Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
|Author||Topic: Hole Shot|
posted 06-03-2004 01:10 PM ET (US)
What's a hole shot?
posted 06-03-2004 01:16 PM ET (US)
Holeshot is basically a term to refer to the time it takes for the boat to achieve plane from dead stop at maximum throttle.
When you go from neutral to Wide open Throttle...the time it takes to "get out of the hole" is the hole shot.
Whaler's generally have good hole shot because of their modified tri / cathedral hull design...a deep V boat typically plows water longer but a Whaler with maximum power often jumps up on plane very quickly.
In this case, the 15' Classic Boston Whaler hull with a 70 HP motor equipped with a 15" pitched prop will spend virtually no time "in the hole"...the response is visceral and almost immediate, and if you don't warn your buddy that you're going to punch the throttle, he may end up on his back in the stern, or if he's standing, he's likely to be pitched overboard. The boat just sits up and boogies.
It can be a lot of fun.
posted 06-03-2004 02:35 PM ET (US)
I don't have any idea, myself, what "hole shot" means, but I see people using the term all the time. I don't have any source of authorative definition for it. When I see someone writing something about the way their boat accelerates, they often use this slang or jargon, and from repeated exposure to it, I infer that it must mean something about acceleration.
I don't think it is at all specific to a boat, as a search on GOOGLE.COM shows it is used often in drag racing, and the first "hit" in the search results is a link to some sort of web-based drag racing game called "hole shot".
I don't know if it exclusively refers to acceleration from standstill. I don't know if it exclusively refers to acceleration from standstill at full-throttle.
Most of the people that I know actually never try to accelerate their Boston Whaler boats from a standstill at full-throttle, so if that is what "hole shot" is referring to, why is it so important?
Boat propellers are really only able to work precisely because they do not have much of a grip on the water when they begin to spin and acccelerate the boat. If a propeller really had a good grip, most engines would stall or bog down from the high load the propeller would impose on the engine. It really is a blessing that a propeller slips a great deal as the boat accelerates from a standstill, otherwise the drivetrain of a boat would need a transmission to permit the engine to turn the propeller at low crankcase speeds.
It is also ironic that in the best, most expensive propellers, vents are added to further spoil the grip of the propeller at low speeds by allowing exhaust gas to escape and interfere with the propeller's grip by aerating the water surrounding it.
So it turns out one of things that help improve acceleration from a standing stop is lack of good grip by a propeller.
If all of this factors into "good hole shot" I am at a loss to know exactly what "hole shot" means, other than I just guess it means a boat and engine combination that has brisk acceleration from a standstill.
When a boat accelerates there often is some settling of the boat trim to a down-by-the-stern condition. This happens in all sizes of propeller-driven boats, even ones that are a thousand feet long. This settling by the stern is often called a "hole" and reference is made to a boat that really shows this tendency as "digging a hole". Once a boat's trim levels off as the boat moves onto hydroplane it is often said the boat "got out of the hole."
Perhaps you can combine all of these with the notion of being "shot out of a hole" and come up with the phrase "hole shot" meaning a boat that accelerates rapidly from a standing stop.
But where this is all written down and explained in a nautical glossary, I know not.
posted 06-04-2004 09:12 AM ET (US)
hole shot= rapid acceleration from a stopped position
kick down= rapid acceleration from an already in motion position
WOT= a term used in marine industry and on this forum meaning Wide Open Throttle...maximum acceleration/maximum
posted 06-14-2004 07:39 PM ET (US)
Interesting to finally see some clarification on this term. I never knew either, but I didn't want to ask. I came to assume it was named after the intial run to a fishing hole in a bass tournament. So much for that theory.
posted 10-07-2008 09:57 AM ET (US)
With over 50 years on the water, I've only encountered this term in recent years. Like many neologisms, it does more to reduce the clarity of communication than it does to contribute to it. I hear it most often coming from those whose knowledge of the sea I respect the least, or see it in ads marketing to those who think the waterways are a place to vent the aggressive impulses they experience while driving in rush hour traffic.
It is a sad fact that the waterways in many areas have become unpleasant, and sometimes unsafe places to be, thanks to the operating practices of unschooled skippers trying to prove that their "hole shot" is badder than everyone else's "hole shot". (I realize that this group isn't populated by such folk). I just wish people worried more about their seamanship, and plain old good manners, than "hole shots".
posted 10-08-2008 12:37 PM ET (US)
Holeshot: The speed at which a boat takes off when put into gear quickly. A quick holeshot is useful when pulling water-skiers and wakeboarders out of the water. (from about.com)
I've also heard that good "holeshot" is useful in very shallow fishing areas to allow you to get the skeg out of the sand quickly. That said, I do all I can to keep the skeg out of the sand in the first place.
posted 10-08-2008 03:29 PM ET (US)
mckee--I am with you. I never use the term "hole shot" myself, and generally the people I hear using it are not exactly nautical types. Most of the time if someone uses the term in an article to be published here I change it to "acceleration from a standing start."
posted 10-08-2008 03:52 PM ET (US)
If you are referring to the time it takes for the boat to come on plane from a dead stop, simply "time to plane" seems to be a less-slangy and more accurate description. You will see "time to plane" much more frequently in technical articles on boat performance than something like "hole shot".
posted 10-08-2008 03:53 PM ET (US)
Evinrude, Mercury Marine, Yamaha Marine, Honda Marine and Suzuki Marine all use the term hole shot on their websites to describe acceleration from a standing start. So do the propeller manufactuers.
It did originate from auto and motorcycle racing but seems to be accepted as common terminology in the boating industry as well.
posted 10-08-2008 04:03 PM ET (US)
Make up your mind. Do you know what it means or don't you?
Where have the rest of you guys been? Fishermen have been using the phrase for at least 30 years, especially bass fishermen and offshore sport fishermen. A hole shot is vitally important when you have to get to your hot spot before anyone else or if you're late for weigh-in.
posted 10-08-2008 04:40 PM ET (US)
I just realized mckee chimed in on a 4 year old thread for his first post. Hmm.
posted 10-08-2008 04:54 PM ET (US)
I believe that the reason the you are seeing the term more frequently used is the obsession with fuel economy. The "hole shot" can be valuable information for determining proper hull/power combination. The faster a boat is able to achieve plane, the less fuel consumed.
posted 10-08-2008 05:01 PM ET (US)
What's with the ancient posts being brought up anew around here? This is the third post today that has it's orgins pre-2005. This is from 2004. mckee registered yesterday and didn't even give a proper e-mail, and dredges up a 4 year old post.
First of all, I guess I should assume that the "plain old good manners" that this guy refers to includes showing up under a pseudonym with false credentials (firstname.lastname@example.org)?
Second, accelerating from a standing stop to WOT is not bad manners - there is no law against how fast you accelerate your vessel. Further, as someone else pointed out, holeshot is important when participating in water sports - especially if dragging a rather large person out of the water.
Third, some of the people whom I respect the least around here are not willing to put their name or proper e-mail on their profiles.
Finally, the speed at which you pilot the boat has nothing whatsoever to do with your skills as a captain. This is a silly assumption that in my experience, is propagated by those who prefer to go at a much slower pace. Every professional motorized vehicle operator in the world is rewarded for doing their job faster. Race Car Drivers. Taxi Drivers. Bus Drivers. Pilots. Captains of Seagoing Vessels. Think about it.
That's not to say that there are not reckless operators out there, but to group a discussion of how fast a vessel CAN accelerate into a discussion of irresponsible operators is flawed thinking. One does not follow the other necessarily.
posted 10-08-2008 05:09 PM ET (US)
I'm with you, Buckda. With 50 years on the water experience and he's only learned of this term in recent years? I guess he always had rowboats.
posted 10-08-2008 09:16 PM ET (US)
Back when I used to paddle my canoe in occasional races I always wished I had a better hole shot. I currently enjoy the hole shot of my 90 hp etec compared to the performance of my old 70 hp. As was pointed out in the ancient part of this thread, a good hole shot really does help out when trying to take off in skinny waters. Hole shot is simply a drag racing term referring to the ability to get moving faster than your opponent; hence a good hole shot refers to the ability to get a vehicle moving to a good speed (and out in front of a competitor if racing) from a standstill.
posted 10-09-2008 11:09 AM ET (US)
I think I know what other people mean when they use the term "hole shot" to talk about some aspect of their boat's performance, but I find it to be an ugly phrase, very non-nautical, and I routinely remove it from use here on my website. I'd remove it from this discussion, but it is the topic of this discussion.
posted 10-09-2008 11:42 AM ET (US)
I think that Buckda's first response essentially nailed it on the head. He was 100% correct and explained it completely.
People making allegations that "hole shot" causes captains to race in the waterways etc. is unrelated. Basically, "hole shot" is the time that it takes to get your boat up on plane from a dead stop (it's not racing), period, end of story. There are no negative connotations to the term.
If your boat is underpowered or if you have one of the older, larger model Conquests (like me), you are very familiar with the term hole shot, because your’s is lousy.
posted 10-09-2008 11:43 AM ET (US)
This is by far one of the dumbest threads I have read and hence why it was probably put to rest 4 years ago.
A holeshot is how fast you get out of the hole..very simple term. There is no set speed as far as I know like 0-30mph but many use the term in conjunction with 0-60feet times in drag racing. If your holeshot times are good then you are getting traction or hooking up.
With boating it just refers to the seat of your pants kinda deal. When comparing a 90 E-Tec to a 90 Honda you would notice the E-Tec has a much faster or better holeshot. Having a good holeshot in a boat is very good. This means when a wave is about to crash on your transom, you can out accelerate it and avoid a possible situation. If your boat wallows and is slow to plane, you might wind up with a small pond in your boat. As McKee, or shall we call him a Whaler wannabe, is totally off base. Most go-fast boats have horrible holeshots but make up for it with top speed. I have not seen many people out in public waters doing holeshots over and over again unless trying a new prop or diagnosing an engine problem. Other than waterskiers, most people do not sit around the bay doing holeshots, not exactly fun or exciting unless you have a drag boat.
In the ATV world a holeshot is what we have been talking about or a set of tires made by ITP...very expensive.
posted 10-09-2008 12:31 PM ET (US)
The term "holeshot" ought to be commonly used. It makes searches much simpler. If you want information on holeshot for a particular boat or motor, how would you search? "Montauk acceleration from stop"? "Mercury 75 2 stroke acceleration to plane"? I think it would be better if you could just search, "Montauk holeshot" or "Mercury 75 holeshot" I'm sure you'd get more hits and more specific information if you use the term "holeshot" in your search.
Now don't get me started on the whole stroke/cycle thing.
posted 10-10-2008 09:35 AM ET (US)
"Hole shot" is a very old drag racing term for the lag between the time the light turns green and you cross the starting line.
posted 10-10-2008 12:28 PM ET (US)
Sorry but that is your reaction time, not the holeshot.
posted 10-10-2008 06:18 PM ET (US)
Twist it any way you want big fella...
Two drivers can both drop the clutch at the EXACT same time, the rig with Micky Thompson slicks behind a blown 540 Keith Black Hemi, Ken Vinni heads & Glide tranny is going to have a quicker hole shot than a stock Yugo.
This term came from dragsters long long ago and has become relative to boats.
So how would you measure a boats hole shot since there is not a line drawn in the water.
The boat quickest in a very short distance (1/8 mile) may not be the fastest over a longer distance (1/4 mile).
posted 10-10-2008 06:59 PM ET (US)
Acceleration from a standing start is not particularly relevant to classic Boston Whaler boats. I really don't know anyone who runs their classic Boston Whaler boat by always pushing the throttle to maximum to accelerate from a standing start. It just is not done. And even when it is done, who cares how fast the boat accelerates? Do you get a prize if your boat is 0.1-second faster than someone else's boat? No. Hole Shot--It is just not for classic Boston Whaler boats anymore.
posted 10-10-2008 07:18 PM ET (US)
If you commonly boat in water that is already marginally deep enough to allow the boat to run without dragging the lower unit thru the bottom, then a good hole shot (time to plane) coupled with the ability to not raise the bow/drop the stern while planing off is very important. I could personally care less if someone else's boat is a better drag boat than my Montauk but I really appreciate the ability to pop the boat up on plane without dragging my prop thru countless yards of sand, mud, grass beds, and clams.
posted 10-10-2008 10:08 PM ET (US)
I find this unbelievable, some people's world is so small and judgemental.
Classic boston whalers should only be eased on plane???
I'm the one who has to die when it's time for me to die, let me live my life the want I want to. A quote from another jimi H. Hendrix that is.
Good luck with this debate, why don't you just edit 'holeshot' off your forum.
posted 10-10-2008 10:48 PM ET (US)
"propellers are really only able to work precisely because they do not have much of a grip on the water when they begin to spin and acccelerate the boat. If a propeller really had a good grip, most engines would stall or bog down from the high load the propeller would impose on the engine. It really is a blessing that a propeller slips a great deal as the boat accelerates from a standstill, otherwise the drivetrain of a boat would need a transmission to permit the engine to turn the propeller at low crankcase speeds."
Excepting deliberately ventilating propellers, or exhaust ventilation, this is pretty much at variance with everything we know about propellers. Using the language of "grip" and "traction" has led the author down the primrose path to faulty analysis. The propeller pumps water astern just fine at low RPM. Absent ventilation and cavitation, slip is primarily a function of hull drag. I would ask: what does the author believe is the cause of all this "slip" at low RPM, and what is the evidence of it.
posted 10-10-2008 11:52 PM ET (US)
I did a yahoo search on "Boston Whaler holeshot" and the first entry is form Boston Whzler's own web site.
I don't know how anyone can say that accelerating from a standing start is not relevant to Boston Whaler's.
I bet most people who own a Boston Whaler have done it at least once.
All the outboard manufactures use the term "holeshot", Boston Whaler uses it as well as the prop manufacturers.
It seems standard to me.
posted 10-11-2008 12:18 AM ET (US)
coop'--Sorry, but I am not taking the bait. You'll have to troll in another discussion or start your own.
posted 10-11-2008 12:26 AM ET (US)
In the wonderful E-TEC motion picture presentation, the first edition, where they compared the E-TEC with a Yamaha four-cycle of the same rated horsepower, the narrator refers to the test as "shooting out of the hole." This seemed to me to be about the closest anyone ever came to using the term "hole shot" in reference to boating. "Shooting out of the hole" is more descriptive, but I still don't find it much of a nautical term.
Now if someone could find a citation where nautical use preceded drag racing use, you might be able to sell "hole shot" to me. But as far as I can tell, "hole shot" is to classic Boston Whaler boats like NASCAR is to vintage Formula One racing.
Maybe "hole shot" came into boating when Jackie Stewart pronounced it "hulle shoote" and someone was confused.
|Tom W Clark||
posted 10-11-2008 12:29 AM ET (US)
I tend to agree with Perry on this. That is a ridiculous statement, though I do understand where it comes from; I myself rarely apply full throttle from a speed of zero with my Revenge 25. However, I always apply this test when I try a new set of propellers to see if they maintain their grip or if they ventilate.
But all that misses the larger point: Any kid with access to a Boston Whaler is going to do this every time they take the boat out. As a young teenager myself once, I found it was great fun to "hit it" any time I was in a friend's or neighbor's Whaler. It *is* great fun though less so once you are in your forties or fifties.
In another case, as Whaler's make excellent ski boats, there is always going to be full power acceleration when waterskiing behind a Whaler.
I do, however, agree that the term "hole shot" is a modern and unfortunate term.
|Lil Whaler Lover||
posted 10-11-2008 07:59 AM ET (US)
A few random thoughts on this rather interesting discussion.
In the 50 years (golden anniversary?)I have owned boats, the term Hole Shot has been used consistantly. When one is a young teenager trying to water ski and learn about water skiing behind a 10 or 18 horsepower outboard, the Hole Shot is everything. Has anyone on this board other than me ever changed props on a 10 horsepower Evinrude to get enough of a Hole Shot to get a water skier up?
Also what could be a more accurate term? After all a boat is often described as "a HOLE in the water into which you pour money". Are we not "shooting" out of that Hole when we get on plane on top of the water?
On a high performance bass boat, the secret of propeller development integrated with jack plates design is to find the prop and jack plate combination that will combine Hole Shot and top speed. Not often an easy task.
Jimh, the term Hole Shot does not apply well to sailboats, ergo I suggest that it not be allowed in discussions about wind driven watercraft of any kind. However, promoting the use of the term Hole Shot in referring to powerboats might help grow the knowledge base on powerboat performance.
posted 10-11-2008 08:29 AM ET (US)
Since there is no other term as universally accepted, I would think the term would be celebrated rather than ridiculed. The process of moving a boat from displacement mode quickly to planning mode in one nice neat term-"hole shot". For site or internet searches, there is no guess work in creating a phrase like "quick boat acceleration from stop". Other descriptions of performance like "the boat/the motor accelerated very well and the boat came on to plane very quickly" can be shortened considerably..."the boat had good hole shot".
In our automobiles, good hole shot is desired when entering a freeway so as to not create a dangerous, slow movement into fast paced traffic-even for soccer moms in the minivan.
As has been pointed out by others, good hole shot is important to the vast majority of classic Boston Whalers because of their wide ranging use as sport boats-especially as ski boats.
I think there is little to argue regarding the term hole shot or performance in general, unless of course you just enjoy arguing about nothing or playing devil’s advocate. I think this is even the case with jimh...why else would he have that silly "E-TECH smile" on his face in his new reference article.
For some of us, we enjoy the feeling of good performance and don't always want to treat our boats like a town car out for a Sunday drive. I think the ones who need a valid Webster’s definition for everything lose this debate.
posted 10-11-2008 10:30 AM ET (US)
This has been a very interesting and, to me, surprising discussion.
I usually run my 16 foot Dauntless with a pretty heavy load. When I want to move from one spot to another I almost always shift to forward and then apply full throttle until on plane. Getting on plane using this method takes very little time. I'd guess between four and eight seconds. Once on plane I quickly throttle back to about 3500 RPM and cruise to my destination.
For my boat with a heavy load I've found that accelerating slowly to reach planing speed results in a good deal of plowing and a large, for my small boat, wake. When it's a bit choppy a good bit of wallowing is also experienced. I prefer to just pop up on plane quickly with little or no fuss.
Larger boats with more power act differently. Two days ago on a fishing charter with friends we were aboard a 22 foot Champion flats boat with a 200 HP Yamaha four stroke with a four blade propeller. With five aboard plus a full bait well and fuel, ice, tackle, etc, the boat transitioned from idle to plane very smoothly and gradually. The only way to know we were on plane was to observe the wake or the tachometer. Our guide selected 4500 RPM for cruiseing speed and the boat made 26 to 29 knots depending upon wind direction. Very pleasant.
posted 10-11-2008 12:18 PM ET (US)
Water Skiing is one activity in which rapid acceleration from a standing start while towing a heavy load astern may be routine. We're all too old to water ski and our boat is not set up for it, so it is outside of my normal range of operation.
Operating in very shallow water and being able to transition from displacement to plane without experiencing an increase in draft is desirable for certain situations, but, again, this is outside of my normal range of operation. And I don't think that anyone who is seriously choosing a boat for operation in these conditions will be attracted to a classic Boston Whaler moderate v-hull like an OUTRAGE. There are boats designed specifically to have this characteristic--flats boats.
I also think that during the transition from displacement to plane that the bow of the boat should not rise excessively; this is a generally desirable characteristic of "good hole shot."
However, I do not think that "good hole shot" can possibly be stretched to mean all of these things. It if does, it certainly has become an all-purpose phrase. It appears to have become a term for any sort of positive attribute regarding a boat accelerating. From what is claimed here, I believe that "good hole shot" now means:
--smooth acceleration from standing start to over 20-MPH even burdened down towing hydrodynamic resistive loads like a person in the water on skis;
--acceleration from standing start to plane with no or minimal bow rise;
--minimal (but unspecified) time to transition to plane from a standing start.
Perhaps we need some quantifiers. What is the range of the following in order to qualify as "good hole shot":
--the weight that can be towed in skiing;
--the draft increase that can be tolerated;
--the bow rise that must not be exceeded;
--the duration of the on-plane transition.
SInce "good hole shot" has been recommended as a precise and perfect term for all of these, I have to say that in my ignorance I am clueless about these parameters and need your help. And since, as is claimed, "good hole shot" is in wide use and completely understood, I beg your forgiveness in advance for having to ask about this. But in this regard, I am, as WhalerME who began this discussion, unaware.
posted 10-11-2008 01:39 PM ET (US)
"Good" holeshot is too vague. Other descriptive terms for searches would be better. Skiing holeshot, heavy boat holeshot, 2 stroke holeshot, 19 outrage holeshot with 135 2 stroke mercury, etc, would all be better words for searches.
Simply said a "holeshot" refers to the action of going from a complete standstill to plane, however you go about it. Add to that "skiing", "towing", "19 outrage" as stated before would be more accurate for searches.
posted 10-11-2008 10:00 PM ET (US)
Although you may not find a universal definition of holeshot in the dictionary, I believe it is understood by those who do not have an aversion to the term itself, and has been explained rather simply here as rapid acceleration to plane from displacement. Word it as you may, but it's pretty simple. The suggestion of quantifiers is just plain silly and demonstrates an aversion to the term rather than any reasonable confusion. The quantifiers suggested in an earlier post are simply by-products of good holeshot rather than confusion of the term, at least for those who do not have an aversion to the term.
We can play this game of devils advocacy with many terms. For example, let’s take another term that is universally accepted by most here and apply the same standards of understanding that has been suggested here, say "handling". Can someone please provide a clear, concise definition of "handling"? Is it how a boat operates in high seas, or light chop, or how a boat acts with a certain propeller, or how a boat acts in a following sea, or how a boat acts when heavily loaded, or lightly loaded. Is it that the boat feels stable, stiff, loose, tight, or perhaps some, or all of these. If I buy a new boat and say "boy, this new boat sure handles much better than my old boat" what is it that I mean? I'm sure there are many other terms we can dissect and create equal confusion, but that would be unproductive and, well....silly, at least in my view.
posted 10-12-2008 08:46 AM ET (US)
I think I just read a suggestion that "hole shot" means "acceleration", and if that is case, I think "acceleration" is a clearer term, and in wider use.
posted 10-12-2008 09:11 AM ET (US)
Actually, what you read was "rapid accelleration from displacement to plane". If you don't like the term holeshot, don't use it. Again, pretty simple, or so one would think. No one is holding a gun to your head. The rest of us, Whaler, Mercury, Yamaha and many, many more in the boating community will continue to do so with a clear understanding of what is meant when it is used. And we will not argue with you for not doing so-really.
posted 10-12-2008 09:19 AM ET (US)
Actually, acceleration is a much more vague term. There's acceleration, mid-range acceleration, high speed acceleration, acceleration when pulling a skier, and on and on. Holeshot is a specific acceleration, rapid in fact, from displacement to plane.
posted 10-12-2008 09:40 AM ET (US)
What about the standing start requirement? Is that forgotten?
I accelerate my classic Boston Whaler onto plane from displacement all the time, but I don't think of that as "hole shot."
posted 10-12-2008 11:10 AM ET (US)
Well, sorry Jim. It IS a holeshot. It can be a fast one or a slow one like I use assisted by my Doel-fin. OK I'm ruffling your feathers. Doel-fin and holeshot in the same thread. Like I said, it's easier to search holeshot than all those other terms.
"Acceleration" can be from 10 MPH to 30 MPH or from 30 to 40. A hole shot is from a standstill to plane.
So if I want to search for info on "holeshot" and not use the term holeshot, what do you suggest?
It's kind of like your whole arguement about 4 cycle motors. No outboard company describes their motors as either 4 cycle or 2 cycle. Just because Mercury uses the term "FOURSTROKE" then everyone else must be "four cycle"?
Just doesn't make sense and definitely doesn't help when searching. Remember the search engines don't know what you're talking about all they do is match words.
posted 10-12-2008 11:24 AM ET (US)
Well there, finally some common ground. When I think of holeshot, I don't conjure up a mental image of you in your classic whaler either. However, I'll bet you experienced it a time or two with that 250 E-Tec. If not, you did the engine a disservice.
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