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Author Topic:   Boat Position On Trailer
no glitter posted 03-15-2004 05:22 PM ET (US)   Profile for no glitter   Send Email to no glitter  
I am trying to fit my OUTRAGE 18 in my garage. I need to lose about 1-2-feet in length to make it work. How far can I push the boat forward without causing handling problems or other problems? Is this dependent on trailer length?
prj posted 03-15-2004 05:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for prj  Send Email to prj     
"1-2-feet" is an awfully huge range and a dramatic revision. Guidelines suggest a tongue weight of <5-10% of the rig's weight. With an 18-foot boat you're looking at a 150-300-lb tongue weight.

Keys:
-Transom should be supported on bunks.
-Tongue weight as above.
-Axle(s) can be moved to adjust the weight.

Have at it.

Legobusier posted 03-15-2004 07:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Legobusier  Send Email to Legobusier     
As prj noted, it is a dramatic amount, but assuming you move the axle/wheels forward to keep the center of gravity about where it is now, and the tounge weight as noted, it should be fine.
Jerry Townsend posted 03-15-2004 07:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
No glitter - another option for you: consider a hinged or two piece tongue on the trailer. ---- Jerry/Idaho
bkovak posted 03-15-2004 08:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for bkovak  Send Email to bkovak     
Sacrifice the garage door not the whaler. Cut a hole in your door and install a "doggie door" to allow the tongue to hang out (your wife will love ya)... just kidding! It's tough to fit an 18 in a standard garage. That's what I like about the montauk - it fits. Brian
jimh posted 03-15-2004 08:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
You need to rig the boat to fit on the trailer so that the transom is right over the stern-most keel roller which is located at the last cross member of the trailer. Then move the axle carriage to adjust the tongue weight.

Read: Trailer Reference Article

If you have your boat hanging three feet off the back of the trailer, something is wrong.

lonestarpa posted 03-16-2004 06:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for lonestarpa  Send Email to lonestarpa     
I had the same problem on one of my rigs. I removed the hitch and cut the tounge of the trailer. Worked. It did not seem to change the handling or launching of the trailer one bit. joe
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-16-2004 10:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
It might not have changed the handling of your trailer, but your truck gets wetter. I have a four foot tongue on my trailer and I love. Truck tires don't even get wet on most ramps. I did have to have it modified to be removeable to get in my garage. When it was modified to be removeable it was also modified to be extensible another 18".

And if the boat is right behind the truck, you can't get the tailgate open. Removeable tongues rock.

I like the doggie door idea. Plan A was to cut a hole in the garage wall but I decied it would stick out too far past the wall. A doogie door would have been a nice way to partially seal it up.


Chuck

newportguy posted 03-16-2004 11:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for newportguy  Send Email to newportguy     
Another option to consider is having a swing tongue added the trailer. That way once in side the garage, you can swing the tongue in and still close the door.

Larry

no glitter posted 03-16-2004 12:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for no glitter  Send Email to no glitter     
Maybe that is part of my problem. my transom does hang off about 18" of the end of my bunk. I had wondered about that but just accepted it. Right now my axle is close to center between the console and the stern of the boat. It "looks" like it is positioned ok. Maybe I could split the difference with moving the boat forward and lengthening the bunks.

I have also considered the idea of cutting the tounge off and being able to re-attach with some type of flange with through bolts. Any more thoughts would be appreciated

Plotman posted 03-16-2004 11:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Plotman  Send Email to Plotman     
Don't worry about where the axle is - you can adjust that later. First step is to get boat positioned properly on the trailer. As Jim said, transom just past last roller, or on a bunk trailer (which isn't really reccomended for this boat because of how it is built) bunks all the way to the transom.

Next, move the axle forward or back so that you have the proper tounge weight - on an outrage 18, that is 1250lbs for the boat, 450 for motor, 450 for gas, ~500 lbs for other stuff plus 800 for the trailer or ~3500 lbs loaded -- so ~200-300 lbs tounge weight. Too much, move axle forward, too light, move back. Don't worry about how it looks. Get the weight right.

At this point, you can worry about fitting it in your garage. Sounds like you need a removable tongue.

David

Chuck Tribolet posted 03-17-2004 03:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
That 18" overhang is bad news. Check the hull for damage
around the aft end of the bunks. The transom (with outboard)
is the heaviest part of the boat, but the transom is really
strong pushing straight down on the bunks. But the hull is
relatively weak (compared to the transom), and all that weight
was being transferred through the hull in the small area around
the bunks.

It should be easy to move the boat forward. First move the
winch stand 18" forward, then drag the boat forward, then
fine tune the winch stand positioning.

Sounds like somebody had a trailer for a 16' 7" and just
threw the Outrage on it. Mmmm, I'd check the weight capacity
of the trailer -- I know my Montauk trailer wouldn't handle
your Outrage.


Chuck

Jerry Townsend posted 03-17-2004 04:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
No Glitter - as others have said - that 18 inch overhang is a significant problem - correct that one first - as Chuck Tribolet has mentioned. Hopefully, the overhang has not caused damage to your boat.

Jimh referred you to the forum's trailering threads - there is a wealth of information in that forum.

After you move the boat forward and re-mount the winch stand, take some weight measurements and move the axle accordingly. The weight calculation thread in the above mentioned trailering forum will be of use to you. --- Jerry/Idaho

jimh posted 03-17-2004 09:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
When a dealer rigs a trailer for a particular boat, he just leaves the axle where it was when the manufacturer built the trailer. The boat ends up on the trailer where it happens to land. This is backwards!

You have to put the boat on the trailer, fit it properly, then move the axle forward or backwards to adjust the balance of the boat and the tongue weight. The dealer does not do this because he does not care about how the boat and trailer fit once you drive it off the lot. He does not want to spend 4 or 5 hours of labor fiddling with the trailer and axles.

The better trailer designs all have the axle assembly contained in a separate carriage that slides along the trailer frame, making it simple to adjust the position of the axles relative to the boat. If your trailer does not have a sub-assembly like that, it is probably why the dealer liked it---more profit for him!

Movement of the boat one or two feet forward on the trailer will likely have quite an effect on the tongue weight, so an adjustment of the axle position is called for.

jimh posted 03-17-2004 09:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Administrative post]
Jerry Townsend posted 03-17-2004 10:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
Jimh - I suspect that the manufacturer puts a trailer together as they do because they don't know what boat (weight and length) is going on it.

no glitter - when you move the axle - make sure that it is square with the trailer frame - by making sure the distance from a given point on the hitch to a given point on each side of the axle is the same. The points on the axle can be the center bolt on the spring, or a point on each front spring mount, or ... --- Jerry/Idaho

Sal DiMercurio posted 03-17-2004 10:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Far to many people think the boat should be supported by the bunks on the trailer, this is wrong.
The majority of the weight of the boat belongs on the center rollers, & the bunks are there to ballance the boat to keep it from turning over on a turn, not to support much of the weight of the boat at all.
Sal
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-19-2004 01:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
No glitter hasn't said anything about having rollers.

What if you don't have rollers? Then the bunks HAVE to
support all the weight. And whaler says all-bunk trailers,
done right, are OK, and, and quite a few folks here (me
included) have all bunk trailers without any problems.


Chuck

Sal DiMercurio posted 03-20-2004 12:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Chuck, being the Montauk isn't all that heavy, an all bunk trailer will work fine, as long as the bunks extend out to sit under the transom, to support the weight of the engine, or you will end up with a hook in the bottom..
Anything over 17' with a big engine, needs keel rollers to hold the main weight of the boat, & bunks to just keep it ballanced.
Sal
matawan posted 03-20-2004 12:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for matawan  Send Email to matawan     
Isn't the idea to spread the load over a larger surface area. I agree bow to transom along the keel is best but what about bunks the length of the trailer along the keel,this would seem to actually spread the load better than rollers. I'm not talking about loading or whats best for the boat in this regard
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-21-2004 09:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
My 1998 BW Center Console owner's manual (covers
Montauk, Outrage, and some others) sez:

"Float-on trailers are of the all bunk style.
These are suitable for use as long as the
bunks conform to the shape of the hull, give
support near the center keel, and provide
good fore and aft support to spread the total
weight."


Chuck

no glitter posted 03-23-2004 10:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for no glitter  Send Email to no glitter     
I called a trailer manufacturer and they told me that most trailers should be 18" - 2' minimum longer than the boat. I measured mine and it is 18' so the previous comment about the montauk trailer is probably correct.
i do have center rollers and 2x6 bunks laying almost flat.
i was going to change that to a 4x6, perpendicular to support the stern that is overhanging the rear of the trailer. i do not think that i can move the boat forward, or least not much due to the length of the trailer.

If this does not work, i guess it is new trailer time. This trailer is almost completely rebuilt, wish i would have asked this question sooner

newt posted 03-23-2004 11:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for newt  Send Email to newt     
For what it's worth, the transom of my 1984 Montauk hangs off the bunks of my 1984 trailer about 18" or so, and I presume that it has been for the past 20 years. I never noticed any problems with the hull, but will take a closer look once the tarps come off.

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