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Author Topic:   Repower 18' Outrage with Yamaha 150 4-stroke
brkenner posted 04-10-2004 10:29 AM ET (US)   Profile for brkenner   Send Email to brkenner  

I am repowering my 1989 18' Outrage with a Yamaha 150 4 stroke. The single yamaha would be 30lbs lighter than the twin 70hp Johnsons on it now.

What kind of performance can I expect with a single 4 stroke?

John

Tom2697 posted 04-10-2004 01:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom2697  Send Email to Tom2697     
John,

I can't speak for the Yamaha on the Outrage 18, but my Suzuki 140 gets over 6 mpg, with a top speed of 37-39 knots, and enough power to troll in 4-6 foot seas at 12 knots all day long. I would expect similar performance from the Yamaha and the NEW Hondas if you prop them right.

Welcome to the 4-stroke club!

Tom

onlyawhaler posted 04-11-2004 12:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
Hi John,

Please post your results with your new 150 Yamaha 4stroke. I am interested to see how it does

Sterling

rjgorion posted 04-11-2004 08:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for rjgorion  Send Email to rjgorion     
Hello John,

I have an 84 Outrage 18 that I recently repowered with the Yamaha F 150. It's still not fully broken in with only 7.5 hrs on it but the initial report it awesome. It runs very smooth and quiet and has plenty of power. Right now I'm running the 14 x 19 standard aluminum prop but will invest in a stainless prop when funding permits. I recently purchased a gps unit as well so as soon as I'm able to get out again, I can post some performance results. In the mean time, the yamaha web site has performance results for the F 150 on an 18.5 ft. Edgewater (similar to an Outrage) listed in the hot sheet section. I hope you like yours as much as I like mine.

Ron

Bigshot posted 04-12-2004 12:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
If I were you I would love that Yamaha 150 but being Suzuki/Johnson 140's are roughly $7k, I can't justify the extra cash for the Yammie for 10hp.

39 knots is roughly 45mph and I bet if Tom set it up for speed(like I would) I could sneak 48 out of her.

alkar posted 04-14-2004 11:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for alkar  Send Email to alkar     
Hey Biggie. You say, "...being Suzuki/Johnson 140s are roughly $7K..."? Is that use of the work "being" a New Jersy-ism? You're using it almost like the word "since", but you're the only person I've ever known to do that. Did you coin that on your own, or do others do that out there?
alkar posted 04-14-2004 11:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for alkar  Send Email to alkar     
Ooops. I just re-read my post and it sounds snotty. I didn't mean it to. I respect your Whaler/boat/motor acumen Biggie. Curiosity just got the better of me on the language thing.
jimh posted 04-15-2004 12:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Well, "being" or not, the price of a Suzuki 140 is more than $7,000, at least it is on this website where they go for $8,300:

http://www.suzuki-outboards.net/Suzuki-Outboard-Engines/Suzuki-140HP.htm


Bigshot posted 04-15-2004 11:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Jimh I agree for those who can't shop but I can get them all day for roughly $7k. Some here on this forum have even snagged leftovers for $6500. "Being" Suzuki and Johnson are the same, Ed's sells the 140 for $7499.....any questions?

Must be the Jersey in me:)

Bigshot posted 04-15-2004 11:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
http://www.edsmarinesuperstore.com/johnson.htm

forgot the url. If anyone is serious about getting one, call me for a number or do a search under outboard deals I believe. We had a giant thread this fall that listed some of the cheapest dealers around the country. On in the Carolinas has/had the best prices, mine were about $200 more.

tlynch posted 04-15-2004 02:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for tlynch  Send Email to tlynch     
I bought a 2003 Suzuki 140 for $6,500 after a $500 rebate this Winter. $142 for shipping, no tax.

If anyone is interested, contact me and I will give you the name of the dealer - he is a good guy. I have no relation to him except he gave me a great deal.

Todd Lynch

Bigshot posted 04-15-2004 02:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Todd here started the thread I was referring to and was the one who scored the nice deal. This dealer had 70's for $4500 I believe as well. Be bad to mount twin 70 4 strokes on that rig.....probably cost a tad more than the 150 Yammie that dealers don't seem to be discounting much(by me).
tbyrne posted 04-16-2004 10:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for tbyrne    
This issue came up here last September - I recommend that you get your hands on the Powerboat Reports review of the Yamaha 150, Suzuki 140 and Honda 130 four strokes.

The Suzuki 140 did not do as well as one might have expected in that the Honda 130 outperformed it despite the fact that the Honda is very heavy. The Yamaha (as one might expect from a 150 in a comparison with a 130 and 140) was the clear performance winner, actually getting better mpg at 25 and 30 mph than the Suzuki 140 while reaching a top speed of 5-6 mph over the Honda, which itself was slightly faster than the "more powerful" Suzuki 140.

It also seems that those who have questioned the performance of the small displacement Suzuki 140 may have had a point.

Peter posted 04-16-2004 03:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
It's best to compare these motors (in fact all motors) in terms of displacement and HP rather than on rated horsepower alone in my opinion. There should be and there is a world of difference between a Yamaha 150 at 163 cubic inches and a Suzuki 140 at 125 cubic inches. The Suzuki is built on a bored out 90/115 block.

The difference in price doesn't reflect a difference in HP in as much the difference in displacement in my view. At $7,400 in the clean and green market, it seems the Suzuki is priced about the same as the Yamaha on a displacement basis, approximately $60 per cubic inch.

Bigshot posted 04-19-2004 01:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
You guys kill me ;)
tbyrne posted 04-19-2004 02:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for tbyrne    
Thanks for your valuable insight, BS. ;)
brkenner posted 04-27-2004 10:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for brkenner  Send Email to brkenner     
Thanks for help.

The next issue of Powerboat Reports will have the 150 4-stroke shootout, Yamaha vs Honda. In the past Hondas have just been too heavy. The Yamaha 150 is actually 30 lighter than the twin 70 Johnsons I have on it now.

I know too many people having problems with Suzuki, so I will pass on it at any price. I was a Guard boarding officer for 8 years and am a recreational fisherman for 25 years. I have learned the hard way that when evaluating boat engines, if you focus on the lowest price you are asking for trouble. I have seen too many people on the water with poor quality poorly maintained boats and motors.

SPEND THE MONEY AND BUY QUALITY.

John

Bigshot posted 04-27-2004 01:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
John

You will be the first person I have talked to that ACTUALLY knows somebody who had a problem with a 4 stroke suzuki. Between my friends and friends on this forum we have approx. 30 Suzuki engines and well over 10,000 hours without a single hiccup or warranty issue, please tell us your experience.

David Jenkins posted 04-27-2004 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Jenkins  Send Email to David Jenkins     
Bigshot, at a little over 1500 hours my year 2000 Suzuki 4-stroke DF 70 developed a water leak that cost (with labor) nearly $200 for a mechanic to repair. So it is true that they can develop problems.

I wonder if the other engines brkenner mentions typically have zero problems after 1500 hours?

brkenner posted 04-28-2004 10:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for brkenner  Send Email to brkenner     
I am not going to get into a thread on slamming Suzuki here. They are good engines for boating on inland lakes and rivers. I do not trust them for offshore use.

I trust the Coast Guard, I trust PowerBoat Reports, and I trust the local charter fisherman. I observe, read, and listen to gather as much information before buying a engine. I enjoy fishing offshore in the Gulf of Mexico when the weather permits. I chose a Boston Whaler because I believe it is the strongest, safest boat in its class. I have personally watched 25ft to 33ft boats take waves over the stern and sink. Two years ago I took a 8' wave over the bow and filled the Whaler with over a foot of water. I scrambled to pull the self-bailing plug and the boat drained while still underway and floating level.

Years ago we bought nothing but Johnson/Evinrude. Now the brand to buy in South Louisian is Yamaha. Commercials, charters, and recreational buy more Yamahas than any other brand. The Coast Guard boats have nothing but Hondas. My Whaler was not designed for nor can support the weight of the old Hondas.


PowerBoat Reports gives the Suzuki a good review, but they also say you can only put one brand of engine on your transom. They choose one because we have to choose one.

This is my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.

John

Bigshot posted 04-28-2004 11:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I did not ask for an argument I asked you to endulge with the forum you or your friends experiences with Suzuki outboards.

I quote: "I know too many people having problems with Suzuki, so I will pass on it at any price." end quote.

I have been running Suzuki outboards since 1981 and have never had one break down. My favorite brand along with you is OMC/Bombardier but being Suzuki makes their 4 strokes.....I currently run a 1999 Evinrude/Suzuki 70hp. I have run many Yamahas and have not found them anymore reliable than any other brand, actually was disappointed in their corrosion problems which I hear have been resolved. Again, we are not looking for fights....looking for valuable information on the reliability of expensive engines that we might purchase. If you have it, share it. If it your opinion, say so. If not, please don't give "hear-say" or something you read on a bathroom wall at a Yamaha dealership :)

Good luck with whatever you purchase.

Perry posted 04-28-2004 02:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
John, the Honda 115 and 130 are heavy in relation to other 4 strokes of the same size but the rest of their outboards are comparable in weight to the competition. Some are even lighter.
LHG posted 04-28-2004 02:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
I am beginning to think some people just don't like BLACK outboards! Nick, welcome to the club.
vineyarder posted 04-28-2004 03:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for vineyarder  Send Email to vineyarder     
I purchased the Suzuki 140 for my 87 Outrage 18. Cost me 7500 installed. It was installed over the winter and I just took the boat for a spin. No full throttle as it has to be broken in, but with the stock aluminum prop it planes the boat at a leisurely and quiet 2650 rpm. I would have loved the Yamaha (previous outboard was a 14 year old Yamaha 130), but the price of the Yamaha 150 installed would have been almost double the cost of the current setup (13500). I could not justify the extra 6000 for the Yamaha. I will keep all posted on how the engine holds up when fishing season in the Northeast starts in a few weeks.
goldstem posted 04-29-2004 08:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for goldstem  Send Email to goldstem     
vineyarder-
where did you get the suzuki 140 from. That is an excellent price all rigged up.

thanks-

jimh posted 04-29-2004 09:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The Suzuki engine does certainly seem to be priced very attractively. I don't think anyone can justify a $6,000 price increase just for 10-HP and a different brand of otherwise similar 4-stroke outboards.

In coastal South Carolina the Suzuki brand was very popular. I think in local areas that engine sales are very much influenced by local dealers. If you have an aggressive dealer with good pricing for a particular brand, you will see many of those engines.

In my area, southeast Michigan, the nearest Suzuki dealer is about 100 miles away in some little town on a tiny lake. For some reason they have not been able to break into this area at all. As a result, I think I can say honestly that I have never seen a Suzuki outboard in my home waters.

Suzuki has become quite strong competition because their product line is now entirely 4-stroke engines, most with fuel injection, too.

vineyarder posted 04-29-2004 02:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for vineyarder  Send Email to vineyarder     
Goldstem - Atlantic Marine in Wareham, Massachusetts.
LHG posted 04-29-2004 02:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
As evidenced in the prices indicated here, Suzuki, also through Bombardier, is clearly dumping into the US market to build up market share. There is no way their 4-strokes engines cost THAT MUCH LESS to design, engineer, produce, import and sell than the similar sized Honda or Yamaha models. We know that both Suzuki and Bombardier are desperate to build up US sales, facing the Mercury and Yamaha sales dominance in outboards and controlled transoms.

Either Honda and Yamaha are absolutley ripping us off, or Suzuki is dumping. Get them while you can, since I doubt it's going to last much longer.

Bigshot posted 04-30-2004 02:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Well according to Ed's marine superstore there is only a $2500 difference between the 140 Johnson/Suzuki and the 150 Yamaha. I still can't justify the $2500. If dealer wanted $13,500 for a 150 installed Larry is right....RIPOFF!
rjgorion posted 05-01-2004 12:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for rjgorion  Send Email to rjgorion     
Okay, maybe I can shed some light on this situation for you guys and maybe I'll never hear the end of it from you guys either but here's what it cost me.

New F 150: 10,250
New Seastar hydrualic steering:~ 1,000
Rigging: ~ 1,000
Tax: 7.75%

Grand total: $14,000 and change.


Expensive, yes. Maybe a better deal could be found with a different product? yes. Did I get top notch service from my Yamaha dealer? yes. Am I 100% happy and satisfied with what I got in terms of quality product, excellent service and the bottom line result? yes. I scrimped and saved for a long time and I paid cash for everything. This debate could go on forever with some saying they like brand A for this or that price and some saying they like brand B for this or that price but I think that what it really comes down to is personal preference. If you or I or the guy down the road has the cash to get what he wants and make himself happy as a clam, who's to argue with that? After buying the Yamaha, I had a few cents left over so I thought I would share it with you guys. Oh, I almost forgot, the cost of many years of enjoying the Whaler fishing, skiing, crusing, family, friends and good times? Priceless...

Ron

elaelap posted 05-11-2004 04:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Ron,

I like your style as well as your taste in motors. I had a Yamaha four stroke 50 hp motor on my smirkless '71 Katama and loved it, though many at this site had warned me that the boat would be underpowered...it wasn't, and I enjoyed 370 hours mostly at sea over the past year with that rig without complaint. I recently traded that boat and motor to a local dealer, as well as the '88 Yamaha two stroke motor which came with my 'new' '88 Outrage 18, for a new, rigged 2004 Yamaha 115 four stroke with multi-function tach, and though I've only got ten hours on the new motor, I'm very pleased with the combination and the deal. I might have been able to do a little better if I had gone through the hassle of private party sales, online or cross-country purchases, and an attempt at rigging the motor by myself, but I trust the dealer (he's the guy who sold me the 50, and I've been pleased with the service I've received from him since that purchase), and frankly it was worth whatever extra I MIGHT have saved to have the whole thing wrapped up into one swift, professional transaction. I'm sure the dealer made a very nice profit, and more power to him if he did. I (usually) don't work for free; I don't begrudge him his gain either.

The pleasure I gained by indulging myself a little, by not watching every last dollar and cent during this transaction, by getting my boat in the water quickly with exactly the motor I wanted...priceless indeed.

Tony

elaelap posted 05-11-2004 05:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
And Ron,

I just looked up your profile and you live right over the hill. Maybe it's a west coast, northern California kinda thing, or maybe it's the scent of those big chinooks streaming past our shore. I'm sure I'll see you out there in your sweet Outrage 18. Look for mine, 'Cetaceous;' I'll be out at least twice a week as long as the weather is decent, or email me and we can fish together some time.
(But no racing for pink slips!)

Tony

rjgorion posted 05-11-2004 09:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for rjgorion  Send Email to rjgorion     
Tony,

Thanks for the kind words, and it sounds like you have a very nice Whaler yourself. Yes, I'm looking forward to getting out there for some salmon as well but it will be a couple of weeks before I can get out. When I do, I'll look for you. My Outrage is named Horse Trader so when you see the Horse Trader coming with the shiny new Yamaha on back, that will be me.

also, I forgot to add in my previous post that all new gauges and controls were included in the final total (not that it matters one way or the other but just for informational purposes).

Thanks,
Ron

Joe Kriz posted 05-11-2004 09:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
Ron,

Any links to photos of your Outrage so the link can be added to the Outrage list?

Tony,
Ron is on my good list... The Outrage list that is... If you feel like adding yours, please do so...

www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/drawings/outrage18-hin.html

The more information we have, the better...

elaelap posted 05-12-2004 02:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Will do, Joe. I'll get the HIN info this afternoon and email you. See you this Saturday at Snug Harbor.

Tony

rjgorion posted 05-12-2004 08:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for rjgorion  Send Email to rjgorion     
Joe ,

Unfortunately, I do not have a link to photos yet but I will have in the near future and I will post a link at that time. Until then...smooth whaling,

Ron

Moe posted 05-12-2004 09:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Dang! Tony finally got his 18' Outrage? LOL! Did I miss an announcement in the General Forum?

Congrats, Tony!

--
Moe

elaelap posted 05-13-2004 09:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Thanks for that, Moe, and thanks for your great graphics or renderings or whatever they're called, as well as many of your thoughtful posts over in 'Post-Classic'...they helped me decide whether to get an older Outrage 18 and immediately repower with a new motor or buy a new Montauk 170.

Joe, Here are some numbers for your Outrage list:

HIN--BWC6197EA888
Stenciled #--A53656 (I haven't yet contacted Chuck Bennett with this number to find out my new boat's history...another fun task.)
(No teak on the gunwales; live bait tank which is about to go; 6" stainless Attwood Herreshoff cleats installed port and starboard amidships by yours truly yesterday...can't think of other significantly non-stock things.)

I put three more hours on the motor this morning. A little too rough for salmon fishing out of Bodega Bay (20-25 kt northwesterlies over sharp, steep, close interval windwaves and whitecaps...no swell to speak of--5-7 ft according to the NOAA weather buoy), so my brother-in-law and I just fooled around in the inner bay, hopelessly trolling in 60 ft of water (the salmon are out about seven miles in 260 ft; at least they were last weekend). We did pick up and shook an out-of-season 26-inch ling cod which rose to a green and blue Apex lure and didn't even drop the 2-lb ball. The 18, as promised, handles amazingly well in confused stuff which would have been substantially more uncomfortable in my old Katama.

Back in the wind-sheltered harbor I opened her up in the channel--At 5800 WOT against the weak tidal current with 210 lb me, 180 lb brother-in-law, 30 lbs of lead weights, no kicker, 3/4 tank (45 gallons) of fuel, misc fishing gear, anchor, chain, rode, etc, we got 40.5 mph on the GPS; turning around and running with the flow we hit 42.5 mph...pretty good for a barely broken-in 407 lb Yamaha four stroke turning a scratched matt black stainless 18 in (I think) prop, eh? Think I'm a little stoked?!

Tony

elaelap posted 05-13-2004 09:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
That's a 115 hp motor on my boat, not a 150, so I can just imagine what a Yamaha 150 four stroke would do on an Outrage 18 hull!
rjgorion posted 05-13-2004 09:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for rjgorion  Send Email to rjgorion     
Tony,

I'm glad to see that you finally got your Outrage and the new motor setup sure sounds great also. I haven't taken my Outrage (with the F 150) up to full throttle yet but next time out I will and I have a gps now so I'll be able to get some accurate performance data throughout the rpm range. I also recently picked up a new 13 3/4 x 19 Yamaha black steel prop real cheap so it will be interesting to see what difference that makes as well. It sounds like you are about as happy with your new Yamaha as I am with mine.

Ron

elaelap posted 05-13-2004 11:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
At the dealer's suggestion I kept the prop from the old 115 two stroke that came with my boat and put it on the new motor...he seemed to think it was a good one. I really know nothing about it, but I'm going to have a bunch of folks telling me all about it, I suspect, this Saturday at the NorCal rendezvous. Sure hope Sal M. aka Mr. Prophead makes it.

I'm looking forward to John and Ron's reports about the performance they get with Yamaha 150 four strokes. I'm sure pleasantly surprised with what I'm getting at this early stage from a 115...I would have been okay with 36-38 mph WOT. She cruises real nice at 24-25 mph at 3700 rpm, and she's much quicker out of the hole than I expected also. I'm cleaning up the transom and haven't re-mounted the Yamaha 8 hp two stroke kicker that came with the boat...hope its weight and the weight of its tank and fuel in the stern doesn't substantially affect performance.

Tony

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