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  Another Revenge repowers....

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Author Topic:   Another Revenge repowers....
rehenderson posted 02-15-2004 11:55 PM ET (US)   Profile for rehenderson   Send Email to rehenderson  
I'm about to pull the trigger on a 200 hp Yamaha OX66 for my 1983 Revenge Cuddy (22') which will replace a 1983 200 hp Johnson. Great price, low weight, reliability and good cruising efficiency are factors in my decision not to go 4 stroke or HPDI- all wisdom (and criticism) much appreciated- thanks in advance.
Clark Roberts posted 02-16-2004 09:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
Re, in my opinion you made an excellent choice. That engine or the 2.5L 200 EFI Merc are good choices for dependable GREAT performance. Have a ball.. Clark ... Spruce Creek Navy
Billymac posted 02-16-2004 10:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for Billymac  Send Email to Billymac     
I am doing a Revenge repower as well. I personally don't see the big advantage in 4-strokes when compared to the new "Clean" DFI technology 2-strokes. So in my opinion and for my boat it is a DFI vs. EFI question. I am not spending the bucks for a new motor but hoping to get a slightly used one. Because I have not priced new, I don't know the price diff in the two new, I would guess $1500-$2500?

I really liket the DFI (HDPI for Yamys) for several reasons. Better runner (smoother, quieter, less smoke) at low RPMs and much better fuel efficency for trolling. Same advantages at higher RPMs. For me I would ratter burn less gas and oil even if I don't use it enough to justify the price difference. All that being said, if I can't find a late model DFI at a resonable price, I will go with an EFI if I find a good deal.

Either way a new engine vs. the 1980's technology will be a big upgrade. I can't wait to get mine done!

Good luck!
Bill

rehenderson posted 02-16-2004 10:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for rehenderson  Send Email to rehenderson     
Thanks, guys. You are right where I am....if I came across a great HPDI deal I would probably jump on it- but I haven't found that (and in this case the price spread between the deals is more like $3-4K). Now if Tom, Sal and Bigshot will tell me what I need to do....
Bigshot posted 02-17-2004 03:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Personally i would find a 225hp....never hurts to have the power. I love 4 strokes and if I repower my 20' Hydra-Sports I will be buying either a 225hp Johnson/Suzuki or a 225HO Evinrude Ficht. If I was a merc man I would probably opt for the Mercury Optimax XS engine.....I am not a Merc man. Yamahas are great engines but no better than an OMC so why spend the extra 20% premium? Search EVERY marina and dealer in your state and shop e-bay for a nice 2002 leftover or a clean used one. Many people trade-up because they are underpowered or want a 4 stroke, etc.
jimp posted 02-17-2004 03:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimp  Send Email to jimp     
After just repowering (last year) my 1990 Revenge 22 WT with a 2003 Merc 225 Optimax, I'd go with larger engine (225 vs 200). May help in resale down the line.

JimP

lhg posted 02-19-2004 03:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Nobody has yet mentioned the lowly Merc 225 EFI, really putting out about 240 horses. Hottest, quietest 225 on the water (except for Verado?). Get'em while you can, since 2005 is the last year. Just saw four new ones on a US Customs 39 Midnight Express! A Revenge 22 should do 50 with one of these. Yamaha no longer makes a 225 OX66.
quattro20vt posted 02-19-2004 05:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for quattro20vt  Send Email to quattro20vt     
I considered the Merc 225 EFI in my repower decision...and went Opti 225 instead. A large part of the equation in my situation was the availability of a 2002 factory reman (Pacemaker) Opti for less than a 2003 non-current (but new) EFI. Granted, you can get the factory extended warranty with new motors (n/a for Pacemaker) but the price diff from new was substantial.

Looking at the rest of your factors...

Weight: there is at most a 55# difference in the weight of these: 225 Opti (508#, sticker on my o/b) vs 225 EFI (479#, Merc website) vs Yamaha 200 OX66 (453#, 2002 Yam brochure)--leave one kid at home :) For the 22' hull, not significant. The 2.5l 200 EFI is substantially lighter (433#)

Range: the Opti has it all over EFI, and 4s is a bit better yet (over Opti, but not significantly). From several dealers I spoke with, the word was EFI vs. carb = negligible difference, DFI vs EFI/Carb = as much as 40-50% better range. I figure my range has gone from about 135 miles to 210 miles with the Opti--more than anything I'm likely to do, but it also means I can avoid the fuel dock at Neah Bay ($4.00/gal?) on two trips to Swiftsure.

jimp also makes a good point on desirability of more power at resale, if that's of concern. FWIW, I passed on a different '89 Revenge WT WD a year ago because (among other issues) it had a relatively new Yamaha 200 (vs. 225) that I wouldn't be able to trade out of easily.

rehenderson posted 02-19-2004 09:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for rehenderson  Send Email to rehenderson     
You guys have made me nervous on the 200 vs 235 decision- not because I doubt the 200 will perform well, but I suspect you are right that the market may "want" a 235 on my boat when I'm ready to do the next thing. From the performance numbers I have seen, it sure looks like the OX-66 will push a DPI very hard on economy when cruising- trolling is another matter.
quattro20vt posted 02-20-2004 04:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for quattro20vt  Send Email to quattro20vt     
rehenderson--
Hope I didn't scare you too much on that 200/225 issue. If your price on the 200 is right, then you could discount appropriately if you have to market the boat in the future. How far out do you think that "next thing" might be? If far enough, just repower either way and go use your Whaler!

In the example I gave, it didn't make sense as it was a 2 yr old Yammy 200 that the seller paid dearly for, and didn't want to lose too much on

As for the OX66 EFI vs. DFI, the Yammy dealer I spoke with said OX66 gave about 2% advantage over the older carb'd Yammy, but the HPDI had about another 35-40% advantage. The two Merc dealers I spoke with said maybe 5% better with Merc EFI over carb, but 40-45% jump with Opti. These were best range cruising consumption rates, not WOT. At WOT, the differences would be much narrower.

rehenderson posted 02-20-2004 10:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for rehenderson  Send Email to rehenderson     
Quattro- go check out the engine performance data on the Yamaha outboard homepage (for various motor/boat combinations). If the information is accurate, it seems to paint a very different picture on efficiency (OX66 vs HPDI) than suggested by your Yamaha dealer (I have no idea personally!)
quattro20vt posted 02-20-2004 11:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for quattro20vt  Send Email to quattro20vt     
rehenderson--
I tried looking thru the Yammy site...a bit challenging as 1) some of the perf reports under OX66 are for HPDI motors! and 2) there are no 225 HPDI motors, though there are occasionally 200 comparisons. On occasion, I saw a boat tested w/ a single in one series and a twin in the other. apples & oranges, unfortunately.

I didn't see many good head to head comparisons there--either the boats weren't the same models or for the same models, they tested different power outboards.

Admittedly, I'm not real familiar w/ Yammy's OX66 system--but if it's at all similar to Merc's EFI 2s system, injecting fuel/oil mix into the intake air stream going thru the crankscase, I don't see how the OX66 could be substantially better than a carb'd 2s.

I think a better tool for evaluation would be this forum's members and their reported fuel consumption on your specific boat, or hull if not enough direct comparisons.

See the threads I started on repowering my Revenge (22' WT WD) for reports from a couple others on fuel consumption (EFI, Opti, Carb, Twin Yammy), including both 22' and 25' hulls (comparing the 22' WD with a 25' is close):
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002233.html
(warning--long thread!)
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002306.html
(my observations recently, gph vs mph)

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