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Author Topic:   repowering a 25 outrage with whaler drive

jccbitnspur posted 01-29-2004 10:07 AM ET (US)
I currently have a 25 ft. outrage with whaler drive, powered by twin Yam. 150hp(all 1989). I am looking to repower, but cant decide on the new motors. Whaler reports that I cannot put more than 950lbs. of motors on the back. I am considering the new 150hp yam. 4-stroke(470lbs. each), but I worry about the slow pick up I have heard 4stroke engines tend to perform. The 150hp motors I have now are more than powerful enough out of the hole. I use the boat primarily fishing and cruising so a great hole shot is not needed, but I do not want to be 2-3 minutes trying to get on plain either. Does anyone have any thoughts?
lhg posted 01-29-2004 04:04 PM ET (US)
This subject seems to be getting popular lately, and 25 Outrages with Whaler Drive are in abundance. You might want to search around a little for some of the other powering suggestions.
I would not consider anything but a pair of 200's or 225's, anybody's brand, and NOT 4-stroke (too heavy). All will be within your weight limit.
To make her "scream and fly", get a pair of Merc 225 EFI's!
For good all around economy, the Yamaha 150 4-strokes could be nice.
jccbitnspur posted 01-29-2004 11:33 PM ET (US)
Thanks IHG. I considered the 225 and 200 HPDI and EFI's, but both mercury and yam. local dealers were against these motors due to powerhead failures. The weights on these motors are similar to the yam 150 4-stroke. Is your concern a lack of top end spead, or lack of hole shot, or other? My goal is to power the boat with durable, fuel efficient, and reliable power. I have an 80 mile run to the blue water south of Mobile, so speed and economy are a premium. Thanks for the thoughts and any further ideas are greatly appreciated. John.
lhg posted 01-30-2004 04:44 PM ET (US)
I have "zero" knowledge or experience regarding the new Yamaha 150. I'm sure running speed would be fine with good economy. As for acceleration, previous four stroke designs have been slower, but don't know about these.
You've been running 150's already, so you should have a pretty good idea of what they'll give you. What kind of top speed to you get now? 45?
I'm surprised that someone told you the Mercury and Yamaha 200 & 225 EFI's have powerhead failures. I have not heard that for either brand, and my 1997 Merc 200 EFI's have been perfect, now with 1700 hours on them. Sounds like someone's pushing the new 150's.
Peter posted 01-30-2004 06:07 PM ET (US)
Jccbitnspur you might spend some time comparing the Yamaha performance reports for boats that have been outfitted with a pair of F150s and a 2-stroke (pair or single) of something else. I did a quick check just for my own curiosity and found performance reports for a pair of F150s and a HPDI 250 on a Grady 257, which is similar in size to your boat. Assuming the reports are accurate, the pair of F150s were faster out of the hole, more fuel efficient and quite a bit faster than the single 250. Granted, the F150 equipped boat has 50 additional HP so its not a true apples to apples comparison but the F150s look like they have some guts.
jccbitnspur posted 01-30-2004 11:14 PM ET (US)
IGH, you are correct, I top out at 45 with the 150's I currently own(which is fast enough) but I dont push them very hard due to age(I run 3800 rpm and 32mph fully loaded). The problem we all have is who to believe? There are great reports on both the hpdi and efi, but multiple local mechanics all say the same thing- they would not put an hpdi on there boat and they dont trust the mercs.....These are people who sell both engines, and will have to find the 150 4-strokes from another dealer. The online price of the 150 4-stroke is 11000 and they are quoting 11200 plus install. What do you think?
jccbitnspur posted 01-30-2004 11:18 PM ET (US)
Peter-It is so hard trying to find an apples to apples comparison for similar boats and powering. My biggest concern is the hole shot with new 150's, I dont want to drag out of the hole but I dont need 60 mph either. thanks. I welcome your thoughts.
homey posted 01-31-2004 12:58 PM ET (US)
jccbitnspur,
I also have a 25' Outrage whalerdrive and seriously considered repowering last year. You'll get alot of opinions here regarding outboard power. Its usually a hot subject. So, here is my opinion....
I Like the quiet/smokeless four strokes but not their heavy weight on a older boat regardless of brand. The technology isn't new but when applied to a Outboard being run at high rpms, the reliability hasn't been really tested by the consumer like a 2 stroke.
I like the new fuel injected 2 strokes. They get better fuel mileage and more quiet then their older carbed brothers. There is abit less smoke as well. They are very reliable when properly maintained.
If I was going to repower tomorrow, I would go with the Yamaha 150 hpdi's. If you put 200's or 225's I think your range may suffer...

I decided to keep my current motors 1989 Johnson 150's. They smoke, love gas and run great. I might repower in 4 years. Good luck in your decision! Homey.
bwguardian posted 01-31-2004 02:40 PM ET (US)
jccbitnspur,
I also have a 25' Outrage with twin '84 Mercury 150's (these are the best engines I have owned). I will be putting 225 EFI's on my 27' Guardian. One of the reasons I credit these engines in lasting so long is that I run Mercury High Five props on the 150's; hole shot along with engines bogging in a following sea on the way in after a day offshore is not a problem (I have even stuck the bow through a wave and the engines never let up). I also plan to utilize Mercury Revolution 4 props on the 27'. Running the boat as far as you do offshore I would put Yamaha 150 4-strokes or even consider the Suzuki 140 4-strokes either with a good pair of four or five blade props. Running 80 miles you will need the fuel economy if you get into a bad storm (and I know about that also living on the Gulf Coast).
Calm Seas

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Author	Topic: repowering a 25 outrage with whaler drive
jccbitnspur	posted 01-29-2004 10:07 AM ET (US) I currently have a 25 ft. outrage with whaler drive, powered by twin Yam. 150hp(all 1989). I am looking to repower, but cant decide on the new motors. Whaler reports that I cannot put more than 950lbs. of motors on the back. I am considering the new 150hp yam. 4-stroke(470lbs. each), but I worry about the slow pick up I have heard 4stroke engines tend to perform. The 150hp motors I have now are more than powerful enough out of the hole. I use the boat primarily fishing and cruising so a great hole shot is not needed, but I do not want to be 2-3 minutes trying to get on plain either. Does anyone have any thoughts?
lhg	posted 01-29-2004 04:04 PM ET (US) This subject seems to be getting popular lately, and 25 Outrages with Whaler Drive are in abundance. You might want to search around a little for some of the other powering suggestions. I would not consider anything but a pair of 200's or 225's, anybody's brand, and NOT 4-stroke (too heavy). All will be within your weight limit. To make her "scream and fly", get a pair of Merc 225 EFI's! For good all around economy, the Yamaha 150 4-strokes could be nice.
jccbitnspur	posted 01-29-2004 11:33 PM ET (US) Thanks IHG. I considered the 225 and 200 HPDI and EFI's, but both mercury and yam. local dealers were against these motors due to powerhead failures. The weights on these motors are similar to the yam 150 4-stroke. Is your concern a lack of top end spead, or lack of hole shot, or other? My goal is to power the boat with durable, fuel efficient, and reliable power. I have an 80 mile run to the blue water south of Mobile, so speed and economy are a premium. Thanks for the thoughts and any further ideas are greatly appreciated. John.
lhg	posted 01-30-2004 04:44 PM ET (US) I have "zero" knowledge or experience regarding the new Yamaha 150. I'm sure running speed would be fine with good economy. As for acceleration, previous four stroke designs have been slower, but don't know about these. You've been running 150's already, so you should have a pretty good idea of what they'll give you. What kind of top speed to you get now? 45? I'm surprised that someone told you the Mercury and Yamaha 200 & 225 EFI's have powerhead failures. I have not heard that for either brand, and my 1997 Merc 200 EFI's have been perfect, now with 1700 hours on them. Sounds like someone's pushing the new 150's.
Peter	posted 01-30-2004 06:07 PM ET (US) Jccbitnspur you might spend some time comparing the Yamaha performance reports for boats that have been outfitted with a pair of F150s and a 2-stroke (pair or single) of something else. I did a quick check just for my own curiosity and found performance reports for a pair of F150s and a HPDI 250 on a Grady 257, which is similar in size to your boat. Assuming the reports are accurate, the pair of F150s were faster out of the hole, more fuel efficient and quite a bit faster than the single 250. Granted, the F150 equipped boat has 50 additional HP so its not a true apples to apples comparison but the F150s look like they have some guts.
jccbitnspur	posted 01-30-2004 11:14 PM ET (US) IGH, you are correct, I top out at 45 with the 150's I currently own(which is fast enough) but I dont push them very hard due to age(I run 3800 rpm and 32mph fully loaded). The problem we all have is who to believe? There are great reports on both the hpdi and efi, but multiple local mechanics all say the same thing- they would not put an hpdi on there boat and they dont trust the mercs.....These are people who sell both engines, and will have to find the 150 4-strokes from another dealer. The online price of the 150 4-stroke is 11000 and they are quoting 11200 plus install. What do you think?
jccbitnspur	posted 01-30-2004 11:18 PM ET (US) Peter-It is so hard trying to find an apples to apples comparison for similar boats and powering. My biggest concern is the hole shot with new 150's, I dont want to drag out of the hole but I dont need 60 mph either. thanks. I welcome your thoughts.
homey	posted 01-31-2004 12:58 PM ET (US) jccbitnspur, I also have a 25' Outrage whalerdrive and seriously considered repowering last year. You'll get alot of opinions here regarding outboard power. Its usually a hot subject. So, here is my opinion.... I Like the quiet/smokeless four strokes but not their heavy weight on a older boat regardless of brand. The technology isn't new but when applied to a Outboard being run at high rpms, the reliability hasn't been really tested by the consumer like a 2 stroke. I like the new fuel injected 2 strokes. They get better fuel mileage and more quiet then their older carbed brothers. There is abit less smoke as well. They are very reliable when properly maintained. If I was going to repower tomorrow, I would go with the Yamaha 150 hpdi's. If you put 200's or 225's I think your range may suffer... I decided to keep my current motors 1989 Johnson 150's. They smoke, love gas and run great. I might repower in 4 years. Good luck in your decision! Homey.
bwguardian	posted 01-31-2004 02:40 PM ET (US) jccbitnspur, I also have a 25' Outrage with twin '84 Mercury 150's (these are the best engines I have owned). I will be putting 225 EFI's on my 27' Guardian. One of the reasons I credit these engines in lasting so long is that I run Mercury High Five props on the 150's; hole shot along with engines bogging in a following sea on the way in after a day offshore is not a problem (I have even stuck the bow through a wave and the engines never let up). I also plan to utilize Mercury Revolution 4 props on the 27'. Running the boat as far as you do offshore I would put Yamaha 150 4-strokes or even consider the Suzuki 140 4-strokes either with a good pair of four or five blade props. Running 80 miles you will need the fuel economy if you get into a bad storm (and I know about that also living on the Gulf Coast). Calm Seas