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Author Topic:   Yamaha F60 on a 16'6" Sport

76er posted 11-04-2003 11:15 AM ET (US)
Hello All, I'm interested in repowering my '76 Sport. The 70 h.p. 1977 Johnson just left me. (I don't think I'll miss the smoke bomb) Anyone out there can please tell me all the good and bad with the Yamaha 60 h.p. four stroke.
Bigshot posted 11-04-2003 11:43 AM ET (US)
Good thing is it's light weight, reasonably priced and sips fuel. The bad is only 60hp, no EFI and what exactly is a reasonable price. I would go with the Merc 60 which is the same engine but with EFI and cheaper price tag. Being your 70 is 27 years old, you will probably go faster than your old 70 and laugh at the gas stations.
JBCornwell posted 11-04-2003 01:14 PM ET (US)
Ahoy, 76er.
As Bigshot points out, it is carbureted and expensive.
Go for EFI. The Merc is the same powerhead with EFI and less expensive, even if it is a Merc.
Suzuki/Johnson DF50, DF60 and DF70 are also better (in my opinion) choices, all EFI.
Red sky at night.. .
JB
Bigshot posted 11-04-2003 01:33 PM ET (US)
With the lighter 76 sport or Currituck, I don't know if I would do the 70 Johnson/suzuki, especially if you are happy with the old 70's performance. The 60/70 Zuki weighs 100lbs more than the Merc 60.
lhg posted 11-04-2003 01:35 PM ET (US)
I don't think Yamaha would risk losing their Number 1 JD Powers 4-stroke Customer Satisfaction rating by putting their name on a Mercury engine if they didn't think it was a pretty fine piece of equipment.
Moe posted 11-04-2003 01:57 PM ET (US)
Your boat weighs almost as much as my '03 150 Sport, and I'm very pleased with the 60 HP Merc Bigfoot EFI on it. That Yamaha uses a carbed version Merc engine, but the T60 (high-thrust) version of the Yamaha is more equivalent to the Bigfoot.
From everything I've been able to determine, the lower (higher numerically) gearing, with a larger, slower turning prop, works better with the torque curve of the small 4-stroke engines. That seems to be the case with our boat, since load doesn't seem to affect time to plane, or planing speed very much at all. The cost of the bigger foot and prop is a little top speed. That isn't an issue for us, since we seldom run faster than 70-80% of WOT.
The EFI is a real joy. No choke, no fast idle, just turn the key and it's running perfectly regardless of temperature. It really SIPS fuel.
So I'd vote with Nick for the EFI Merc, but would also recommend the higher thrust version of it. At 264 lbs, it's 9 lbs heavier than the T60, and only 20 lbs heavier than the F60.
--
Moe
tully_mars posted 11-04-2003 10:41 PM ET (US)
Don't let all this weight stuff worry you. I have a 383lb 75hp FICHT Evinrude on my 71' Montauk 16'6" and the boat runs great. It does not sit too low back in the water because of a little weight compensation. I.e., I moved the battery and oil tank to underneath the console moving at around 40-50lbs amidship.
The boat planes very evenly and I can trim the motor as much as I want without porpoising. Top speed is 39.5 MPH on the GPS.
Having the back open with no battery and/or oil tank really opens up the boat too.
So get what motor you would like regardless of the weight and setup your boat evenly.
But these guys are right, I would make sure whatever I got had EFI! :)
TM
76er posted 11-05-2003 06:52 AM ET (US)
Thank you all for the reply. This is going to make my day as busy as yesterday. I found the Yamaha F60 in stock at an authorized dealer, installed and out the door for $6,700 + tax. Everyone else wanted from $500 - $1,500 more. The reason I was thinking carbs is that salt water would eventually get at the electronics on the EFI. Cars also had problems with the EFI when they were first introduced. I guess the real problem is, you do not see many or any people with 4 strokes where I fish out of and the motor dealers are worse than car dealers.
76er posted 11-05-2003 08:15 AM ET (US)
I've been searching all over. The only link up betwween Mercury and Yamaha is that Mercury (Brunswick) is selling the 225 four stroke under their own name. No articles saying they are using same power head. J.D. Power does not mention Mercury at all. Check out link.
www.rbbi.com/white/drives/notes.txt
Bigshot posted 11-05-2003 10:32 AM ET (US)
Trust us....look at Mercs and suzuki if you wish. $7300 including tax is not cheap. I can get a 70hp Suzuki shipped to you from FL(no tax) for say $5300, controls another $2-300, wiring harness and misc. $200. It comes with prop and tach standard. Say $500(high side) to install.....you save $1000+.
Weight is not an issue but being the 383lb 75hp ficht does 0.5mph faster than my 70hp 4 stroke, why push the weight? That 60 should fetch you about 35-37mph.
Bigshot posted 11-05-2003 10:36 AM ET (US)
Actually Ed's sells the 60 Yamaha for $4999 and the 60 Merc for $5299($200 more for bigfoot option on each brand). This should be about what you are paying up north.
JBCornwell posted 11-05-2003 10:47 AM ET (US)
Hi, 76er.
EFI did not need to be reinvented for 4 stroke outboards. It is proven reliable technology.
Anything that would get salt water into a sealed EFI module is going to cause much bigger problems elsewhere. Have you tried to repair a salt destroyed carb lately?
Have you checked http://www.iboats.com for availability and prices?
Red sky at night. . .
JB
lhg posted 11-05-2003 04:45 PM ET (US)
Sounds like that money Yamaha invested with J D Power is paying off.
If he wants the Yamaha, he should buy it. Some people do feel more comfortable with carburetor induction. It's a perfectly good engine, and the powerhead IS built by Mercury. The engine specs of both companies should be checked, and this will be apparent.
As one who has run twin fuel injected Mercury offshore engines for 6 years now, I can say the EFI systems are bulletproof. EFI is not new to Mercury. They pioneered the technology for outboards, with the first ones being introduced back in 1987. Yamaha brought it out (OX 66) ten years later, and OMC never did get around to it.

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Author	Topic: Yamaha F60 on a 16'6" Sport
76er	posted 11-04-2003 11:15 AM ET (US) Hello All, I'm interested in repowering my '76 Sport. The 70 h.p. 1977 Johnson just left me. (I don't think I'll miss the smoke bomb) Anyone out there can please tell me all the good and bad with the Yamaha 60 h.p. four stroke.
Bigshot	posted 11-04-2003 11:43 AM ET (US) Good thing is it's light weight, reasonably priced and sips fuel. The bad is only 60hp, no EFI and what exactly is a reasonable price. I would go with the Merc 60 which is the same engine but with EFI and cheaper price tag. Being your 70 is 27 years old, you will probably go faster than your old 70 and laugh at the gas stations.
JBCornwell	posted 11-04-2003 01:14 PM ET (US) Ahoy, 76er. As Bigshot points out, it is carbureted and expensive. Go for EFI. The Merc is the same powerhead with EFI and less expensive, even if it is a Merc. Suzuki/Johnson DF50, DF60 and DF70 are also better (in my opinion) choices, all EFI. Red sky at night.. . JB
Bigshot	posted 11-04-2003 01:33 PM ET (US) With the lighter 76 sport or Currituck, I don't know if I would do the 70 Johnson/suzuki, especially if you are happy with the old 70's performance. The 60/70 Zuki weighs 100lbs more than the Merc 60.
lhg	posted 11-04-2003 01:35 PM ET (US) I don't think Yamaha would risk losing their Number 1 JD Powers 4-stroke Customer Satisfaction rating by putting their name on a Mercury engine if they didn't think it was a pretty fine piece of equipment.
Moe	posted 11-04-2003 01:57 PM ET (US) Your boat weighs almost as much as my '03 150 Sport, and I'm very pleased with the 60 HP Merc Bigfoot EFI on it. That Yamaha uses a carbed version Merc engine, but the T60 (high-thrust) version of the Yamaha is more equivalent to the Bigfoot. From everything I've been able to determine, the lower (higher numerically) gearing, with a larger, slower turning prop, works better with the torque curve of the small 4-stroke engines. That seems to be the case with our boat, since load doesn't seem to affect time to plane, or planing speed very much at all. The cost of the bigger foot and prop is a little top speed. That isn't an issue for us, since we seldom run faster than 70-80% of WOT. The EFI is a real joy. No choke, no fast idle, just turn the key and it's running perfectly regardless of temperature. It really SIPS fuel. So I'd vote with Nick for the EFI Merc, but would also recommend the higher thrust version of it. At 264 lbs, it's 9 lbs heavier than the T60, and only 20 lbs heavier than the F60. -- Moe
tully_mars	posted 11-04-2003 10:41 PM ET (US) Don't let all this weight stuff worry you. I have a 383lb 75hp FICHT Evinrude on my 71' Montauk 16'6" and the boat runs great. It does not sit too low back in the water because of a little weight compensation. I.e., I moved the battery and oil tank to underneath the console moving at around 40-50lbs amidship. The boat planes very evenly and I can trim the motor as much as I want without porpoising. Top speed is 39.5 MPH on the GPS. Having the back open with no battery and/or oil tank really opens up the boat too. So get what motor you would like regardless of the weight and setup your boat evenly. But these guys are right, I would make sure whatever I got had EFI! :) TM
76er	posted 11-05-2003 06:52 AM ET (US) Thank you all for the reply. This is going to make my day as busy as yesterday. I found the Yamaha F60 in stock at an authorized dealer, installed and out the door for $6,700 + tax. Everyone else wanted from $500 - $1,500 more. The reason I was thinking carbs is that salt water would eventually get at the electronics on the EFI. Cars also had problems with the EFI when they were first introduced. I guess the real problem is, you do not see many or any people with 4 strokes where I fish out of and the motor dealers are worse than car dealers.
76er	posted 11-05-2003 08:15 AM ET (US) I've been searching all over. The only link up betwween Mercury and Yamaha is that Mercury (Brunswick) is selling the 225 four stroke under their own name. No articles saying they are using same power head. J.D. Power does not mention Mercury at all. Check out link. www.rbbi.com/white/drives/notes.txt
Bigshot	posted 11-05-2003 10:32 AM ET (US) Trust us....look at Mercs and suzuki if you wish. $7300 including tax is not cheap. I can get a 70hp Suzuki shipped to you from FL(no tax) for say $5300, controls another $2-300, wiring harness and misc. $200. It comes with prop and tach standard. Say $500(high side) to install.....you save $1000+. Weight is not an issue but being the 383lb 75hp ficht does 0.5mph faster than my 70hp 4 stroke, why push the weight? That 60 should fetch you about 35-37mph.
Bigshot	posted 11-05-2003 10:36 AM ET (US) Actually Ed's sells the 60 Yamaha for $4999 and the 60 Merc for $5299($200 more for bigfoot option on each brand). This should be about what you are paying up north.
JBCornwell	posted 11-05-2003 10:47 AM ET (US) Hi, 76er. EFI did not need to be reinvented for 4 stroke outboards. It is proven reliable technology. Anything that would get salt water into a sealed EFI module is going to cause much bigger problems elsewhere. Have you tried to repair a salt destroyed carb lately? Have you checked http://www.iboats.com for availability and prices? Red sky at night. . . JB
lhg	posted 11-05-2003 04:45 PM ET (US) Sounds like that money Yamaha invested with J D Power is paying off. If he wants the Yamaha, he should buy it. Some people do feel more comfortable with carburetor induction. It's a perfectly good engine, and the powerhead IS built by Mercury. The engine specs of both companies should be checked, and this will be apparent. As one who has run twin fuel injected Mercury offshore engines for 6 years now, I can say the EFI systems are bulletproof. EFI is not new to Mercury. They pioneered the technology for outboards, with the first ones being introduced back in 1987. Yamaha brought it out (OX 66) ten years later, and OMC never did get around to it.