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Author Topic:   Outrage 18 repower

crashq posted 02-01-2004 03:47 PM ET (US)
I am currently looking to repower my 1983 Outrage 18. I am looking at the Johnson/Suzuki 140 4-stroke and the Yamaha 150 4-stroke (the Yamaha or Evinrudes are also an option).
I am concerned with the weight of the Yamaha (466lbs) being to much for attitude of the boat at rest. I originally had a 1983 V-4 Evinrude 140 which weighed in at 320lbs and a 15hp Evinrude kicker that weighed in at around 100-110 lbs. Although the old boats didn't have a max weight rating, I saw another thread which gave a max weight value for the Guardian 18 at around 450-500 lbs. With my old motors, the total weight was about 420 lbs. With a new main motor this would increase to ~520lbs (w/Suzuki)or ~566 lbs (Yamaha 4-stroke) or ~576 (Yamaha HPDI 2-stroke). Does anyone have experience with these motors (and a kicker)on an 18? If so, how close does the transom sit to the waterline (I use my boat almost exclusively in the ocean)? How do these motors affect the planing? How is the top speed affected?
Any opinions on whether I should go for the lighter motor(420lbs) or the heavier 150(466-476lbs)?
P.S. Anypne have experience dealing with eds Marine superstore in Ashland Virginia? I would have to ship the motor across the country (to CA). If they are reputable, it would save me about $1300-1800 plus $700-800 in taxes?
Perry posted 02-01-2004 06:11 PM ET (US)
Do you really think you need a kicker with a brand new motor?
crashq posted 02-01-2004 06:29 PM ET (US)
I probably do not "need" the kicker with a new motor, but there are always other fuel, mechanical, and electrical issues that can cripple a new engine. When we go out albacore fishing we are usually 20-40 miles, so the the extra motor is nice insurance. I have had to tow a couple of boats in and got towed once myself (not albacore fishing). When I got towed, the kicker seized, and there was an electrical (ground)issue with the main motor that serviced two years after it was created by a mechanic.
rjgorion posted 02-01-2004 07:08 PM ET (US)
crash...
I recently repowered my Outrage 18 with the F150 and could not be happier. The static trim was not adversely affected. However, I did move my batteries under the console prior to the repower. I only have 7.5 hours on it so far, so I cannot give you performance figures (in terms of top speed, mileage, etc) yet, but I can tell you that it is very smooth running, quiet and has plenty of power. Right now I'm running a 14 x 19 aluminum prop but after it is fully broken in and I have a better idea of WOT rpms, I will invest in a stainlees prop and keep the aluminum as a backup. Good luck with your repower.
Ron
lhg posted 02-01-2004 10:48 PM ET (US)
As an owner of an 18 Outrage, I would not go out fishing 40 miles with a big single and a kicker. The boat is too small. You should be seriously looking at twins. For the price of that Yamaha 150 & kicker, you can easily get a pair of Yamaha 70's90's, or Merc 75's/90's, in 2-stroke variety. That's what I would do, and have done!
crashq posted 02-01-2004 11:20 PM ET (US)
Normally I don't go that far out; only on a couple occasions. By being out that far I mean out of the harbor, not straight offshore. Typical distances are 15-25 miles offshore. I fish albacore out of Monterey Bay and Half Moon Bay, CA only in the summertime. This is the non-stormy season, although we can get wind that time of year. I pick and choose the days. With the benefit of satellite photos and an offshore buoy (300 miles out), it is fairly easy to pick the calm days. We head in at the first sign of wind ( either on the radio or on the water). In this area, the swell is always toward shore. I also only go out on days when there are lots of boats (weekends)and never out of radio range of the local coast guard station.
I have used the kicker to travel shoreward and made between 5 and 8 knots. It is slow going, but enought to control the boat comfortably and to get within the wind shadow of the shoreline in reasonable time.
With a judicious helping of commeon sense, this kind of fishing is doable and safe. Now my buddy has a 21 foot Grady-White, so we will buddy boat.
Regarding the twins,here in california the law requires either direct injection or 4-stroke (via tight emissions requirements). A pair of Yamaha 4-stroke 75s weighs in at 740 lbs. Unless there are direct injected 70s or 90s these are not a realistic option.
lhg posted 02-01-2004 11:54 PM ET (US)
I was not aware that CA no longer allows SALE of conventional 2-stroke engines.
jimh posted 02-02-2004 08:45 AM ET (US)
I was not aware that the State of California could regulate outboard motors being used 40 miles offshore in the Pacific!
whalersman posted 02-02-2004 11:54 AM ET (US)
Last year the Dealers in the state of California, could not sell ANY 2 Stroke outboards.
I even went across the border to Oregon and was told by Dealers there that they could not sell 2 Strokes to people who live in California..
The State of California has way too many Radical Environmentalists with nothing better to do then come up with these ideas. I don't know if they actually think about these ideas first, or if these ideas just happen to pop into their head one day and then they start sueing people and/or making these ideas of theirs California Law...
At any rate, you cannot buy 2 strokes in California unless they changed things a little bit like crashq mentioned and allows the selling of 2 Stroke Direct Injection engines.
Joe Kriz
lhg posted 02-02-2004 02:04 PM ET (US)
Is the State of California allowing diesel trucks to cross the border from Mexico, complete with bad brakes and polluting exhaust? Actually the diesel air pollution in CA is so bad that they had to reduce the exhaust smoke from a few thousand idling outboards!
Perry posted 02-02-2004 03:38 PM ET (US)
Trucks entering the US from Mexico at the border in San Diego must meet the strict requirements that CA has in place. The distance they can travel is also limited. The Goverment is trying to lift the travel ban so they can go further up the coast.
mfrymier posted 02-03-2004 01:39 PM ET (US)
I vote for Twin Evinrude ETEC 70's...
just a thought! Lighter than 4 stroke, less maintenence, just as good on the mileage and noise -- also supposedly AWESOME at trolling speeds. If you buy right now you get a 7 year warranty (or cash back!) They would be a bit heavier, but boy would it be a sweet ride....
hooter posted 02-03-2004 10:59 PM ET (US)
Ah say drive to Nevada and buy anydamn thing you want to and have it installed on your rig there. Screw all the gotdam treehuggin' democrats in California, ever' one of 'em:-!
onlyawhaler posted 02-04-2004 09:38 AM ET (US)
Hi Joe,
When you mentioned earlier that you could not buy "any two stroke outboard in California" did you mean literally that, any at all? Does that include EFIs and DFIs or did you mean carb two strokes only?
Sterling
Tom2697 posted 02-11-2004 12:33 AM ET (US)
I don't think you would be disappointed with either motor. I put the Suzuki on my boat before Yamaha or Honda introduced their 4-stroke 150's. I also keep twin batteries in the stern of my boat as well as a 10 gallon livewell. The water will be up to or over the scuppers with all of this weight but the boat still pops up on plane easily.
Regarding a kicker, I agree with Perry and since you already follow the buddy system, there is your kicker.
I tried dealing with Ed's but found two reasons why I didn't/couldn't buy from them. In Texas, we register our outboards. Because of this, I would've had to pay taxes on the motor as well as the shipping. The price would've still been about $300 cheaper than I got mine for but then I would've had to rig it myslef. The 2nd reason is they wouldn't accept a credit card. They wanted me to send a certified check. I didn't have that much disposable money in the bank at the time to do so, so I bought it locally.
Good luck in your decision!
Tom
tbyrne posted 02-11-2004 08:56 AM ET (US)
You should take a look at "Powerboat Reports" magazine/website - they recently did a comparison test on the Yamaha 150, Suzuki 140 and the Honda 130 (or 150, I forget). The Yamaha came out far ahead of the Suzuki in the performance department.
lhg posted 02-19-2004 03:59 PM ET (US)
For only a 10 Hp advantage, (7 percent), the performance differences should have been minimal. Unless you're not getting what you're paying for.
FSHN FOOL posted 02-19-2004 04:32 PM ET (US)
I put a 135 Mercury optimax 2 stroke on my 87 18 ft. outrage. It runs out at 40-42 miles per hr. it seems to be getting fairly good gas mileage.This is cal.legal 2-stroke.
whalersman posted 02-19-2004 04:53 PM ET (US)
onlyawhaler,
Sterling, during the year 2001 or 2002, Outboard dealers were not allowed to sell any "NEW" 2 Stroke engines.... PERIOD... As mentioned above, the State of Oregon was not even allowed to sell 2 Strokes to people who live in California.. I am not sure about Nevada...
California has since changed this as many of the newer 2 Strokes are 2006 EPA rated...
Leave it to California to have their head somewhere where the Sun doesn't shine... I have no idea why they call it the Sunshine State... :-)
Joe Kriz
lhg posted 02-19-2004 08:55 PM ET (US)
Joe - that's why you needed a new Governor. Now if only you get a new legislature & some new judges, maybe there'd be some hope!

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Author	Topic: Outrage 18 repower
crashq	posted 02-01-2004 03:47 PM ET (US) I am currently looking to repower my 1983 Outrage 18. I am looking at the Johnson/Suzuki 140 4-stroke and the Yamaha 150 4-stroke (the Yamaha or Evinrudes are also an option). I am concerned with the weight of the Yamaha (466lbs) being to much for attitude of the boat at rest. I originally had a 1983 V-4 Evinrude 140 which weighed in at 320lbs and a 15hp Evinrude kicker that weighed in at around 100-110 lbs. Although the old boats didn't have a max weight rating, I saw another thread which gave a max weight value for the Guardian 18 at around 450-500 lbs. With my old motors, the total weight was about 420 lbs. With a new main motor this would increase to ~520lbs (w/Suzuki)or ~566 lbs (Yamaha 4-stroke) or ~576 (Yamaha HPDI 2-stroke). Does anyone have experience with these motors (and a kicker)on an 18? If so, how close does the transom sit to the waterline (I use my boat almost exclusively in the ocean)? How do these motors affect the planing? How is the top speed affected? Any opinions on whether I should go for the lighter motor(420lbs) or the heavier 150(466-476lbs)? P.S. Anypne have experience dealing with eds Marine superstore in Ashland Virginia? I would have to ship the motor across the country (to CA). If they are reputable, it would save me about $1300-1800 plus $700-800 in taxes?
Perry	posted 02-01-2004 06:11 PM ET (US) Do you really think you need a kicker with a brand new motor?
crashq	posted 02-01-2004 06:29 PM ET (US) I probably do not "need" the kicker with a new motor, but there are always other fuel, mechanical, and electrical issues that can cripple a new engine. When we go out albacore fishing we are usually 20-40 miles, so the the extra motor is nice insurance. I have had to tow a couple of boats in and got towed once myself (not albacore fishing). When I got towed, the kicker seized, and there was an electrical (ground)issue with the main motor that serviced two years after it was created by a mechanic.
rjgorion	posted 02-01-2004 07:08 PM ET (US) crash... I recently repowered my Outrage 18 with the F150 and could not be happier. The static trim was not adversely affected. However, I did move my batteries under the console prior to the repower. I only have 7.5 hours on it so far, so I cannot give you performance figures (in terms of top speed, mileage, etc) yet, but I can tell you that it is very smooth running, quiet and has plenty of power. Right now I'm running a 14 x 19 aluminum prop but after it is fully broken in and I have a better idea of WOT rpms, I will invest in a stainlees prop and keep the aluminum as a backup. Good luck with your repower. Ron
lhg	posted 02-01-2004 10:48 PM ET (US) As an owner of an 18 Outrage, I would not go out fishing 40 miles with a big single and a kicker. The boat is too small. You should be seriously looking at twins. For the price of that Yamaha 150 & kicker, you can easily get a pair of Yamaha 70's90's, or Merc 75's/90's, in 2-stroke variety. That's what I would do, and have done!
crashq	posted 02-01-2004 11:20 PM ET (US) Normally I don't go that far out; only on a couple occasions. By being out that far I mean out of the harbor, not straight offshore. Typical distances are 15-25 miles offshore. I fish albacore out of Monterey Bay and Half Moon Bay, CA only in the summertime. This is the non-stormy season, although we can get wind that time of year. I pick and choose the days. With the benefit of satellite photos and an offshore buoy (300 miles out), it is fairly easy to pick the calm days. We head in at the first sign of wind ( either on the radio or on the water). In this area, the swell is always toward shore. I also only go out on days when there are lots of boats (weekends)and never out of radio range of the local coast guard station. I have used the kicker to travel shoreward and made between 5 and 8 knots. It is slow going, but enought to control the boat comfortably and to get within the wind shadow of the shoreline in reasonable time. With a judicious helping of commeon sense, this kind of fishing is doable and safe. Now my buddy has a 21 foot Grady-White, so we will buddy boat. Regarding the twins,here in california the law requires either direct injection or 4-stroke (via tight emissions requirements). A pair of Yamaha 4-stroke 75s weighs in at 740 lbs. Unless there are direct injected 70s or 90s these are not a realistic option.
lhg	posted 02-01-2004 11:54 PM ET (US) I was not aware that CA no longer allows SALE of conventional 2-stroke engines.
jimh	posted 02-02-2004 08:45 AM ET (US) I was not aware that the State of California could regulate outboard motors being used 40 miles offshore in the Pacific!
whalersman	posted 02-02-2004 11:54 AM ET (US) Last year the Dealers in the state of California, could not sell ANY 2 Stroke outboards. I even went across the border to Oregon and was told by Dealers there that they could not sell 2 Strokes to people who live in California.. The State of California has way too many Radical Environmentalists with nothing better to do then come up with these ideas. I don't know if they actually think about these ideas first, or if these ideas just happen to pop into their head one day and then they start sueing people and/or making these ideas of theirs California Law... At any rate, you cannot buy 2 strokes in California unless they changed things a little bit like crashq mentioned and allows the selling of 2 Stroke Direct Injection engines. Joe Kriz
lhg	posted 02-02-2004 02:04 PM ET (US) Is the State of California allowing diesel trucks to cross the border from Mexico, complete with bad brakes and polluting exhaust? Actually the diesel air pollution in CA is so bad that they had to reduce the exhaust smoke from a few thousand idling outboards!
Perry	posted 02-02-2004 03:38 PM ET (US) Trucks entering the US from Mexico at the border in San Diego must meet the strict requirements that CA has in place. The distance they can travel is also limited. The Goverment is trying to lift the travel ban so they can go further up the coast.
mfrymier	posted 02-03-2004 01:39 PM ET (US) I vote for Twin Evinrude ETEC 70's... just a thought! Lighter than 4 stroke, less maintenence, just as good on the mileage and noise -- also supposedly AWESOME at trolling speeds. If you buy right now you get a 7 year warranty (or cash back!) They would be a bit heavier, but boy would it be a sweet ride....
hooter	posted 02-03-2004 10:59 PM ET (US) Ah say drive to Nevada and buy anydamn thing you want to and have it installed on your rig there. Screw all the gotdam treehuggin' democrats in California, ever' one of 'em:-!
onlyawhaler	posted 02-04-2004 09:38 AM ET (US) Hi Joe, When you mentioned earlier that you could not buy "any two stroke outboard in California" did you mean literally that, any at all? Does that include EFIs and DFIs or did you mean carb two strokes only? Sterling
Tom2697	posted 02-11-2004 12:33 AM ET (US) I don't think you would be disappointed with either motor. I put the Suzuki on my boat before Yamaha or Honda introduced their 4-stroke 150's. I also keep twin batteries in the stern of my boat as well as a 10 gallon livewell. The water will be up to or over the scuppers with all of this weight but the boat still pops up on plane easily. Regarding a kicker, I agree with Perry and since you already follow the buddy system, there is your kicker. I tried dealing with Ed's but found two reasons why I didn't/couldn't buy from them. In Texas, we register our outboards. Because of this, I would've had to pay taxes on the motor as well as the shipping. The price would've still been about $300 cheaper than I got mine for but then I would've had to rig it myslef. The 2nd reason is they wouldn't accept a credit card. They wanted me to send a certified check. I didn't have that much disposable money in the bank at the time to do so, so I bought it locally. Good luck in your decision! Tom
tbyrne	posted 02-11-2004 08:56 AM ET (US) You should take a look at "Powerboat Reports" magazine/website - they recently did a comparison test on the Yamaha 150, Suzuki 140 and the Honda 130 (or 150, I forget). The Yamaha came out far ahead of the Suzuki in the performance department.
lhg	posted 02-19-2004 03:59 PM ET (US) For only a 10 Hp advantage, (7 percent), the performance differences should have been minimal. Unless you're not getting what you're paying for.
FSHN FOOL	posted 02-19-2004 04:32 PM ET (US) I put a 135 Mercury optimax 2 stroke on my 87 18 ft. outrage. It runs out at 40-42 miles per hr. it seems to be getting fairly good gas mileage.This is cal.legal 2-stroke.
whalersman	posted 02-19-2004 04:53 PM ET (US) onlyawhaler, Sterling, during the year 2001 or 2002, Outboard dealers were not allowed to sell any "NEW" 2 Stroke engines.... PERIOD... As mentioned above, the State of Oregon was not even allowed to sell 2 Strokes to people who live in California.. I am not sure about Nevada... California has since changed this as many of the newer 2 Strokes are 2006 EPA rated... Leave it to California to have their head somewhere where the Sun doesn't shine... I have no idea why they call it the Sunshine State... :-) Joe Kriz
lhg	posted 02-19-2004 08:55 PM ET (US) Joe - that's why you needed a new Governor. Now if only you get a new legislature & some new judges, maybe there'd be some hope!