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Author Topic:   Evinrude E-TEC™ 225-HP Engine
panther posted 07-02-2004 07:09 PM ET (US)   Profile for panther  
In talking to a dealer today, he says Evinrude is coming out next month with an E-TEC™ 225-HP engine that will amaze everyone. I checked on-line, and they sound too good to be true. What is the story? Good motors?
Dick posted 07-02-2004 10:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
I got the Johnson/Evinrude 2005 dealer prices today.
Evinrude E-Tecs will be available in the following horesepowers: 40, 50, 60, 70, 90, 200, 225, and 250.

I can't list the dealer prices and Bombardier didn't include any suggested retail prices.

Dick

Buckda posted 07-02-2004 10:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Hey Dick -

Is there any reason that they skipped the 100 HP range?

I'm going to need a 150-HP engine in the next few years for my Outrage 18, and I am starting to do my research.

Thanks,

Dave

Dick posted 07-02-2004 11:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
Dave

I just put the disc back in my computer and double checked in case I had missed something. Nothing in E-TEC™ between 90 and 200 horsepower.

I don't know their thinking, but would think it to be overkill to offer a 90, 100, and a 115. I would also guess that not being married to Boston Whaler, why build a 100 for a small market. They are going to have to be very smart and target their production to cover the most demanded models to survive.

Dick

Backfire posted 07-03-2004 12:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for Backfire  Send Email to Backfire     
The 200, 225, 250 and some [High Output?] models are scheduled for production in November in the United States. Models to round out the full line, like 9.9-HP to 40-HP, and 90 -200-HP will be introduced about this time next year as a full Evinrude E-TEC™ lineup of 2006 models, all 3 star rated for EPA/CARB 2008.
Backfire
jimh posted 07-03-2004 07:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The E-TEC™ engine was first announced about 17 months ago at the Miami Boat Show in 2003. The 90-HP engine has been available for just a few months.

There is no performance information available about the 225-HP engine from customers. An article in THE GAM reported on preview testing of a 250-HP E-TEC™ engine by POWERBOAT REPORTS.

I am certain that when Boston Whaler owners have installed a 225-HP E-TEC™ engine, they will be anxious to tell us how it performs.

As is the case for all new engines, they look great on paper and in the press release, but it will take a few years on the water in order to determine if they live up to their billing.

See:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/007630.html

for information about the 250-HP E-TEC™ performance.

jimh posted 07-03-2004 07:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I don't find it unusual that there is not an engine rated at 100-HP. I don't believe any manufacturer offers a 100-HP rated outboard.

My theory to explain the lack of 100-HP engines is correlated to the number of cylinders. Manufacturers like to re-use components, so their engines are now very standardized. The same pistons are used in many models, so there is a standard bore for a cylinder. The same connecting rods are used, so there is a standard stroke for a cylinder. The horsepower ratings thus tend to jump in bands that are correlated to the number of cylinders in the engine. Within each group of engines related by same number of cylinders and displacement, tuning refinements accomplish variation in horsepower, often in three levels. Typically there is a de-tuned model, a normally-tuned model, and a hot-rod model. For example in a three-cylinder engine you might have a 60/75/90 variation in horsepower, all with the same displacement.

It seems that about 30-HP per cylinder is typical in an outboard. Thus a three-cylinder engine ends up rated as a "90". Apparently the stretch to get to 100-HP is too great for a three-cylinder model using the standard bore and stroke dimensions. Moving to a four-cylinder engine jumps the horsepower to 120 (115/125).

There is probably not enough market for a de-tuned four-cylinder engine rated at "100". It would cost quite a bit more than the hot-rod tuned three-cylinder "90" model.

Regarding E-TEC™ engines in other horsepower ranges:

The E-TEC™ injector technology has wide application in engines of small horsepower range because of the ability of the engine to self-power the electronics. It has been mentioned that even very small engines, like leaf-blower engines, can use the E-TEC™ injector technology. It remains to be seen if the same technology can be scaled upward in horsepower into the 200+ range. First reports from Powerboat Reports magazine look encouraging.

mfrymier posted 07-03-2004 04:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for mfrymier  Send Email to mfrymier     
I don't know about anyone else...but I would LOVE to see a ETEC 150HP. It could possibly weigh 50-70 lbs less than the current Yamaha 150 4 stroke, etc. What a great Outrage 18 re-power engine that would be....
just a thought! Seems that jumping from 90hp, to 150hp, to 200hp would round out the line nicely...
masbama posted 07-03-2004 04:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
Evinrude offers a 100hp engine for 2004. Check the website.
masbama posted 07-03-2004 04:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
Well, the 100hp is not on the website but it is in the 2004 catalogue. Sorry.
Peter posted 07-05-2004 10:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
There shouldn't be any question that the E-TEC technology can be scaled up succesfully to the high horsepower V6 applications. In fact, the E-TEC technology is actually more capable for high horsepower applications than its FICHT/DI predecessor. However, based on my experience so far, the current FICHT/DI system works quite well in the high horsepower configurations.

The solenoid injectors of the FICHT system have an injection rate capacity limit that is lower than the E-TEC voice coil based injectors. The FICHT injectors can cycle only fast enough to inject a quanity of fuel needed to produce about 45 HP per cylinder. The current Evinrude 250 HP FICHT/DI produces about 42 HP per cylinder, close to the capacity limit of the solenoid injectors. The E-TEC injectors are capable of cycling fast enough to inject fuel at a rate needed to produce something close to 75 to 80 HP per cylinder if I recall correctly. What that should mean is that if Evinrude wanted to produce even larger displacement V6 engines than its current 3.3 liter versions, wanted to add forced air induction (don't think we will ever see that from them--doesn't fit the simple/lighter is better methodology) or wanted to run the engines at higher RPM to get more air through the engine so as to produce even higher output engines from the existing displacement (assuming heat can be removed succesfully), it's injection system now has the capacity to provide the fuel. The voice coil system will reduce the clackety-clack sound the FICHT injectors make at idle.

I believe that Evinrude will simply keep its current HP to displacement ratios (as demonstrated by the identical displacement of the E-TEC 250 and the FICHT/DI 250) as they seem to work well enough for the outboard market's needs. However, if there is a market for a heavier high horsepower outboard as Mercury seems to believe with its Verado line, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the return of a V8 outboard weighing in at 650 lbs or less as the direct injection technology should help solve the carburetion problems (hard to keep all four carbs working properly) that let to the demise of the OMC V8. If that were to happen, then based on the current maximum of 42 HP per cylinder, they would have a CARB 3 Star rated outboard motor capable of producing at least 325 HP on regular fuel burning about 30 to 32 GPH (compare to the VERADO's 28 to 29 GPH to produce 250 HP).

As far as expectations go for the E-TEC 225, if it performs as well as the BRP produced 2002 FICHT 225s that I have but is quieter, requires no scheduled maintenance for 300 hours and is self-winterizing at the push of a button, the problem BRP will have is not being able to make them fast enough to meet demand. What a consumer benefit it would be to have a pair of V6s on the back of my boat that I could winterize simply by pushing a button. It would save me an hour or two of mixing up a winterizing mix, all the fuel line unplumbing and replumbing moves on both engines to get the mix into the engines, and running each engine long enough to make sure that the mix gets thoroughly into the engine followed by fogging them out.

I predict that the E-TEC 150 will weigh about the same as the current DI 150 -- about 405 to 410 lbs.

Deanster posted 07-05-2004 11:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Deanster  Send Email to Deanster     
I've been waiting for [E-TEC™ engines in] the 200 horsepower or higher range to come available for my 27 Center Console Cuddy which is in desperate need of a re-power. Anyone have any news, rumors, etc. on pricing?

I'd like 2x 250-HP, but the budget may only support 2x 200-HP. We'll see...

Also, does anyone know if these fit the same transom holes as 1995 Johnson 300-HP V-8's?

TexasWhaler posted 07-06-2004 12:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for TexasWhaler  Send Email to TexasWhaler     
Deanster,

aaaahhhhh the V8s. I have always been intrigued with those big OMC V-8 engines.
What kind of speed do you get out of them?

newportguy posted 07-10-2004 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for newportguy  Send Email to newportguy     
Jim,

Mecury currently builds a 115-HP Optimax that is 3 cylinders...just thought I would let you know that there are models out there.

Larry

LHG posted 07-13-2004 02:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
I just read that these new engines will first hit Dealer's showrooms in November.

Note that Peter correctly used BRP instead of Bombardier. Since being sold off, Bombardier is keeping its name for their main business, and new outboard company owning Evinrude and Johnson will simply be BRP Inc. (burp?)!

jimh posted 07-13-2004 10:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
That 3-cylinder Optimax series in the 75/90/115 horsepower ratings is essentially half of the V-6 3.0 Liter engine. What is really weird about that engine is the little 75-HP rating. This is a 1.52-liter engine! That is really under-tuned.

In comparison, the Mercury carburetor 2-stroke 3-cylinder 75/90 engine is built on a 1.38 liter, and they seem to only be able to stretch it to a "90", although we've been told from reliable sources that the engine really cranks about 98-HP. I guess, if they wanted, they could call that one a "100".

THREE CYLINDER ENGINES


Mercury Optimax 75/90/115

HP / DISP / HP/Liter
75 / 1.52 / 49.3
90 / 1.52 / 59.2
115/ 1.52 / 75.6

Mercury Classic 75/90

HP / DISP / HP/Liter
75 / 1.38 / 54.3
90 / 1.38 / 65.2

Peter posted 07-14-2004 09:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Larry, ever since the Bombardier acquisition a few years ago, Evinrudes and Johnsons have been made by the Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP) group. Now its a separate legal entity spun off from Bombardier.

Not only is the 75 Optimax under-tuned, but at 375 lbs, its overweight. If you think that Merc is under-tuned, then the V4 Evinrude Ficht/DI 75 displacing 1.7 liters (105 cubic inches) was extremely under-tuned (and also overweight). I've never thought there was much of a market for a 375 lb 2-stroke 75 HP outboard. I think it was a temporary measure intended to compete (primarily in California?) with the green 4-strokes until the much lighter 3 cylinder E-TECs arrived and since the E-TEC's arrival, I believe that they have dropped this model.

LHG posted 07-14-2004 03:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Peter - the point I was making is that "Bombardier Recreational Products" is no longer the name of the company.
It is now simply, and officially, BRP INC. Evidently, the full name "Bombardier" is being kept only for use by the parent company, making airplanes, rail cars, etc.

It seems that 70 & 75 HP clean engines, by all manufacturers, are caught in a weight problem. The lone exception seems to be the 75HP Evinrude @ 305 lb. All others weigh 350 lbs and up. The Merc 60 4-stroke EFI weighs in at a mere 248 lbs, but the 70 Suzuki/Johnson weighs 111 lbs more (45% more) at 359 lbs. Everything else goes up from there, making the 90's much more attractive a purchase. I would guess that the overall market for 70/75's is very small

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