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Author Topic:   5 Blade Prop

NausetBoy posted 03-01-2004 08:02 PM ET (US)
I want to put a 5 blade prop on my Yammy F100 on mah Nauset. Anyone knows if High Five Props by Merc will fit my motor. Also what pitch and diamater should I get? Thanks, Im new to props.
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-01-2004 08:35 PM ET (US)
First of all, you most certainly do "NOT" need either a 4 blade or a 5 blade.
The only thing you will gain is getting out of the hole faster & I really doubt your have a problem doing that right now.
You will loose from 3 to 5 mph on the top end.
Why do you feel you need one ?
Sal
LHG posted 03-01-2004 08:44 PM ET (US)
All Mercury props will fit Yamaha, or any other brand for that matter. They offer a separate hub kit for your brand at no extra cost. One of these will cost you $400 however. Since your engine is the same as the Mercury 90, you might even check with Whaler for recommended props. High Fives are not made in less than 20" pitch, so you could be pushing the limit there in application. A four bladed Trophy offers lower 17 and 19" pitches.
See Mercurymarine.com for description of props and applications. Use their prop selector and plug in the Mercury 90 4-stroke. My guess is that a High Five prop will only cost you about 1 mph top end, and it should definitely help 4-stroke acceleration if you can turn up 20" pitch. Both Andy Gere and Clark Roberts here have experience with this prop and could give you more meaningful information.
NausetBoy posted 03-01-2004 09:08 PM ET (US)
I probably wont, i jsut thought it would be cool. What would yall suggest for good top end speed?
andygere posted 03-02-2004 01:26 AM ET (US)
I have a High Five on my Outrage 22 Cuddy/Mercury 200, and it really does get the boat out of the hole fast, even with a big load. My top speed in perfect conditions is 43 mph, and that's with bottom paint and a small T-top. I can't imagine I'm losing all that much top speed, but then again, I rarely boat in conditions where that matters anyway. Mine is a 19 pitch, but it's an older model. It really holds in well in hard turns and sloppy offshore conditions. I think a multiblade prop might help 4 stroke motors that are a bit flat out of the hole, but that's just speculation on my part. Prices are closer to $480 on the net.
LHG posted 03-02-2004 01:41 PM ET (US)
Andy I know a place in FL where you can mail order, without sales tax, brand newMercury performance props all day for $399., plus shipping Only the hot new Revolution 4 is $449.
For the smaller gearcase, the lowest pitch High Five is 20".
For the big gearcases, it is 19".
Like most Mercury performance props, High Fives have to be run elevated 1 1/2" for proper pitch application. When run fully submerged, the effective pitch increases by 2". This is why some of the "propheads" here often report "negative" pitch calculations. Running height alters "effective" pitch considerably, so does number of blades. Merc Trophy 4 bladed bass/flats props need 2 1/4" elevation.
Bigshot posted 03-02-2004 03:31 PM ET (US)
if you are gonna elevate that high, get a low water pickup and forget about running in big trailing seas...just my $.02
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-02-2004 07:17 PM ET (US)
Andy, what are your maximum rpms ?
I've found that a 19p on a 200 hp on a 22 Revenge or Outrage cuddy, is just to much pitch.
Are you sure that prop isn't a 17p?
Sal
cape_rover posted 03-03-2004 12:41 PM ET (US)
sounds like a 5 blade prop would be ideal for people fishing skinny water since you can mount the engine higher and you get the best hole shot. Is that correct?
LHG posted 03-03-2004 12:52 PM ET (US)
Mercury's 4 bladed Trophy Plus is specifically designed for this purpose, and they are popular on the flats boats. That would be your first choice for this type of application.
Bigshot posted 03-03-2004 01:36 PM ET (US)
Only people I know with high 5's are addicted water skiers. A 3 or 4 blade is all ANYONE ever needs. I a puzzled they can balance a 5 bladed prop personally.
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-03-2004 02:40 PM ET (US)
IHG is correct, as to the only real advantage of a 4 or 5 blade prop is hole shot in very shallow water.
I agree, a 3 blade is all that is needed, unless your into sking & on very skinny water.
Sal
andygere posted 03-03-2004 03:06 PM ET (US)
Sal, it's a 19 pitch for sure, and as Larry says, the lowest pitch available in that size range. My RPMs are 5400 at WOT in flat conditions (Delta). It's within the manufacturer's WOT RPM range(5000-5600), so I don't think I'm under propped.
I've often wondered if pitch comparisons between 3, 4 and 5 bladed props are valid. Wetted surface, therefore friction on the blades, is substantially different for each type. Pitch describes the distance traveled with no slipping, but clearly there are differences in how much slipping ocurrs between props with different numbers of blades, different blade designs, etc. Any ideas?
When I spoke with the original owner of this boat, he told me the High Five was spec'ed by the rigger for offshore holding power and good low end accelleration. Since it's an '89, perhaps the 4-blade Trophy + models weren't out yet. In any event, it performs well in the conditions I use the boat most frequently, so I can't complain.
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-03-2004 05:37 PM ET (US)
Andy, I figured something wasen't right.
Just ran your numbers & it shows 22% slip.
Thats far to much slip for that prop.
Isn't your gear ratio 1.76.1 ?
I figure that prop with 10% slip to turn like 4800 which still is to low.
How high up is your engine mounted [ which holes ] ?
Sal
LHG posted 03-03-2004 05:57 PM ET (US)
The Merc 200's use a 1.87 gear ratio.
At the time Andy's boat was set up in 1989, the High Five was being recommended for offshore single engines, because of it's tremendous holding power. It was a brand new design at the time, and preceded most of the current prop designs except the Laser II. It was never made in counter rotating versions. The current best prop for Andy would either be a Mirage Plus or Revolution 4, and he would pick up about 2 mph top end.
Don't write off 5 bladed props however. Mercury has a brand new high performance design on the market, called a "Maximus". Supposedly, it's for top end speed, and currently only available in 30"-36" pitch! They say lower pitch versions are on the way. I have been wondering if it will be for the Verados.
I also think it is wrong to assume 4-bladed props are slower top end. They say the Bravo I (available only 22" pitch and higher) and Revolution 4 (17"-23") 4-bladed props will run with the fastest 3 blades. A US Customs 39 Midnight Express I recently saw had 4 Merc 225 EFI's running the Bravo I props in 24" pitch.
andygere posted 03-03-2004 06:05 PM ET (US)
Sal,
My motor is mounted in the third (middle) set of holes.
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-03-2004 09:56 PM ET (US)
Andy, something still dosen't seem right here.
I ran it through with 1.86.1 gear ratio & it comes up zero slip.
I just don't see that 200 hp twisting 5400 rpms with a 19p at zero slip.
Although, being up on the 3rd set of holes could give you the rpms, but it's tight.
Hey, as long as it's in the range & your happy, who the hell am I to question it.
Sal
andygere posted 03-04-2004 11:15 AM ET (US)
Sal,
Is it possible that while it's labled a 19 pitch prop, it is actually something less than that? I suppose the accuracy of my tach could be off as well. As far as I can tell, the prop was not repaired or reworked before I got it. The next time I'm on the water in clean conditions I'll do another performance run to verify. By the way, to get to 5400 rpm, I have her really trimmed out.
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-04-2004 08:42 PM ET (US)
I just can't help feeling that's a 17p.
Either it's a 17p or that is one very strong running engine.
Sal
LHG posted 03-04-2004 09:13 PM ET (US)
Maybe I can help out here using the Mercury prop charts.

First of all, I gave wrong information in that a High Five prop for the V-6 gearcase is not available in 17" pitch. This is the lowest, and it goes up in 2" increments.
I think the charts tend to indicate that Sal is correct, Andy, considering you have a speed robbing tee top. You may have a slipping hub. For the 200, here are the numbers:
17" pitch, load range 2900-5000, speed range 38-46 mph.
19" pitch, load range 2600-4500, speed range 44-51 mph
21" pitch, load range 2200-4000, speed range 49-56 mph
From the looks of it, a 17" pitch would be more right, and should be running pretty close to 46 mph, except for the Tee Top. Without the tee top and aux engine weight, it's possible a 22 could use a 19" prop under light load, and run in the high 40's
If the prop is solid and not slipping at the hub, the RPM you are indicating should give you more like 49 MPH. Something doesn't add up.
Clark roberts has indicated a 19" Laser II (an admittedly faster prop) on his 200 EFI is giving him 55 mph on the 21 Outrage at 5800. These props really "turn on" at 50 mph.
Sal, how are we going to get you to try a few Merc performance props on your rig? You'll really like them, and worth the $399 price tag!
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-04-2004 11:05 PM ET (US)
Larry, I agree that Merc is the king of props for the big 3 engine makers.
Hell, omc/brp props belong on electric fans in the bedroom.
The reason I usually [ not always ] push Stilettos is, the average guy can afford them, & they do perform pretty good in many cases.
I just try & suggest the best bang for the buck.
Don't get me wrong, you will rareley [ if ever ] see me knock Mercs props, because they are top of the line, unless you go into Mazcos & Spinnelis [ Spinneli is no longer in business].
You know many Whaler guys are just working stiffs, & pretty hard to justify spending 3-$600 on a performance prop when they can get darn near the same performance for $249.00
Thats the only reason I push em.
I'm almost certain he has a 17p on that boat, or his engine is putting out about 250 hp.
Sal
andygere posted 03-05-2004 01:45 PM ET (US)
This has turned into quite a mystery, but I may be able to shed some light on it. At one time I checked the part number on the prop vs. the Mercury website, and I'm fairly certain it matched (or nearly so) the 19 pitch part number. Problem here is my prop is old, and the design has changed a bit, with the new models having removable vent plugs. I Just called the guy that just repaired the prop and they meausred the pitch at 19 in. He did tell me that the prop calculators never seem to predict speeds well for multi blade props. Also, the hub is sound, no slipping.
Here's the next thing: I am using GPS to determine speed, but that gives speed over ground, and does not account for current. The numbers I quoted were from my last trip to the Delta, which can have strong tidal currents in the channels that could alter the true boat speed. I did not do an up-and-back run, and have no idea what the current was doing at the time. If I was running against the current, this could be part of the problem.
Finally, my rig has some speed killers. My T-top is small, but I have a canvas pilot-house type enclosure around it, which really catches a lot of wind. I also have a radar dome on top. In addition, I fabricated a canvas "kid keeper" across the splashwell that fastens to a custom wrap around rail that sits about 8-10 inches above the gunwales. It does a great job of keeping my young daughter in the boat and away from the motors, but it also catches wind like a sail. The boat is bottom painted, although that only seemed to take 1 or 2 mph off at WOT. Finally, the boat was moderately loaded that day, with two guys, 3/4 tank of gas, 15 hp kicker, 2 batteries, coolers, and fly fishing gear, and it is a cuddy model. Larry always says that these V6 Mercs tend to put out more than the nameplate horsepower, so combined with the above, I think they mystery may be solved.

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Author	Topic: 5 Blade Prop
NausetBoy	posted 03-01-2004 08:02 PM ET (US) I want to put a 5 blade prop on my Yammy F100 on mah Nauset. Anyone knows if High Five Props by Merc will fit my motor. Also what pitch and diamater should I get? Thanks, Im new to props.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-01-2004 08:35 PM ET (US) First of all, you most certainly do "NOT" need either a 4 blade or a 5 blade. The only thing you will gain is getting out of the hole faster & I really doubt your have a problem doing that right now. You will loose from 3 to 5 mph on the top end. Why do you feel you need one ? Sal
LHG	posted 03-01-2004 08:44 PM ET (US) All Mercury props will fit Yamaha, or any other brand for that matter. They offer a separate hub kit for your brand at no extra cost. One of these will cost you $400 however. Since your engine is the same as the Mercury 90, you might even check with Whaler for recommended props. High Fives are not made in less than 20" pitch, so you could be pushing the limit there in application. A four bladed Trophy offers lower 17 and 19" pitches. See Mercurymarine.com for description of props and applications. Use their prop selector and plug in the Mercury 90 4-stroke. My guess is that a High Five prop will only cost you about 1 mph top end, and it should definitely help 4-stroke acceleration if you can turn up 20" pitch. Both Andy Gere and Clark Roberts here have experience with this prop and could give you more meaningful information.
NausetBoy	posted 03-01-2004 09:08 PM ET (US) I probably wont, i jsut thought it would be cool. What would yall suggest for good top end speed?
andygere	posted 03-02-2004 01:26 AM ET (US) I have a High Five on my Outrage 22 Cuddy/Mercury 200, and it really does get the boat out of the hole fast, even with a big load. My top speed in perfect conditions is 43 mph, and that's with bottom paint and a small T-top. I can't imagine I'm losing all that much top speed, but then again, I rarely boat in conditions where that matters anyway. Mine is a 19 pitch, but it's an older model. It really holds in well in hard turns and sloppy offshore conditions. I think a multiblade prop might help 4 stroke motors that are a bit flat out of the hole, but that's just speculation on my part. Prices are closer to $480 on the net.
LHG	posted 03-02-2004 01:41 PM ET (US) Andy I know a place in FL where you can mail order, without sales tax, brand newMercury performance props all day for $399., plus shipping Only the hot new Revolution 4 is $449. For the smaller gearcase, the lowest pitch High Five is 20". For the big gearcases, it is 19". Like most Mercury performance props, High Fives have to be run elevated 1 1/2" for proper pitch application. When run fully submerged, the effective pitch increases by 2". This is why some of the "propheads" here often report "negative" pitch calculations. Running height alters "effective" pitch considerably, so does number of blades. Merc Trophy 4 bladed bass/flats props need 2 1/4" elevation.
Bigshot	posted 03-02-2004 03:31 PM ET (US) if you are gonna elevate that high, get a low water pickup and forget about running in big trailing seas...just my $.02
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-02-2004 07:17 PM ET (US) Andy, what are your maximum rpms ? I've found that a 19p on a 200 hp on a 22 Revenge or Outrage cuddy, is just to much pitch. Are you sure that prop isn't a 17p? Sal
cape_rover	posted 03-03-2004 12:41 PM ET (US) sounds like a 5 blade prop would be ideal for people fishing skinny water since you can mount the engine higher and you get the best hole shot. Is that correct?
LHG	posted 03-03-2004 12:52 PM ET (US) Mercury's 4 bladed Trophy Plus is specifically designed for this purpose, and they are popular on the flats boats. That would be your first choice for this type of application.
Bigshot	posted 03-03-2004 01:36 PM ET (US) Only people I know with high 5's are addicted water skiers. A 3 or 4 blade is all ANYONE ever needs. I a puzzled they can balance a 5 bladed prop personally.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-03-2004 02:40 PM ET (US) IHG is correct, as to the only real advantage of a 4 or 5 blade prop is hole shot in very shallow water. I agree, a 3 blade is all that is needed, unless your into sking & on very skinny water. Sal
andygere	posted 03-03-2004 03:06 PM ET (US) Sal, it's a 19 pitch for sure, and as Larry says, the lowest pitch available in that size range. My RPMs are 5400 at WOT in flat conditions (Delta). It's within the manufacturer's WOT RPM range(5000-5600), so I don't think I'm under propped. I've often wondered if pitch comparisons between 3, 4 and 5 bladed props are valid. Wetted surface, therefore friction on the blades, is substantially different for each type. Pitch describes the distance traveled with no slipping, but clearly there are differences in how much slipping ocurrs between props with different numbers of blades, different blade designs, etc. Any ideas? When I spoke with the original owner of this boat, he told me the High Five was spec'ed by the rigger for offshore holding power and good low end accelleration. Since it's an '89, perhaps the 4-blade Trophy + models weren't out yet. In any event, it performs well in the conditions I use the boat most frequently, so I can't complain.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-03-2004 05:37 PM ET (US) Andy, I figured something wasen't right. Just ran your numbers & it shows 22% slip. Thats far to much slip for that prop. Isn't your gear ratio 1.76.1 ? I figure that prop with 10% slip to turn like 4800 which still is to low. How high up is your engine mounted [ which holes ] ? Sal
LHG	posted 03-03-2004 05:57 PM ET (US) The Merc 200's use a 1.87 gear ratio. At the time Andy's boat was set up in 1989, the High Five was being recommended for offshore single engines, because of it's tremendous holding power. It was a brand new design at the time, and preceded most of the current prop designs except the Laser II. It was never made in counter rotating versions. The current best prop for Andy would either be a Mirage Plus or Revolution 4, and he would pick up about 2 mph top end. Don't write off 5 bladed props however. Mercury has a brand new high performance design on the market, called a "Maximus". Supposedly, it's for top end speed, and currently only available in 30"-36" pitch! They say lower pitch versions are on the way. I have been wondering if it will be for the Verados. I also think it is wrong to assume 4-bladed props are slower top end. They say the Bravo I (available only 22" pitch and higher) and Revolution 4 (17"-23") 4-bladed props will run with the fastest 3 blades. A US Customs 39 Midnight Express I recently saw had 4 Merc 225 EFI's running the Bravo I props in 24" pitch.
andygere	posted 03-03-2004 06:05 PM ET (US) Sal, My motor is mounted in the third (middle) set of holes.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-03-2004 09:56 PM ET (US) Andy, something still dosen't seem right here. I ran it through with 1.86.1 gear ratio & it comes up zero slip. I just don't see that 200 hp twisting 5400 rpms with a 19p at zero slip. Although, being up on the 3rd set of holes could give you the rpms, but it's tight. Hey, as long as it's in the range & your happy, who the hell am I to question it. Sal
andygere	posted 03-04-2004 11:15 AM ET (US) Sal, Is it possible that while it's labled a 19 pitch prop, it is actually something less than that? I suppose the accuracy of my tach could be off as well. As far as I can tell, the prop was not repaired or reworked before I got it. The next time I'm on the water in clean conditions I'll do another performance run to verify. By the way, to get to 5400 rpm, I have her really trimmed out.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-04-2004 08:42 PM ET (US) I just can't help feeling that's a 17p. Either it's a 17p or that is one very strong running engine. Sal
LHG	posted 03-04-2004 09:13 PM ET (US) Maybe I can help out here using the Mercury prop charts. First of all, I gave wrong information in that a High Five prop for the V-6 gearcase is not available in 17" pitch. This is the lowest, and it goes up in 2" increments. I think the charts tend to indicate that Sal is correct, Andy, considering you have a speed robbing tee top. You may have a slipping hub. For the 200, here are the numbers: 17" pitch, load range 2900-5000, speed range 38-46 mph. 19" pitch, load range 2600-4500, speed range 44-51 mph 21" pitch, load range 2200-4000, speed range 49-56 mph From the looks of it, a 17" pitch would be more right, and should be running pretty close to 46 mph, except for the Tee Top. Without the tee top and aux engine weight, it's possible a 22 could use a 19" prop under light load, and run in the high 40's If the prop is solid and not slipping at the hub, the RPM you are indicating should give you more like 49 MPH. Something doesn't add up. Clark roberts has indicated a 19" Laser II (an admittedly faster prop) on his 200 EFI is giving him 55 mph on the 21 Outrage at 5800. These props really "turn on" at 50 mph. Sal, how are we going to get you to try a few Merc performance props on your rig? You'll really like them, and worth the $399 price tag!
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-04-2004 11:05 PM ET (US) Larry, I agree that Merc is the king of props for the big 3 engine makers. Hell, omc/brp props belong on electric fans in the bedroom. The reason I usually [ not always ] push Stilettos is, the average guy can afford them, & they do perform pretty good in many cases. I just try & suggest the best bang for the buck. Don't get me wrong, you will rareley [ if ever ] see me knock Mercs props, because they are top of the line, unless you go into Mazcos & Spinnelis [ Spinneli is no longer in business]. You know many Whaler guys are just working stiffs, & pretty hard to justify spending 3-$600 on a performance prop when they can get darn near the same performance for $249.00 Thats the only reason I push em. I'm almost certain he has a 17p on that boat, or his engine is putting out about 250 hp. Sal
andygere	posted 03-05-2004 01:45 PM ET (US) This has turned into quite a mystery, but I may be able to shed some light on it. At one time I checked the part number on the prop vs. the Mercury website, and I'm fairly certain it matched (or nearly so) the 19 pitch part number. Problem here is my prop is old, and the design has changed a bit, with the new models having removable vent plugs. I Just called the guy that just repaired the prop and they meausred the pitch at 19 in. He did tell me that the prop calculators never seem to predict speeds well for multi blade props. Also, the hub is sound, no slipping. Here's the next thing: I am using GPS to determine speed, but that gives speed over ground, and does not account for current. The numbers I quoted were from my last trip to the Delta, which can have strong tidal currents in the channels that could alter the true boat speed. I did not do an up-and-back run, and have no idea what the current was doing at the time. If I was running against the current, this could be part of the problem. Finally, my rig has some speed killers. My T-top is small, but I have a canvas pilot-house type enclosure around it, which really catches a lot of wind. I also have a radar dome on top. In addition, I fabricated a canvas "kid keeper" across the splashwell that fastens to a custom wrap around rail that sits about 8-10 inches above the gunwales. It does a great job of keeping my young daughter in the boat and away from the motors, but it also catches wind like a sail. The boat is bottom painted, although that only seemed to take 1 or 2 mph off at WOT. Finally, the boat was moderately loaded that day, with two guys, 3/4 tank of gas, 15 hp kicker, 2 batteries, coolers, and fly fishing gear, and it is a cuddy model. Larry always says that these V6 Mercs tend to put out more than the nameplate horsepower, so combined with the above, I think they mystery may be solved.