14 PM ET (US)
oops ,I pressed the wrong button. A mile per minute is 60 mph so if it takes 48.5 seconds to cover a mile, it would be well over 60 mph
posted 06-19-2003 10:56 PM ET (US)
73.6 mph according to my calculations.
posted 06-20-2003 09:04 AM ET (US)
You guys are figuring out the average velocity. If he did a mile in 48.5 seconds, then his average speed was 74 mph.
Assuming a constant acceleration, his top speed would have been 148 mph. (d=1/2 vt).
The acceleration is obviously not constant though. A graph of velocity vs time would probably look more like the first half of a bell curve. Steeper acceleration in the begining, and tapering off to flat towards the end.
Maybe one of the engineers or mathamaticians in the group could figure out the top speed given time, distance, and the horsepower/torque curve for that engine, but for the average Joe like me, it's way too complicated!
posted 06-20-2003 09:21 AM ET (US)
Then again he might have be running a "flying mile" .... A pass between the markers at speed.
posted 06-20-2003 09:28 AM ET (US)
Reading Glassman's post as per 48.5 seconds to cover a measured "flying" mile, I also get 74 MPH. If those figures are accurate, 86 MPH measured one way and 74 MPH measured in another, it sure looks like Glassman's friend is the current record holder. Makes my knees weak to think about it, though...
posted 06-20-2003 02:15 PM ET (US)
Regarding Matt's father's 22, twin 200 Optimax's are way too much weight, if nothing else, for that boat. Twin 150 EFI's/Optimax, turning 23" pitch Laser II props, will still give it 62 MPH and low RPM cruising. The 150 Mercs (on the 200HP block) are a lot more engine than the 4 cylinder 125's.
posted 06-20-2003 04:14 PM ET (US)
I have a Dauntless 18 with a 135 Optimax. SS prop. With relatively mild/smooth conditions, I get about 42MPH (GPS) at about 5500 RPM. Two persons. Full fuel.
This seems a bit slow.
posted 06-22-2003 10:01 PM ET (US)
My 15 sport with a '99 90 Merc does 55mph with two people.
posted 06-23-2003 12:12 AM ET (US)
I would love to see a 25 temptation with a set of 300x mercurys. I think it would be at least a solid 70mph machine.
posted 06-23-2003 06:20 AM ET (US)
How do you like the 90 hp on your 15'er? Would you put the same engine on if you had another chance? How is the chine walk? The Merc 90 is a 4 cylinder, correct? What size prop are you using? Does the stern sit noticably lower?
On my 15'er I'm considering putting a 90 yamaha or 90 Evinrude e-tek - if the E-TEK is a 3 cylinder...
posted 06-23-2003 08:10 PM ET (US)
mhoyt, Barry's 22' Outrage with whaler drive, is rated at 400 horsepower. (I have a picture of his capacities plate.)
I have twin 115 Hondas on mine and, if I had it to do over, I'd choose lighter motors. (Mine are 505 lbs each, and their weight does effect the trim considerably).
Twin 150's will give that boat PLENTY of juice. Twin 175s would make it a rocket.
posted 06-23-2003 10:29 PM ET (US)
Reply, The 48.5 mph was a fly by. That was about all he said he would dare to push it under those conditions for fear of going over .The 86 mph was the max dave pushed it to get his max speed at WOT before he had to quickly shut down.He says he's nuts, not crazy.I think he's both, but he nows his shit. I'm looking towards a DF70 suzuki for my montauk thats plenty enough for me. So while Daves back refueling his Merc, I'm still fishing. I'll try to get more imfo on his prop ext, ext. for those who would like to no. I do no this much he has a 26 gallon aluminium gas tank screwed to 3/4 ply thats glassed to the deck. An electronic fuel pump under the console, Where the rps was, he has a costum welded aluminium type roll cage heavly padded with a safety belt,standerd CC console less the wind sheild. Console is reinforced in all directions then bolted to the floor on a costum glassed in vertical flange. He has no unnessasary gages, just a tac, water pressure, an volts. The stock heavy plastic engine cover & base was molded then refabricated out of carbon fiber to cut back weight. it has hydraulic steering and the transom was reinforced then wraped over with aluminium paltes.
He has a stainless prop but I don't no the specs on it. He's trying to sell me on putting a 140 hp 4 stroke suzuki/jonson on my montauk.Since I mentioned I wanted to go 4 stroke. He says it's 5 pounds lighter then the 115 & 90 suzuki and if I'm going to fish with three or more guy's,gear and an estimated 150 pounds fish at the end of the day the 70 wont have the puch and it will actualy burn more gas than the 140 What do you guy's think? I'm still following my gut instink and leaning towards the DF70 suzuki.
posted 06-23-2003 10:35 PM ET (US)
Aluminium paltes ? I ment aluminium plates sorry
posted 06-26-2003 01:05 PM ET (US)
86 Montauk, original owner, no front railings
side railings cut down to two inches for holding
on. Windshield customized to 4 1/2 inc above the
top of center console (just to protect electronics)
Railing around center console changed to aluminum
heavy duty, just even with windshield.
Bob's Machine shop 6" jack plate, 20" OMC Raker Prop, 115 Yamaha, new, 35 hours ..basically modified to meet the needs of flats fishing in Florida Bay Ten Thousand Islands.
Top speed ideal conditions, no wind, 55 - 58..could not
hit 60, GPS speed. Two adults in the boat and 12 gallons
of fuel left in the tank.
However, I leave every one of those 150 and 175 flats boast
in the rooster tail of my whaler.
I was ready to sell it and buy a bay boat, yesterday I looked at the Pathfinders in the 18 - 19 range, good storage, great baitwells and wider boat, more space but quality just does not come close to the Whaler. My son talked me out of it last night. Then found this web site and decided to keep it I have a classic and I am sure there
posted 06-26-2003 02:49 PM ET (US)
Welcome to the forum Razmataz.
That sounds like a great rig.Smart to keep her. Do you have any pictures?
I'm very interested in the cut-down side rails as well as your console modifications.
posted 06-26-2003 05:02 PM ET (US)
My 1988 Outrage 22' Whaler Drive is rated for 400 hp. members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/capacity_plate.jpg
I've got twin 1988 Johnson 150's on mine and the large capacity tank. I wouldn't want any more weight if I could avoid it. I second LHG in that twin 200 OptiMax's are too much weight at 497+ lbs. each. If you're staying Mercury I would recommend a pair of 175 OptiMax's at 431+ lbs. each or maybe a pair of 200 EFI's at 425+ lbs. each.
posted 06-27-2003 03:15 PM ET (US)
According to the Mercury prop charts, if one wants to go 62MPH in a 22 WD, get the twin Mercury 150 EFI's with 23" pitch Laser II's. If one wants to go 68 MPH, get the 200 EFI's with 25" pitch props.
posted 06-28-2003 01:19 AM ET (US)
Love to show it off. I'll have my son the
I neglected to say that at 5000 rpm's I just
I am looking for tech help in installing Trim Tabs,
|Island Bwoy 420||
posted 06-30-2003 11:10 PM ET (US)
I have a tell you guys about an 18' Outrage a friend of mine had when I lived in the Bahamas. The boat and engine were 1989 with a 225 Yamaha on the back. I know that sounds like an ungodly amount of power but that boat was my favorite whaler I ever had the privilage to captain. Topped out at 68 mph on a hand held gps, WOT 5600 RPM and trimmed out. It got pretty sketchy unless we were on some glass water. If anyone here knows anything about Freeport, Grand Bahama, then you would know that there is a canal that goes straight through the island. It is roughly 8 miles long from southern shore to north shore. On most days on our way up to the little bahama bank and walker's cay. We could make it through the canal in a blink. Not to mention that a 7-8 mile straight line on protected water with no boats around is quite the drag strip! We had heaps of fun with that thing and its still hauling ass around Freeport since my friend moved to Italy and sold it to another friend of mine. I'll see if I can get some pics at WOT or maybe of a flyby. I had another friend who had a 150 Johnson on a Freeport Skiff (a Whaler ripoff) and it did around 73 with about 3 inches of hull in the water! Needless to say after owning the boat 3 weeks he was wake jumping lost 2 people out of the boat and came down on his chin on the plexiglass windshield and needed 56 stitches. So he replaced the 150 with a 115. Kids these days, arent we crazy!
|Island Bwoy 420||
posted 06-30-2003 11:12 PM ET (US)
Oh yes! I could write a book and I'm only 18 ;-) And that was just a boat story!
posted 07-01-2003 01:12 PM ET (US)
I am amazed no one has mentioned the 86-89 outrage 20'WD. 280 listed max hp. I talked to a guy in MN a few years back who had one for sale with twin 140's on it who claimed low sixties easy.
posted 07-03-2003 07:06 PM ET (US)
1st, and since I spent way too much money on it, I would like to say the 22 w/d currently with no engine is mine, and the 18 with '00 HPDI 200 is my father's.
Now, on the weight issue, our merc 125's were 378 each. Opti 150's are 431 each and opti 200's are 497 each.
Now, I agree, 996 lbs is a lot more than 756, BUT, my point is people put honda 130's that weigh in at 1010 lbs all the time. They have not stated that the weight is a problem.
Our '88 22 foot outrage with w/d says 300 hp max on the plate, adn the '88 whaler handbook states the following max horsepower, which is in line with the numbers that were always floating in my head.
Still waiting to pull the trigger on the '02 opti 200's,
posted 07-03-2003 07:21 PM ET (US)
O, Barry, didn't see you picture.
that is certainly confusing. Mine clear states 300 hp. I'll have to try and find a dig cam.
I agree, that the 175 opti's would be best, since they weigh less, the problem is, I've got a set of 200's in known good used condition(2002's) at a good price. the new 175's would cost me thousands more.
Quite the quandry.
posted 07-07-2003 01:33 PM ET (US)
I ran Jamie Rose's (the one who builds freeports) 17 Freeport Skif over in Lucaya canals for a week this year, if you are familar with those boats then you must know this one, it is the only one with a 225 Evinrude FICHT on the back. But know I am going to give Rose a run for his money over there with my 17 Outrage with a 200 C Yamaha and a jackplate. I think Rose's boat ran 70 with a speed prop and 65 mph with a regular 23" pitch 4 blade renegade.
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