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  Propellor: REVENGE 22, 225-HP

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Author Topic:   Propellor: REVENGE 22, 225-HP
rsgwynn1 posted 11-20-2003 07:02 PM ET (US)   Profile for rsgwynn1   Send Email to rsgwynn1  
I'm running a 14 1/2 by 20 on my 22 Revenge Cuddy. Evinrude 225. I'm redlining at the high end of the recommended range. What would happen if I step down to 19 pitch?
Barry posted 11-20-2003 09:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
You will increase your RPM by about 200.
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-20-2003 09:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
What year Evinrude?
To the best of my knowledge, OMC Bombardier dosen't make a 14.5 x 20 prop.
I think you tach might not be correct because the recommended highest rpm on a new 225 Evinrude is I think 6,000 rpms & i really doubt that 225 can twist that prop to 6,000 rpms.
As Barry says, you will gain another 200 rpms for every inch of pitch removed from your current 20" pitch putting you at 6,200 rpms.
What kind of speed are you getting at max rpms with your 20" pitch prop & what is the max rpms your now turning.
Sal
jimh posted 11-20-2003 11:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Is that really a REVENGE 22 CUDDY? Those are fairly unusual. I am looking for information on them, and a photograph.
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-21-2003 12:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I think he means a regular Revenge.
I'v never seen a cuddy revenge even though the cabin is called a cuddy.
Sal
Tom W Clark posted 11-21-2003 12:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Jim,

Yes, rsgwynn1 has a rare 1983 Revenge Cuddy model. This is similar to an Outrage Cuddy but instead of a center console, there is a steering station mounted to the starboard side of the cabin bulkhead and a distinctive wrap-around plexiglass windscreen.

Don McIntyre owned the 25 foot version of this model. It can be seen in the Cetacea Section: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage14.html

To further confuse matters, the Revenge Cuddy model was intially called Outrage Cuddy with Forward Steering Station.

jimh posted 11-21-2003 11:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I had seen Don's Revenge 25 Cuddy, but nary a 22-footer. I just got some nice pictures via email from another 22 Revenge Cuddy owner. Nice looking boat!
rsgwynn1 posted 11-22-2003 02:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for rsgwynn1  Send Email to rsgwynn1     
Picture sent, Jimh.

Sal, it's a 1989 225. The previous owner had a hydrofoil mounted on it, and the engine was sitting high. I didn't like the handling in rough seas--it always felt loose in chop and would overrev frequently when hitting the top of a wave--and my mechanic put the motor down to the lowest hole and removed the foil. It tracks a lot better now. At wot she turns a little over 6000 rpm and runs in the mid to uppper 30s (nmph). So I guess you're saying that I'm propped about right as I am. I usually run with pretty heavy loads, 3 or 4 people, 120 gallons of gas (30 in a front tank installed in the cuddy stepdown), and lots of fishing stuff. I'm happy to sacrifice some top end speed to more stable handling.

Peter posted 11-22-2003 09:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
RSG, your numbers suggest you are running with 30 percent slip at WOT which is not typical. 6 to 10 percent is typical.

Your prop may have a spun hub or your tachometer may be incorrect. I think that at most you should be turning a propeller with a 19 inch pitch and may be better off with a 17 inch pitch given the age of the motor. With a 17 inch pitch you should see at least low 40s.

I suggest that you make sure that your motor is mounted so that the anti-cavitation plate is even or just slightly above the keel. If it is mounted in the lowest hole such that the motor bracket rests on the transom top that is usually too low and the anti-cavitation plate may be below the keel. Typical mounting is to have the bracket at least one inch above the transom top which usually means mounting through second hole from top. That usually puts the anti-cavitation plate even with the keel.

rsgwynn1 posted 11-22-2003 02:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for rsgwynn1  Send Email to rsgwynn1     
Peter, the plate is about 1 1/2" above the bottom of the keel, which should be about right. If I go down to a 19 pitch prop wouldn't that mean that I'll be exceeding max rpms at wot? I'm turning over 6000 now. I do have a 14 1/2x19 I bought on eBay. Next time I take the boat out I'll try it and update performance figures. I am reading speed off the gps, which is set to nautical miles per hour.
Peter posted 11-22-2003 05:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Sorry, I missed the NMPH. Yes, assuming that the 20 and 19 inch pitches are measured using the same standard, which I doubt, then you would see an increase in RPM.

Using the propeller calculator with 10 percent slip, you should be doing 51 MPH or 44 NMPH at 6000 RPM, which I know is unlikely given the load. Like Sal, I have a difficult time believing that your 225 can turn a 20 inch propeller to 6000 RPM. Your data suggests slip above 25 percent which is not normal. You could have a malfunctioning tachometer or a spun hub.

Swap propellers, take it up to WOT and let us know your tach and speed reedings. If RPMs drop significantly with the 19, say by 500 or so, then the 20 inch prop probably has a spun hub or its pitch really isn't 20 inches or the tachometer could be faulty. A fairly precise top speed reading should help sort that out.

rsgwynn1 posted 11-22-2003 05:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for rsgwynn1  Send Email to rsgwynn1     
The hub's fine--recently rebuilt. I'll try soon with new speed figures.
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-22-2003 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I have a feeling that prop has been redone & is really a 17 pitch,......20" at 6,000 rpms dosen't add up.
The tach should have a dial on the back of it, & if it's set on number 5 your tach will read higher then your really turning, it should be set on # 6.
Thats a whole lotta rpms for a carbed 225 twisting a 14.5 x 20 on a 22 ft Whaler.
If it's twisting 6,000 now since you lower the engine, it had to be pushing 63... 6,400 on the raised up all the way.
Somethings not right here.
What make prop is that, as I don't think omc made a 14.5 x 20 ?
Sal
rsgwynn1 posted 11-23-2003 01:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for rsgwynn1  Send Email to rsgwynn1     
It's an OMC prop repitched to 20 from 21. Maybe I should replace the tach before further testing.
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-23-2003 01:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
The setting on the back of the tach for an omc engine is number "6".
Sal
rsgwynn1 posted 11-24-2003 02:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for rsgwynn1  Send Email to rsgwynn1     
Correction. It's a 14 1/4 prop, if that makes any difference.
Peter posted 11-24-2003 08:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
RSG, the diameter might make a difference here. 14.25 inches is pretty small for a diameter on a propeller that has less than 21 inches of pitch. Assuming your tachometer is correct, your prop might not be getting a good bite due to the relatively small diameter.

Usually, a propeller with a 17 inch or 19 inch pitch is the right one for a classic 22 Whaler hull. These days, such propellers usually have a minimum diameter of 14.5 inches and its not unusual to find them with diameters of 14.75 to 15.25 inches. For example, my former 22 Revenge with 225 Yamaha was equipped with a 15.25 x 17 inch propeller. With this propeller, the 225 would turn to a maximum WOT RPM of about 5300 RPM (redline was 5500 RPM). The Yamaha has a slightly lower gear ratio (1.81:1) than the Evinrude (1.86:1) so a 19 inch pitch propeller could be right for the Evinrude.

I would still check the tachometer to make sure its pole setting is correct.

swede5 posted 11-27-2003 09:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for swede5  Send Email to swede5     
RSG, I have a 1987 Johnson 225 on my 22 w/t revenge. The prop is a 15.25X17. I get 40 mph with a decent load and 70-90 gallons of gas. I raised my motor earlier this year to reduce drag and appeared to sacrifice nothing. I run a stainless prop. Funny thing though, when I went from the aluminum to stainless, I did not appear to gain anything. Maybe I bought a little holeshot. I did try the 14.5 X 19 and was not impressed at all. Maybe alittle more holeshot but top end dropped off. Overall, I am very satisfied with the 15.25 X 17. By the way, do you have trim tabs? That was the best 350 bucks I spent on the revenge. Good luck.
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-27-2003 11:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I'v found that a 14.25 diameter works excellent on a 22' Whaler.
My good buddy owns a 1986 ...22' Outrage with a 235 Johnson [ with a fire hose for a fuel line ]& was swinging a 15.50 x 17 s/s omc prop & the performance was just fair, I loaned him one of my Stiletto 14.25 x 19s & raised his engine 2 sets of holes & that boat became a completely different animal breaking 50 mph & riding like she's supposed to.
It totally depends on the style of prop your running.
I'v found that the standard s/s omc props are really lousy & give no lift at all.
By going to the Stiletto & smaller diameter [ by 1.25" ] that boat rode much, much, higher & was able to get some air under the hull & she really scoots & dosen't break loose in chop or turns & bites far better in rough water then the omc prop ever did even being 2 sets of holes higher.
Absolutly nothing suffered & every aspect of performance was lifted by a long shot.
A bass boat buddy loaned me a 14 x 23 Mazco blue printed $1,400 prop for my 200 DFI & let me tell you, ...my boat "NEVER" rode as beautiful as it did that day & has never rode like that again.
The prop controls the engine, the engine dosen't control the prop, & the right prop will turn a dog into one fast sob that will dance on the water instead of just plowing over or through it.
Sal
rsgwynn1 posted 11-28-2003 03:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for rsgwynn1  Send Email to rsgwynn1     
Well, I have a total of four props now, so I guess when the weather's good I'm just going to have to go out and water test each one. Maybe when I figure out which one works best I can use the other three for some kind of wind chime.

I do have trim tabs, by the way, and am getting the single toggle switch replaced with rocker switches next time I'm in the shop. That toggle switch, located below the steering wheel, must have been designed by a sadist.

CHRISWEIGHT posted 12-03-2003 06:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for CHRISWEIGHT  Send Email to CHRISWEIGHT     
rsgwynn1

Have a look at a teleflex pro trim, they do double units which would allow ptt and trim tabs without letting go of the wheel.
had one fitted recently and it works a treat. About $55-60 US.
chris

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