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Author Topic:   Change 30" shaft to 25" Yamaha

peetmin posted 02-18-2004 03:43 PM ET (US)
I found a 1995 Yamaha 225 Saltwater series that is super clean and supposedly has 150 hours of use on it. I can buy this motor for around $5400 at the same time they will take my 1987 Yamaha 225 (good running, aprox. 800hrs.) in trade and give me around $2000 for it. The problem here is the 1995 has a 30” shaft and I believe I need a 25” shaft for my notched transom 22’ Revenge (1987) vintage. I know you can install a “jack plate” of some sort to raise the motor 5”. That sounds like the wrong way to do it. Has anyone replaced a 30” shaft on a Yamaha with a 25”? What are the costs and associated problems? By the way the reason I am considering the up grade is it seems to make some sense to upgrade now while I have a motor with value to trade. Any thoughts or ideas?
Sal DiMercurio posted 02-18-2004 04:38 PM ET (US)
Changing shaft lengths is not a cheap deal.
This place is by far the most reasonable.
Baymfg.com
419 499 4602
Their in Ohio.
Sal
Tom W Clark posted 02-18-2004 05:19 PM ET (US)
Peter,
While you could theoretically convert that motor, why not take advantage of its longer shaft length and install a jackplate which may even provide some performance improvements as well as costing less than converting the motor in question.
This would have the added benefit of putting the powerhead another 5" above the water on a boat that is notorious for having a low transom.
If you already have hydraulic steering, it would be a trivially easy installation.
peetmin posted 02-18-2004 07:24 PM ET (US)
Tom, I was in your neighborhood today and stopped by Jacobson's. Anyway the motor that I am speaking of appears to be in exceptional condition. There is a mechanic who works there named Jack. Jack has always been a great guy that I trust.He suggested that the jack (no pun) plate wouldn't be the best way to set up. He went on to say that the center of gravity would be raised. I don't know if that should be a consideration for me. He finished by saying that when he sees boats with the jack plate come through the shop, it looks like a compromise was made.
After reading many of your posts I have great respect of the knowledge you bring. So, you think this configuration could work to my advantage? Some of my questions would be, What are the costs of the plate? Does the application have the apperance that a compromise was made? What performance advantages would it offer? Where would you purchase the jack plate?
Thank you for your input.
Best regards,
Pete
Sal DiMercurio posted 02-18-2004 08:10 PM ET (US)
Just about every bass boat has a jack plate, I wouldn't worry about using one on a Whaler.
As far as performance, you can really zero in on performance with a jack plate because you can raise or lower the engine at will for different conditions.
Just be sure you don't raise the engine so high that it can't suck water.
Most bass boat lower units have the low water intake which is lower then the stock lower units.
Sal
logjamslam posted 02-18-2004 09:56 PM ET (US)
Pete- For me the issue would not be the jackplate. I agree that it would probably be a good thing for that hull.
Last winter I was shopping for a Yamaha saltwater series in the 200-250 hp range. I was told not to expect the increased fuel efficiency until after the 1997 model year. Also that there was some kind of kit needed on the earlier models to replace a gasket and make sure that water drained out of the water jacket; otherwise saltwater would be retained in the head and cause corrosion problems. I'm sorry I don't remember the name of the kit or the difference in fuel consumption. Unless you are getting a screaming deal it might be better to target a later model. In these days fuel savings add up fast.
For comparison purposes last winter I found a 1999 250hp 30" shaft with 200 hrs on the engine and 0 on a new powerhead for 6000.oo-no prop or controls. I think the 200 or 225 would be more efficient but I have no complaints with the 250.
Tom W Clark posted 02-19-2004 12:21 AM ET (US)
Pete,
I love Jack too. He's been with Jake's for a long time and really knows his stuff. But he is a bit "old school". I suspect his objection is based on appearances. A classic Whaler just does not look as "classic" if it's got a jack plate on it. The whole jack plate, set back bracket phenomena is relatively new and not at all common in the Pacific Northwest. We just don't see boats rigged that way, and we NEVER saw a Whaler rigged like that back when Jacobsen's was selling more Boston Whalers than anybody else in the world.
Last September I drove around back of Jacobsen's while coming out of my lumber yard, Limback Lumber. I saw an old Outrage sitting at the service bay and recognized it as on the the very earliest models. So what do I do? I have to stop and investigate, of course. I look inside this Outrage and see the hull number "003". Yes, it's the third Outrage ever built! complete with a bronze "Built for..." plaque in the floor.
On the transom sits a Yamaha V-Max 200 HPDI engine. The V-Max is the high performance version with a funny cowl on top of the motor. This is way more motor than that boat needs, but oh well. So I ask Terry McCartney who owns it, what's it in for, blah, blah, blah and I also ask about the motor.
He says he just sold it to the guy a little while ago and it probably in for it's 20 hour check and that the only reason it's a V-Max is because that's the only way they could get a 20 shaft length motor for that boat. The original Outrages were designed for 20" motors. I asked why they didn't just add a jack plate. Terry shrugged and said something like "we don't get into that too much..."
It's just not what they do. Like I said, old school.
As to the center of gravity being raised, that's absolutely true. But how much?! A negligible amount to be sure. It really comes down to looks more than anything. There is a very good article describing the concept of jack plates and set back brackets in the Reference Section of continuousWave. There are innumerable threads discussing the pros and cons of them as well as where to buy them, ect.
I will leave it to others to make specific recommendations as I have never installed one. Perhaps it's time...
lhg posted 02-19-2004 02:51 PM ET (US)
BW's new Guardian 22 & 25's are now being made for 30" singles & 25" twins. Just saw a new 22 with a 30" transom, running a 30" Merc-aha 225 4-stroke. This nicely solves many of the complaints about twin powered 22's shifting water over the transom.
This can be accomplished with a quality jack plate as described above ( I like the black Rite-Hites) or if no setback is desired at all, with CMC's 1/2" aluminum static lift plates (no adjustable running height).
peetmin posted 02-19-2004 02:55 PM ET (US)
Thank you Gentlemen for your replies. I'm off to do some research.
Regards to all,
Pete
Bigshot posted 02-19-2004 03:28 PM ET (US)
Jack don't know Jack about Jack plates :)
Do it and mount the plate high so that you can still raise it up some. I am not talking a hydraulic one, just a $200 manual plate. I run one on my boat and would not have it any other way. You will love it in a rough sea so the water does not swamp your engine. I wish my Hydra-sports had one because when i come off plane she can take a little water on the shroud.
Unless she has a removable plate that extends the 25 to a 30" you can't make it a 25". I do not think anyone uses the extension plates anymore except for Mercury. Do the plate....too good a deal to pass up. When you repower again, I bet you will keep the plate and install a 25".
onlyawhaler posted 02-19-2004 05:23 PM ET (US)
Ihg and Bigshot,
I accidently posted this message as a new post rather than a reply which I should have done.
If one does't want a backset situation, just verticle lift of 5 inches (30 inch shaft on a 25 inch transom) who makes these? Anyone paticular company or are they custom done?
Thanks
Sterling
lhg posted 02-19-2004 08:52 PM ET (US)
See CMC's products.
peetmin posted 03-31-2004 12:59 AM ET (US)
So I thought I would finish off the thread. I decided on the low hour Yamaha 225 with the 30" shaft. I used the CMC 5" vertical lift plate. I brought the boat home today and it looks great. I am in the process of reconnecting all of the controls and replacing the throttle and shift cables. I'll post photos soon.
Thanks to all that helped with the decision making. Good advice Tom on raising the power head further above the water... I'm sure you will see it sooner or later.
Regards, Pete

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Author	Topic: Change 30" shaft to 25" Yamaha
peetmin	posted 02-18-2004 03:43 PM ET (US) I found a 1995 Yamaha 225 Saltwater series that is super clean and supposedly has 150 hours of use on it. I can buy this motor for around $5400 at the same time they will take my 1987 Yamaha 225 (good running, aprox. 800hrs.) in trade and give me around $2000 for it. The problem here is the 1995 has a 30” shaft and I believe I need a 25” shaft for my notched transom 22’ Revenge (1987) vintage. I know you can install a “jack plate” of some sort to raise the motor 5”. That sounds like the wrong way to do it. Has anyone replaced a 30” shaft on a Yamaha with a 25”? What are the costs and associated problems? By the way the reason I am considering the up grade is it seems to make some sense to upgrade now while I have a motor with value to trade. Any thoughts or ideas?
Sal DiMercurio	posted 02-18-2004 04:38 PM ET (US) Changing shaft lengths is not a cheap deal. This place is by far the most reasonable. Baymfg.com 419 499 4602 Their in Ohio. Sal
Tom W Clark	posted 02-18-2004 05:19 PM ET (US) Peter, While you could theoretically convert that motor, why not take advantage of its longer shaft length and install a jackplate which may even provide some performance improvements as well as costing less than converting the motor in question. This would have the added benefit of putting the powerhead another 5" above the water on a boat that is notorious for having a low transom. If you already have hydraulic steering, it would be a trivially easy installation.
peetmin	posted 02-18-2004 07:24 PM ET (US) Tom, I was in your neighborhood today and stopped by Jacobson's. Anyway the motor that I am speaking of appears to be in exceptional condition. There is a mechanic who works there named Jack. Jack has always been a great guy that I trust.He suggested that the jack (no pun) plate wouldn't be the best way to set up. He went on to say that the center of gravity would be raised. I don't know if that should be a consideration for me. He finished by saying that when he sees boats with the jack plate come through the shop, it looks like a compromise was made. After reading many of your posts I have great respect of the knowledge you bring. So, you think this configuration could work to my advantage? Some of my questions would be, What are the costs of the plate? Does the application have the apperance that a compromise was made? What performance advantages would it offer? Where would you purchase the jack plate? Thank you for your input. Best regards, Pete
Sal DiMercurio	posted 02-18-2004 08:10 PM ET (US) Just about every bass boat has a jack plate, I wouldn't worry about using one on a Whaler. As far as performance, you can really zero in on performance with a jack plate because you can raise or lower the engine at will for different conditions. Just be sure you don't raise the engine so high that it can't suck water. Most bass boat lower units have the low water intake which is lower then the stock lower units. Sal
logjamslam	posted 02-18-2004 09:56 PM ET (US) Pete- For me the issue would not be the jackplate. I agree that it would probably be a good thing for that hull. Last winter I was shopping for a Yamaha saltwater series in the 200-250 hp range. I was told not to expect the increased fuel efficiency until after the 1997 model year. Also that there was some kind of kit needed on the earlier models to replace a gasket and make sure that water drained out of the water jacket; otherwise saltwater would be retained in the head and cause corrosion problems. I'm sorry I don't remember the name of the kit or the difference in fuel consumption. Unless you are getting a screaming deal it might be better to target a later model. In these days fuel savings add up fast. For comparison purposes last winter I found a 1999 250hp 30" shaft with 200 hrs on the engine and 0 on a new powerhead for 6000.oo-no prop or controls. I think the 200 or 225 would be more efficient but I have no complaints with the 250.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-19-2004 12:21 AM ET (US) Pete, I love Jack too. He's been with Jake's for a long time and really knows his stuff. But he is a bit "old school". I suspect his objection is based on appearances. A classic Whaler just does not look as "classic" if it's got a jack plate on it. The whole jack plate, set back bracket phenomena is relatively new and not at all common in the Pacific Northwest. We just don't see boats rigged that way, and we NEVER saw a Whaler rigged like that back when Jacobsen's was selling more Boston Whalers than anybody else in the world. Last September I drove around back of Jacobsen's while coming out of my lumber yard, Limback Lumber. I saw an old Outrage sitting at the service bay and recognized it as on the the very earliest models. So what do I do? I have to stop and investigate, of course. I look inside this Outrage and see the hull number "003". Yes, it's the third Outrage ever built! complete with a bronze "Built for..." plaque in the floor. On the transom sits a Yamaha V-Max 200 HPDI engine. The V-Max is the high performance version with a funny cowl on top of the motor. This is way more motor than that boat needs, but oh well. So I ask Terry McCartney who owns it, what's it in for, blah, blah, blah and I also ask about the motor. He says he just sold it to the guy a little while ago and it probably in for it's 20 hour check and that the only reason it's a V-Max is because that's the only way they could get a 20 shaft length motor for that boat. The original Outrages were designed for 20" motors. I asked why they didn't just add a jack plate. Terry shrugged and said something like "we don't get into that too much..." It's just not what they do. Like I said, old school. As to the center of gravity being raised, that's absolutely true. But how much?! A negligible amount to be sure. It really comes down to looks more than anything. There is a very good article describing the concept of jack plates and set back brackets in the Reference Section of continuousWave. There are innumerable threads discussing the pros and cons of them as well as where to buy them, ect. I will leave it to others to make specific recommendations as I have never installed one. Perhaps it's time...
lhg	posted 02-19-2004 02:51 PM ET (US) BW's new Guardian 22 & 25's are now being made for 30" singles & 25" twins. Just saw a new 22 with a 30" transom, running a 30" Merc-aha 225 4-stroke. This nicely solves many of the complaints about twin powered 22's shifting water over the transom. This can be accomplished with a quality jack plate as described above ( I like the black Rite-Hites) or if no setback is desired at all, with CMC's 1/2" aluminum static lift plates (no adjustable running height).
peetmin	posted 02-19-2004 02:55 PM ET (US) Thank you Gentlemen for your replies. I'm off to do some research. Regards to all, Pete
Bigshot	posted 02-19-2004 03:28 PM ET (US) Jack don't know Jack about Jack plates :) Do it and mount the plate high so that you can still raise it up some. I am not talking a hydraulic one, just a $200 manual plate. I run one on my boat and would not have it any other way. You will love it in a rough sea so the water does not swamp your engine. I wish my Hydra-sports had one because when i come off plane she can take a little water on the shroud. Unless she has a removable plate that extends the 25 to a 30" you can't make it a 25". I do not think anyone uses the extension plates anymore except for Mercury. Do the plate....too good a deal to pass up. When you repower again, I bet you will keep the plate and install a 25".
onlyawhaler	posted 02-19-2004 05:23 PM ET (US) Ihg and Bigshot, I accidently posted this message as a new post rather than a reply which I should have done. If one does't want a backset situation, just verticle lift of 5 inches (30 inch shaft on a 25 inch transom) who makes these? Anyone paticular company or are they custom done? Thanks Sterling
lhg	posted 02-19-2004 08:52 PM ET (US) See CMC's products.
peetmin	posted 03-31-2004 12:59 AM ET (US) So I thought I would finish off the thread. I decided on the low hour Yamaha 225 with the 30" shaft. I used the CMC 5" vertical lift plate. I brought the boat home today and it looks great. I am in the process of reconnecting all of the controls and replacing the throttle and shift cables. I'll post photos soon. Thanks to all that helped with the decision making. Good advice Tom on raising the power head further above the water... I'm sure you will see it sooner or later. Regards, Pete