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  22 Revenge repower - 200 vs. 225 hp?

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Author Topic:   22 Revenge repower - 200 vs. 225 hp?
Billymac posted 01-30-2004 10:54 AM ET (US)   Profile for Billymac   Send Email to Billymac  
Repowering a full transom, currently with twin sea drives (for sale: see Marketplace), 87' 22 Revenge WT. Going to be dropped on an Armstrong bracket. Twins not an opiton (too expensive and not necessary for L. Michigan - Chicago) so looking at a single dicounted new or late model used 200 or 225hp. Will the 200 give me adequate performance with a bracket? I would be very happy with a top speed in the mid to upper 30's with full fuel (77 gal.) and 2-4 passengers.

Certainly like the optimax, any other suggestions, or engine make/model/years to stay away from?

Any help greatly appreciated!
Bill

lhg posted 01-30-2004 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
We get many requests for re-powering help and information on this website. Currently, to be able to give someone reasonably valid feedback, we need to know, most importantly, whether the prospective purchaser wants 2-stroke emissions, or the newer clean technologies.

I urge everyone making requests like this to give us this indication, as it makes a big difference in recommendations.
Since usually everyone wants a good deal & good performance, the 2-strokes are hard to beat in this category. Weight can often be a problem with the clean engines.

In the case of Bill's request here, I would agree with Mercury's general recommendation, and try to power as close to max rating as possible, in this case 225 HP. I would definitely use 30" shaft engine, (the equivalent of twin 25") which will keep the powerhead high and dry. I have noticed BW is also using 30" singles on the new 22 Guardians. Bracketed setups tend to not accelerate as fast as other setups, so I would not further aggrivate this situation by getting a 4-stroke.

My own choice would be a Merc 225 EFI. But if want to go "clean", the only warnings would be all OMC built Fichts 2001 and older, 200/225 Optimax's 2001 (a bad parts production run evidently occurred in that year, resulting in varied problems). There were also some Yamaha HPDI problems, but I don't know this history. Any DFI 2003 and newer should be fine, but at 225 HP, Yamaha has no offering, so your choices are Merc or Evinrude.

Billymac posted 02-02-2004 10:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for Billymac  Send Email to Billymac     
My first choice would probably be a "clean" 2-stroke DFI, Optimax, Evenrude or Yamaha. Because of cost and weight, I am not really considering 4-strokes unless a great deal fell in my lap. I am trying to do the whole thing for south of $12K, which means spending around $8-9K on the engine.

So based on your lookouts ideally I am looking for a 2002 Optimax or Ficht 200 or 225, or Yamaha HPDI 200 (will do more reaserch on any problem history on the HPDI). Second would be an EFI 225 Merc or Yamaha.

As far as the shaft lentgh, I was under the assumption that with the Armstrong bracket's setback that a 25" shaft would be the ticket, 30" potentially too much drag? I will check with Armstrong with the hull specs and see what they recommend and see how much ajustment can be made up and down on the bracket. I certainly don't want to swamp the engine but we don't get too many salmon on Lake Michigan we have to back down on ;)

I was under the impression that the bracket will improve hole shots and acceleration? Cleaner water, etc.?

Thanks,
Bill

macfam posted 02-02-2004 11:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for macfam  Send Email to macfam     
Bill,
My brother has the Yamaha 200 hp HPDI on a 22, I've got Yamaha OX66 EFI 250 on a 25. Top speed for both are identical.
42 mph.
I would prefer the HPDI over my OX66 anyday.
I have 0 complaints with the Ox66 250. Bullet-proof.
My 25 Walk-thru perform really well, all things considered.

But the HPDI is quieter, starts easy, and noticably less, in fact, barely any, smoke. It uses about 1/2 the Yamalube oil, at $15 bucks a gallon, and about 2/3 the fuel. It also has been bullet-proof. Overall performance outstanding.
I really believe, with the exception of the 'ficht' OMC problems, all the outboards available today are great.
But don't rule out an HPDI.
Just one man's opinion.

Bob

lhg posted 02-02-2004 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
There is no difference in water drag between a 20", 25" or 30" engine, as this shaft length is above the anti-ventilation plate. What runs in the water is the same on all.

Since a 22 or 25 Whaler should run 25" twins, (see photos of my 25 Outrage on this site, with 25" twins on Armstrong bracket), for a single, a 30" engine would be the equivalent. Finding a used 30" single in the Midwest market could be a problem. In FL they are commonly used on the larger boats, and I often see them as leftover new models. A 25" engine would certainly work, but the 30 would be a better application. Mercury makes the Saltwater 200 & 225 Optimax in 30" length, right or left hand.

The 30" engine will also allow the engine to fully tilt on a 26" setback bracket. Order the single engine bracket with side platforms matching the width of the RAISED portion of the transom, no wider. That way you will be able to run stern facing downriggers of each corner.

Billymac posted 02-04-2004 03:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Billymac  Send Email to Billymac     
Talked to the guys at Armstrong, they said they will build the bracket custom for either a 25" or 30" shaft. The brackets are now 30" setback so fully tilting a 25" is not a problem. He said 25" for this application is what he recommends but I will see what we find in the way of a used outboard.

Great advice on the width in the back to allow for dropping downriggers, never thought of that and we do have them right there.

lhg, I saw the pics of your boat, very nice!!! Looks like you take that rig everywhere!

coleman posted 02-06-2004 01:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for coleman  Send Email to coleman     
Check out argmarine.com for used and rebuilt big outboards. Florida market motors, mostly 25". I'm repowering with one in a month or so.
Fishcop posted 02-07-2004 07:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Fishcop  Send Email to Fishcop     
Billymac,

Just so happens that I have my boat in the front yard today.

I have a 1987 Outrage 25' Cuddy. Full transom with a 30" single Armstrong full width bracket. It has a 2000 225hp Optimax XL (25") shaft mounted in the second hole from the top.

When backing down on fish in a large sea, the water will hit the top of the cowling. Talked to Mercury about water intrusion and they said not a problem with the gaskets on the cowling.

I also called Armstrong about the shaft length (I got the boat as it is with the bracket and motor and was concerned about the motor height). They stated either the XL or XLL would work on a 30" bracket.

I have 450+ hours on this combo and still runnig and performing fine. Just be aware that it is recommended to use OEM parts and Oil from Mercury(if you decide to buy one). The Optimax oil is not as inexpensive as your Wal-Mart oil. The six spark plugs just cost me $74. I burn very little fuel/oil when running offshore and when trolling for salmon/tuna. I also have found that the bracket is a nice place to land fish and provides added flotation at the stern.

As far as performance, I would go with a 225hp. As LHG pointed out, your choice is driven by price and usage. My 225hp Optimax pushes my 25' Outrage at 42mph fully loaded. A similar set up on your 22' should get better results and use less fuel.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Andy

Billymac posted 02-10-2004 12:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Billymac  Send Email to Billymac     
I have an oportunity to pick up a 2003 Evinrude DFI 225 hp for $9000 (maybe a bit less) and it is within driving distance from Chicago. Warrentee through May 2006.

Any comments on the 2003 Evinrude DFI 225hp, problems, history, etc.? It belongs to a pro fisherman who hit a channel marker, totalled his boat and is now switching sponsors. Says the engine is perfect, unharmed but the accident. I assume it has enough hours so any big problems would have occurred, but I will have it fully inspected.

Thanks,
Bill

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