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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 22 Repower
jimku posted 11-05-2003 07:02 AM ET (US)   Profile for jimku   Send Email to jimku  
I am considering repowering my OUTRAGE 22 with either a Yamaha 225-HP or a 250-HP. Could anyone with either motor please give me some performance results.
David Ratusnik posted 11-05-2003 07:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
jimku- Unless you have the Whalerdrive, I believe 240-HP is max for an OUTRAGE 22. A 225-HP Yamaha is plenty. I just repowered my 1986 OUTRAGE 22 with a 200-HP Ox66 EFI and it scuuuuuutes. David
Peter posted 11-05-2003 07:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
My former REVENGE 22 with a 2000 Yamaha 225-HP Ox66 EFI turning a 15 x 17 Saltwater Series propeller would achieve about 43 MPH at WOT turning 5300 RPM. At cruise it would get about 3 MPG. The only 225-HP outboard that Yamaha currently makes is a 4-stroke. Top end performance of the 4-stroke will be lower than as stated with the 2-stroke. Fuel economy at the same vessel speeds will be about the same except at trolling where the 4-stroke will be much better.
jimh posted 11-05-2003 08:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Edited thread to remove all abbreviations of Boston Whaler boat model names. Recently I explicitly asked that articles not use abbreviations for the model names of Boston Whaler boats. It would be much appreciated if authors would observe this request when submitting articles for publication in this forum. As has been mentioned in the past, the reason for this very strong preference for no abbreviations is to prevent confusion introduced by non-standard abbreviations and also to make it easier to locate articles in the search function. Again, it would be much appreciated if authors would comply with this simple request.--jimh.]
mustang7nh posted 11-06-2003 10:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for mustang7nh  Send Email to mustang7nh     
I have a 1991 22 Outrage classic. It has a 1995 Yam 250 carb with a 19" Stilleto. I've no way to determine how "strong" my 250 is, I would say that it is definitly NOT overpowered. Push the envelope and go with 250 block that weighs 500 # or under. Mine weights 500 #. Good balance. That factor is very important and is often overlooked in the performance discussion. The difference in top end between a 200, 225, or 250 is probably splitting hairs. So IMO 225 would be minimum hp. The "haul ass" factor is one of the many qualities that makes these boats awesome. IMO weight on the transom aka balance is more of a factor than pure hp. Frankly, a balanced skipper with a 300 hp that weighed less than 500# would be fine, although your insurance company may not agree. Practically, I think the 22's performance is between 44 and 50 mph, period. The hydrodynamics limit top speed without excessive hp.
Clark Roberts posted 11-07-2003 07:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
Consider the tried and true Mercury 2.5Liter 200hp EFI at about 415lbs. This engine has a long history (since about 1988)of very reliable and economical operation and is almost silent at speed. Power comes on instantly and it will push a 22 Whaler to mid 40s (most likey high 40's). IMHO, this is the state of the art in two stroke EFI. Talk to some owners of this engine for more info... several dealers I have spoken to (and their mechanics) say that when one goes out the door they never see it again. The engine control module (ECM) monitors barometric pressure, ambient temp, cyl head temp, jacket water temp, engine speed, throttle position, load on engine... etc, and constantly adjust timing and fuel delivery via the throttle body/separate reed injection system and even has a knock sensor which retards timing if bad (low octane/contaminated) fuel is detected. Also it has an under the cowling fuel (water separating)filter which has a sensor that audible alarms if water enters the filter. This engine is really simple, light, fuel efficient, quiet, reliable, powerful and is a turn-key starting marvel... can you tell that I really like this engine. I have one on a 1975 21 Outrage and it will run 50plus mph and get 3-4 mpg at any speed I wish to cruise and is almost completely silent at any planing speed. Parked side by side with my 21 Revenge with 115hp EFI four stroker the 200 EFI is visually smaller and more compact..
Blah, blah, blah, blah. Happy Whalin... Clark.. Spurce Creek Navy
Tom2697 posted 11-07-2003 10:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom2697  Send Email to Tom2697     
My father installed an '02 Yamaha 225hp on his 22 Revenge WT. My brother said the boat would run near 50mph and jump onto plane almost instantly. We never got a chance to optimize the performance as the boat was stolen 6 days after the new motor was installed. It only had about 6 hours on the motor.

PLEASE, lock that boat if you install any new motor! My father is still upset about it even though he replaced that rig with a 25' Outrage Cuddy.

David Ratusnik posted 11-07-2003 01:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
jimku- gas comsumption. One reason I moved down from a carbed 225hp Johnson to a 200hp Yamaha was gas consumption without a significant loss in performance. Frankly, the new 200 outperforms the older engine. Also, moving from a carbed engine to an EFI Yamaha significantly reduces gas consumption. Check the prices on older EFI technology versus the new DFI or 4 stroke technology. I couldn't justify paying more for the repower than I did for the Outrage. Good luck David
lhg posted 11-07-2003 03:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I'll second Clark's post on the 200HP EFI engines, either Yamaha or Mercury. My 1997 200 EFI Mercs have been trouble free with 1500 hours, except for a power trim pump leakdown on one, and a $100 rectifier on the other. Literally, nothing else has been done to them outside of routine plugs and impellers. No tune ups, adjustments, nothing. And they are super quiet at 30-40 MPH! I wasted money buying 5 year extended warranties. I'm sure the Yamaha versions are just as good. Didn't Yamaha's EFI come from Mercury?

Clark, what prop are you running on that hotrod 21 Outrage of yours. 19" Revolution 4 blade by any chance?

Clark Roberts posted 11-07-2003 07:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
Larry, I'm running a 21" Laser II and can't quite hit 5800rpm so am going to try out a 19" Laser II so maybe can hit 6000 lightly loaded. This thing is a rocket and all you can hear, literally, at speed is the wind in your ears. This engine is so simple... wonder when they will drop it? It is quieter than my EFI 115 four stroker at all speeds except idle. I would trade the 115 for a 200EFI Merc in a heartbeat! Happy Whalin
PS> give me info on the revolution prop you mentioned, please. I don't know of it! Thanks
lhg posted 11-07-2003 08:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Clark - According to the latest from Mercury, they are no longer recommending Laser II props, which I also run, for outboard boats over 18'. This came as a new surprise to me also. Instead they are recommending the fast new Revolution 4 blade or the Mirage Plus. I'm going to sell my 23" Lasers and give the Revolutions a try. Go to mercurymarine.com and work your way into the prop information, which is quite extensive. It's all there.

My Mercury prop charts show 21" pitch at about 58-59 mph, so if the Whaler won't go that fast, maybe the 19, shown at about 52 mph, is right. Or you could be going faster than you think in that 21. Engine is redlined at 5800?

Clark Roberts posted 11-08-2003 06:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
Thanks for the info Larry! Just looking at the blades on the Mirage gives me the feeling that it's best suited for pushing a heavy boat with those big fat blades! The Laser just looks right, know what I mean!? Engine is rated at 5800 rpm at WOT and that's why I want to prop it out at 6000 with light load. I'm betting on the 19 Laser II and will test one out before I buy. Thanks again and good luck on those four blades... let us know how they work out.. Clark.. SCN
jimp posted 11-08-2003 11:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimp  Send Email to jimp     
jimku -

I repowered my 1990 Revenge WT with a 2003 Merc Optimax 225 (I wanted newer technology and better mpg). I've got two props (lhg & Clark are interested in this and have commented as I have posted this before). 225 Optimax was over $2,000 cheaper than Yamaha 225 4-stroke in Juneau. With 2 in college, down to 1 income (wife is now one of them in college), the dollars were important. The Opti has been flawless.

Data from GPS and Merc SmartCraft gauge that has gal/hr info.

19" Merc Black Max Aluminum:
Max RPM 5200
Max speed 39.2 knots = 45.08 mph
Cruise RPM 3740
Cruise 27.7 knots = 31.9 mph
MPG at 27.7 knots = 3.15 nmpg = 3.62 statute mpg

17" Revolution 4 stainless:
Max RPM 5500
Max speed 41.5 knots = 47.7 mph
Cruise RPM 3750 RPM
Cruise 24 knots = 27.6 mph
MPG at 24 knots = 2.7 nmpg = 3.1 statute mpg (not positive on this as info is at work)

I'm using the aluminum as my main prop as I like the mpg and 27.7 knot cruise.

Good luck with your decision. I know you wanted Yamaha info, but look at your dealer, your cost, your warranty, and how you use your boat.

JimP


lhg posted 11-08-2003 02:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
JimP - thanks for the Revenge performance data, which is extremely interesting and not what many would expect. A 17" pitch prop running faster than a 19"? This shows two things. The Aluminum props are not as efficient as SS, and 4-blade props actually generate a higher EFFECTIVE pitch than listed. Mercury continuously warns about this also. The 17" pitch Revolution is actually an effective pitch of 19", while still allowing the engine to rev higher.

Your fuel mileage results are really confusing, however.

I would think you would have noticed differences in bow and hull lift, and resulting smoother ride, from the Revolution prop. This is what may be providing the better speed, also.

jimp posted 11-08-2003 05:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimp  Send Email to jimp     
lhg -

For sure, the 17" Revolution-4 4-blade stainless leaves the 19" 3-blade aluminum in the dust (spray?) for acceleration - whiplash, longer arms, etc! As for bow/hull lift - I haven't noticed much as I always trim all the way in for acceleration.

By saying "A 17" pitch prop running faster than a 19"?" did you mean top speed or RPM? When I used Merc's prop finder on their website, I had the impression that the Rev-4 would provide higher top speed - which it did, and better efficiency (mpg) at cruise - which it doesn't. The dealer wanted to sell me the Rev-4 for $600, but I found it on the Internet for $460 (including shipping) and the dealer gave it to me for that. But looking back - Is a 2.3 knot increase in top speed worth $460?

Forgot to mention that my boat is a 1990 Revenge 22 WT. Original engine was a 1989 carbed Johnson 225 - thirsty and only about 2nmpg.

Sticking with jimku's original theme, the Opti is not a Yamaha, but still a fine engine and worthy of consideration.

JimP

lhg posted 11-08-2003 05:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Getting back to the original question, choosing between a 225 or 250 HP Yamaha in 25" shaft version, also means choosing between the 225 4-stroke or the 250 DFI 2-stroke.
So technology, and it's performance differences, becomes an issue besides HP. They offer a lot less choice here than Mercury, which has all 3 technologies in the 225 size, and 2 in the 250 size, soon to be 3 there also.

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