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Author Topic:   Repower: Revenge 22 WT WD with Optimax 225

quattro20vt posted 01-30-2004 02:43 AM ET (US)
Got my Revenge back today from the shop with its new Optimax 225. I got a 2002 "Pacemaker" engine, Mercury's term for a re-manufactured unit with a full three-year warranty. The price difference from an 20404 unit is substantial. Email for more details.
I worked with a Mercury dealer out of Portland, Oregon, Cascade Marine Center, www.cascademarinecenter.com . Ken Estes is the proprietor, a very good experience so far. As Portland is a few hours away, Ken provided the name of a local shop he likes and has worked with before.
Only downside I've found is the WD does not set the engine back far enough away from the transom to allow the motor to fully tilt up—that's a big powerhead cowling! I'll have to come up with a wood block to support the motor for trailering (the skeg is too close to the ground for me if the motor is down to the top of the trim tubes).
Took it out for a quick familiarization cruise on the Columbia River. The Opti starts right up, no smoke, much quieter than the old EFI I had before.
Detailed performance reports will have to wait a bit, but we did get it up to about 36 kts (GPS measurements) going upstream...on a drift, the GPS showed about 3 kts, so perhaps 39 kts thru the water. At a 4000 rpm cruise, I recall about 22-25 kn. Kept it short. Had to drive home, and rain hurts at speed with no canvas up! This is a personal earliest boating day for me :)
-----------
For continuity, this was my original thread: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002233.html -- I'm amazed we strung together a 67 response thread that didn't get into flames, just some interesting questions to research and answer ;) Thanks everyone!

quattro20vt posted 02-09-2004 01:43 AM ET (US)
Took the Revenge out on Lake Washington yesterday...a buddy wanted a ride with the new power. Below are a few performance observations (RPM, MPH, GPH).
Conditions:
Temp: low to mid 40s, overcast
Wind: negl
Water: calm (mostly) to 6" waves (later in the afternoon)
Trim: varied (sorry...I didn't intend this to be really rigorous)
Flying top, windshield, side curtains & drop curtain set.
Load: 2 adults (325#) plus about 60 gallons fuel, no kicker
Propeller: Mercury Mirage Plus 17-inch Pitch

RPM MPH GPH
-------------------
3300 19 (not yet on plane)
3000 21 6.2 (just barely maintaining plane)
3200 22 6.5
3300 24
3400 6.8
3500 25
3600 7.8
3800 29 8.8
4000 10.1
4200 33 11.2
4500 36
4600 37
4800 38
5000 40
5500 44
Speeds were measured off a Garmin GPSMap 176, and in some cases, I suspect I took early speed readings and they may have stabilized a bit different after another 30 seconds or so at speed. Also, I did not take a drift/wind reading at a standstill; should have been minimal. Given the typical sampling displayed on the GPS, I am reporting without the tenth digit.
Based on the numbers above, it looks like 3600 RPM, 27 MPH is going to be my sweet spot for fuel efficiency; 3.4 MPG sounds pretty good! Time will tell if this is a good projection or not.
Hope some of you find this interesting!
John from Madison CT posted 02-09-2004 08:22 AM ET (US)
Quattro: Very very nice. Any time you can get 3mpg with a boat that size you should be happy. If the engine isn't broken in yet, your mileage will get better too. Enjoy it and good Luck.
John
jimp posted 02-09-2004 11:07 AM ET (US)
quattro20vt -
Congrats & good show.
As I've posted before, my 1990 Revenge 22 WT with 2003 Opti with 19" aluminum 3-blade cruises at 27.7 knots and 8.8 gph for 3.15 nmpg or 3.6 mpg. No canvas up, full tanks, 3740 rpm. Tops at about 39.5 kts (45.4 mph).
JimP
Billymac posted 02-10-2004 04:47 PM ET (US)
Guys,
How do you measure GPH? I am repowering an 1987 22 Revenge WT with Sea Drives. Looking at a 2003 used Evenrude 225hp DFI with an Armstrong Bracket. When it gets done I would like to be able to do full test.
Thanks,
Bill
quattro20vt posted 02-10-2004 05:50 PM ET (US)
GPH is from the Mercury SmartCraft gauge. This is the intelligent electronic gauge that reports on the state of the union, however, have to cycle thru the readings to find the figure you want, so you can't read RPM and GPH simultaneously. Fortunately, my old analog tach was hooked up as well, though that requires a second harness component. For $65 or so, I'll probably replace that old, original analog tach, as it reads differently from the digital tach by 100-200 rpm.
jimp posted 02-10-2004 05:59 PM ET (US)
The SmartCraft gauge that comes with the Merc Optimax 225 shows:
RPMs
Engine hours
Water pressure
Engine Temp
Volts
GPH
Fuel used
and other stuff that I haven't used.
The GPH is pretty accurate and is usually pretty close at the gas pump.
MPG is dividing your speed by gallons per hour. S/G=MPG 27.7 knots (from the GPS) divided by 8.8 GPH (from the SmartCraft gauge) = 3.15 nautical mpg.
I imagine a new 2003 Evinrude DFI would have something similar.
JimP

Howard Wright posted 06-26-2004 01:25 AM ET (US)
I have just purchased a 79 V-22 Revenge. It's in great shape, but the outboard, which is a 79 Johnson 235, is old. Since I live in California, and like to go up to Lake Tahoe every now and then, I wanted to repower with a 4 cycle outboard. Yamaha makes a 225, but weighs 580 pounds. I believe that the old Johnson only weighed 430 pounds (it also has a 79 Johnson 35hp kicker that weighs 112 pounds). The next horsepower down is 150 for Yamaha, which I'm afraid would be underpowered.
Anyone got any thoughts on powering this boat with a four-stroke engine? How would being 150 pounds overweight affect it, if at all?
andygere posted 06-26-2004 03:59 AM ET (US)
Howard, did you buy the Revenge that was parked near Bayside Marine? I see you are from Santa Cruz, as am I, also. I keep my Outrage 22 Cuddy in the harbor.
jimh posted 06-26-2004 08:01 AM ET (US)
I do not recall anyone having posted data about re-powering a large boat like a Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 WT WD with a single engine four-stroke. The weight of a single engine is not particularly important in an application like this because the WHALER DRIVE was designed to accommodate twin V-6 outboards that weighed about 450-pounds each. A single four-stroke, even the largest and heaviest of the breed like a VERADO, will weigh much less than twin V-6 engines.
Even the standard outboard model REVENGE 22 was rated for twin engines, and a pair of V-4 outboards probably weighed well over 700 pounds.
I am not certain where your point of reference is for the comment "being 150 pounds overweight." The boat was designed to handle at least 700 pounds on the transom.
There were no maximum weight figures given in the specifications for most classic-era Boston Whaler boats. In another article, a discussion provided some guidance on imputed maximum weights based on the current specifications from the Commercial and Government Products catalogue.
See:
Maximum Engine Weight
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002449.html
The REVENGE 22 hull is rated with a minimum of 90-HP, so a single 150-HP engine would give decent performance. However, I would not hesitate to use a larger engine because of its weight. There is little fear that a 580-pound four-stroke will be too much weight for this boat.
Howard Wright posted 06-26-2004 04:53 PM ET (US)
Jim - Thanks for the advise - the information is only what I saw on the weight of the current engine, and what the placard said on the limit to horsepower. I'm happy to hear that the V-22 is more than adequate to take that weight (plus I plan to add a kicker to replace the current 35hp kicker).
I wasn't planning on repowering with twins as, they cost more, fuel milage is not as good, and the cost of re-rigging would be a lot higher. Plus I had owned an old 18 Outrage for a number of years with twin 50 Yamahas, and it always seemed to be a bit heavy in the stern (and these were rated for twin 75's). I liked the performance, but the cost of maintainance was brutal.
And, yes, Andy, I was the one that bought that Whaler near Bayside Marine in Santa Cruz. I'll probably see you on the water.
Peter posted 06-26-2004 08:46 PM ET (US)
Howard, if you are concerned about transom weight, as you should be, and need to be CARB 3 Star compliant, take a look at the E-TEC 200, 225, 250s when they come out this fall. They will be the lightest CARB 3 Star V6 outboard in the market. 25 inch model will weigh ~ 520 lbs (~60 lbs lighter than the Yamaha or Suzuki V6 4s and a whopping 130 lbs lighter than the Verado).
Having owned a 22 Revenge, a 150 will not be enough and keeping as much weight off the transom as possible is a good thing!

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Author	Topic: Repower: Revenge 22 WT WD with Optimax 225
quattro20vt	posted 01-30-2004 02:43 AM ET (US) Got my Revenge back today from the shop with its new Optimax 225. I got a 2002 "Pacemaker" engine, Mercury's term for a re-manufactured unit with a full three-year warranty. The price difference from an 20404 unit is substantial. Email for more details. I worked with a Mercury dealer out of Portland, Oregon, Cascade Marine Center, www.cascademarinecenter.com . Ken Estes is the proprietor, a very good experience so far. As Portland is a few hours away, Ken provided the name of a local shop he likes and has worked with before. Only downside I've found is the WD does not set the engine back far enough away from the transom to allow the motor to fully tilt up—that's a big powerhead cowling! I'll have to come up with a wood block to support the motor for trailering (the skeg is too close to the ground for me if the motor is down to the top of the trim tubes). Took it out for a quick familiarization cruise on the Columbia River. The Opti starts right up, no smoke, much quieter than the old EFI I had before. Detailed performance reports will have to wait a bit, but we did get it up to about 36 kts (GPS measurements) going upstream...on a drift, the GPS showed about 3 kts, so perhaps 39 kts thru the water. At a 4000 rpm cruise, I recall about 22-25 kn. Kept it short. Had to drive home, and rain hurts at speed with no canvas up! This is a personal earliest boating day for me :) ----------- For continuity, this was my original thread: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002233.html -- I'm amazed we strung together a 67 response thread that didn't get into flames, just some interesting questions to research and answer ;) Thanks everyone!
quattro20vt	posted 02-09-2004 01:43 AM ET (US) Took the Revenge out on Lake Washington yesterday...a buddy wanted a ride with the new power. Below are a few performance observations (RPM, MPH, GPH). Conditions: Temp: low to mid 40s, overcast Wind: negl Water: calm (mostly) to 6" waves (later in the afternoon) Trim: varied (sorry...I didn't intend this to be really rigorous) Flying top, windshield, side curtains & drop curtain set. Load: 2 adults (325#) plus about 60 gallons fuel, no kicker Propeller: Mercury Mirage Plus 17-inch Pitch RPM MPH GPH ------------------- 3300 19 (not yet on plane) 3000 21 6.2 (just barely maintaining plane) 3200 22 6.5 3300 24 3400 6.8 3500 25 3600 7.8 3800 29 8.8 4000 10.1 4200 33 11.2 4500 36 4600 37 4800 38 5000 40 5500 44 Speeds were measured off a Garmin GPSMap 176, and in some cases, I suspect I took early speed readings and they may have stabilized a bit different after another 30 seconds or so at speed. Also, I did not take a drift/wind reading at a standstill; should have been minimal. Given the typical sampling displayed on the GPS, I am reporting without the tenth digit. Based on the numbers above, it looks like 3600 RPM, 27 MPH is going to be my sweet spot for fuel efficiency; 3.4 MPG sounds pretty good! Time will tell if this is a good projection or not. Hope some of you find this interesting!
John from Madison CT	posted 02-09-2004 08:22 AM ET (US) Quattro: Very very nice. Any time you can get 3mpg with a boat that size you should be happy. If the engine isn't broken in yet, your mileage will get better too. Enjoy it and good Luck. John
jimp	posted 02-09-2004 11:07 AM ET (US) quattro20vt - Congrats & good show. As I've posted before, my 1990 Revenge 22 WT with 2003 Opti with 19" aluminum 3-blade cruises at 27.7 knots and 8.8 gph for 3.15 nmpg or 3.6 mpg. No canvas up, full tanks, 3740 rpm. Tops at about 39.5 kts (45.4 mph). JimP
Billymac	posted 02-10-2004 04:47 PM ET (US) Guys, How do you measure GPH? I am repowering an 1987 22 Revenge WT with Sea Drives. Looking at a 2003 used Evenrude 225hp DFI with an Armstrong Bracket. When it gets done I would like to be able to do full test. Thanks, Bill
quattro20vt	posted 02-10-2004 05:50 PM ET (US) GPH is from the Mercury SmartCraft gauge. This is the intelligent electronic gauge that reports on the state of the union, however, have to cycle thru the readings to find the figure you want, so you can't read RPM and GPH simultaneously. Fortunately, my old analog tach was hooked up as well, though that requires a second harness component. For $65 or so, I'll probably replace that old, original analog tach, as it reads differently from the digital tach by 100-200 rpm.
jimp	posted 02-10-2004 05:59 PM ET (US) The SmartCraft gauge that comes with the Merc Optimax 225 shows: RPMs Engine hours Water pressure Engine Temp Volts GPH Fuel used and other stuff that I haven't used. The GPH is pretty accurate and is usually pretty close at the gas pump. MPG is dividing your speed by gallons per hour. S/G=MPG 27.7 knots (from the GPS) divided by 8.8 GPH (from the SmartCraft gauge) = 3.15 nautical mpg. I imagine a new 2003 Evinrude DFI would have something similar. JimP
Howard Wright	posted 06-26-2004 01:25 AM ET (US) I have just purchased a 79 V-22 Revenge. It's in great shape, but the outboard, which is a 79 Johnson 235, is old. Since I live in California, and like to go up to Lake Tahoe every now and then, I wanted to repower with a 4 cycle outboard. Yamaha makes a 225, but weighs 580 pounds. I believe that the old Johnson only weighed 430 pounds (it also has a 79 Johnson 35hp kicker that weighs 112 pounds). The next horsepower down is 150 for Yamaha, which I'm afraid would be underpowered. Anyone got any thoughts on powering this boat with a four-stroke engine? How would being 150 pounds overweight affect it, if at all?
andygere	posted 06-26-2004 03:59 AM ET (US) Howard, did you buy the Revenge that was parked near Bayside Marine? I see you are from Santa Cruz, as am I, also. I keep my Outrage 22 Cuddy in the harbor.
jimh	posted 06-26-2004 08:01 AM ET (US) I do not recall anyone having posted data about re-powering a large boat like a Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 WT WD with a single engine four-stroke. The weight of a single engine is not particularly important in an application like this because the WHALER DRIVE was designed to accommodate twin V-6 outboards that weighed about 450-pounds each. A single four-stroke, even the largest and heaviest of the breed like a VERADO, will weigh much less than twin V-6 engines. Even the standard outboard model REVENGE 22 was rated for twin engines, and a pair of V-4 outboards probably weighed well over 700 pounds. I am not certain where your point of reference is for the comment "being 150 pounds overweight." The boat was designed to handle at least 700 pounds on the transom. There were no maximum weight figures given in the specifications for most classic-era Boston Whaler boats. In another article, a discussion provided some guidance on imputed maximum weights based on the current specifications from the Commercial and Government Products catalogue. See: Maximum Engine Weight http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002449.html The REVENGE 22 hull is rated with a minimum of 90-HP, so a single 150-HP engine would give decent performance. However, I would not hesitate to use a larger engine because of its weight. There is little fear that a 580-pound four-stroke will be too much weight for this boat.
Howard Wright	posted 06-26-2004 04:53 PM ET (US) Jim - Thanks for the advise - the information is only what I saw on the weight of the current engine, and what the placard said on the limit to horsepower. I'm happy to hear that the V-22 is more than adequate to take that weight (plus I plan to add a kicker to replace the current 35hp kicker). I wasn't planning on repowering with twins as, they cost more, fuel milage is not as good, and the cost of re-rigging would be a lot higher. Plus I had owned an old 18 Outrage for a number of years with twin 50 Yamahas, and it always seemed to be a bit heavy in the stern (and these were rated for twin 75's). I liked the performance, but the cost of maintainance was brutal. And, yes, Andy, I was the one that bought that Whaler near Bayside Marine in Santa Cruz. I'll probably see you on the water.
Peter	posted 06-26-2004 08:46 PM ET (US) Howard, if you are concerned about transom weight, as you should be, and need to be CARB 3 Star compliant, take a look at the E-TEC 200, 225, 250s when they come out this fall. They will be the lightest CARB 3 Star V6 outboard in the market. 25 inch model will weigh ~ 520 lbs (~60 lbs lighter than the Yamaha or Suzuki V6 4s and a whopping 130 lbs lighter than the Verado). Having owned a 22 Revenge, a 150 will not be enough and keeping as much weight off the transom as possible is a good thing!