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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
Anyone with a Whaler over 50MPH?
|Author||Topic: Anyone with a Whaler over 50MPH?|
posted 07-06-2004 03:39 PM ET (US)
[This article was moved from another forum, where it was initially posted.]
I have e a 16 Dauntless with a 115 Merc, Mercury Mirage prop. With just myself on the boat, and half a fuel tank, I have hit 54-56 MPH on the water, according to my Lowrance 350 GPS.
Boy, that sure felt good.
posted 07-06-2004 08:48 PM ET (US)
sweet! i wish i could hit 55 with my dauntless 17 + merc 115 combo... heck, i would be happy to hit high 40s. i think i am gonna have to experiment with engine height and props...
posted 07-06-2004 10:04 PM ET (US)
My Dauntless 18 with a 135 Optimax will get up to around 51-53 mph on the right day (i.e. very small chop on the water or smooth conditions). Almost too fast for comfort, in my opinion, but we have lots of logs and stumps in the water from the swamps and hurricanes. But it is a thrill to blast along at that speed for a little while.
posted 07-06-2004 10:25 PM ET (US)
BS, post your pitch, rpm, and gear case ratio.MartyD
posted 07-06-2004 10:37 PM ET (US)
Pay no attention to the guy at the dock. He's probably just too cheap to buy a Whaler. I actually had a guy come up to me yesterday and said he always wanted one and asked if I was looking to sell. There are a lot of people out there that wish they had a Whaler.
posted 07-06-2004 11:44 PM ET (US)
Here is the Data that I know
Speed is nice, but my son ( 8 yars old) that likes to see how fast I can go. I will now ask him to confirm what he has seen on the GPS. the following type is directly from him---- I saw it go 54mph one time signed conner m.
posted 07-07-2004 01:30 AM ET (US)
Something doesn't seem right. If the gear ratio is 2.07:1 then I calculate top speed with a 19 pitch prop to be 45 mph without slippage. To reach 55 mph you would need a 23 pitch prop.
posted 07-07-2004 02:07 AM ET (US)
b08bdm, I think there is something wrong with your GPS or your eyes. Boston Whaler's performance data shows that the Dauntless 160, with a 115 Mercury 4 stroke does 43.6 MPH at 6000 rpm. The same boat with a 115 Mercury Optimax goes 45.8 MPH with a 18 pitch prop.
Does your boat have a 115 Merc 4 stroke or 2 stroke?
posted 07-07-2004 02:09 AM ET (US)
I can consistently get over 50 in my 1997 Rage with the sportjet 175.
(I almost didn't post this...I know the attitude towards Rages here!)
posted 07-07-2004 02:58 AM ET (US)
A 115 Optimax 2 stroke.
Not sure what gear ratio is, but have made multiple runs to confirm average runs on the GPS.
posted 07-07-2004 06:48 AM ET (US)
A GPS set to display nautical rather than statute miles would display 47 mph as 54 kn. Just a thought.
posted 07-07-2004 09:14 AM ET (US)
Moe, I believe that would be the other way around- 54 mph is equal to 47 kt.
Top speed on my 160 Dauntless with a 115 4-stroke and 16" Vengeance is 44-45 mph, averaged both directions. I could probably squeeze out another 1-2 MPH by dropping the bimini and running an almost empty tank, and maybe another 1-2 with an 18" high-performance prop. But 54 mph on my rig? No way.
posted 07-07-2004 09:49 AM ET (US)
Maybe the gps was set to km/h? (56km/h = 35mph). It may seem to be on the low side but the 115 Optimax really isn't a great performer either.
posted 07-07-2004 09:54 AM ET (US)
Duh! That's what I get for posting before finishing the first cup of coffee! Thanks, Marlin.
|BOB KEMMLER JR||
posted 07-07-2004 10:01 AM ET (US)
Diveguy-I hear those 175 Rages are absolute screamers and that bone stock they would go 55mph and with a few aftermarket parts and some tweaking,they can easily go 60+.
posted 07-07-2004 11:06 AM ET (US)
I get doubtful responses everytime I've posted the speed I get on my 18'Dauntless. But I've checked it and double checked it. Both my Lowrance "water wheel" type speedo and my GPS are in agreement. Maybe they're both wrong . . .
I have a 19" pitch SS cupped prop, 135 Optimax. Approx 51 mph at redline (5600 rpm) with a full tank of gas, and two occupants.
posted 07-07-2004 11:38 AM ET (US)
I also have a Lowrance GPS/FF. It has two speed readings. One for ground speed and another one for water speed. Ground speed reads your speed from the GPS which is more accurate for higher speeds. The water speed is read off your paddle wheel and is more accurate at slow speeds like trolling.
I have notice a 10% difference from GPS and paddle wheel at times.
posted 07-07-2004 11:50 AM ET (US)
My Ourtrage 22 with twin Yamaha 130s will get to 51 mph on the GPS with me and a couple of kids on a cool day. I'm under-propped and the engine needs to come up another inch - I'm curious to see if that changes anything...
posted 07-07-2004 12:24 PM ET (US)
My Outrage 22 would do 53 MPH by GPS with a single 225 Evinrude @ about 5400 RPM before I added an arch.
Now, with the arch, full tank of gas, two batteries in the splashwell, 8 HP Yamaha 4S kicker, two adults and full Mills canvas flying, I'm getting 45 to 46 MPH @ about 5700 RPM (higher RPM due to better tuned engine, motor mounted higher and higher trim).
posted 07-08-2004 01:05 AM ET (US)
I believe LHG's OUTRAGE 25 with 400-HP has gone over 63-MPH (measured with DGPS) in propeller tests.
posted 07-08-2004 05:05 AM ET (US)
19 pitch with a 2 to 1 lower unit (opti 135) 5600 rpm and 8% slip yields 46 mph. My own 97 Dauntless 20 with a 98 evinrude 175 (1.86 lower unit) 17 Pitch SST gives me 44 mph at 5600. MartyD
posted 07-08-2004 12:47 PM ET (US)
Sheesh... Skeeters, Rangers, Tritons and many other relatively light bass boats with go-fast type hulls are hard pressed to hit 65 mph with 225's. Don't expect me to believe any Whaler that isn't WAY overpowered could come close to that. GPS readings or not, it's BS. Back to the drawing board boyZ.
posted 07-08-2004 01:25 PM ET (US)
When I saw those numbers 54-56 MPH I was thing maybe my 160 Dauntless with a 115 4s Mercury was a dog for only getting low 40's WOT @ 5800 RPM with a stock Vengeance 16P prop. But I gather from the rest of the posts that b08bdm's numbers are exceptional.
What the heck, I tend to loose too many hats over 40 MPH anyway. :)
posted 07-08-2004 01:34 PM ET (US)
Boat owners tend to be overzealous when it comes to MPH; boat dealers and salespeople too. The only legit method of checking speed is with a radar gun, and last time I checked not many of us own one of those critters.
posted 07-08-2004 01:42 PM ET (US)
There's a guy here on the forum somewhere who reports 50.3 MPH on his Montauk 170 powered by a 115 horse Mercury 4 stroke.
I am in the process of repowering my Montauk 170 to a 115 Merc 4 stroke , and I, too, hope to hit 50 MPH. I will post results when available.
posted 07-08-2004 01:52 PM ET (US)
Hitting 50 with a new 115 on a Montauk is no big deal. Prop it right, get it in the correct position on the hull, and it'll fly... maybe 55 with a 21-23" prop. Just keep in mind that Whaler, and many members at this site feel that you've technically over-powered the hull to achieve this speed. Have you really?... I think not. Whaler should become a bit less conservative and allow higher HP ratings on all of their hulls. They can easily handle it.
posted 07-08-2004 02:29 PM ET (US)
Panther - why isn't speed measured by GPS "legit"?
Everything I have seen has indicated that consumer GPS units should have a maximum error of 0.5 mph, and more like 0.1mph would be more typical.
While there are errors inherant in the position information used in velocity calculations used by the GPS a) these position errors don't change much over short periods of time and b) GPS tend to use moving averages to calculate speed which significantly increases accuracy.
posted 07-08-2004 02:35 PM ET (US)
Plotman, in theory I agree with you that GPS speed measurements should be accurate. In practice, for whatever reason, they're usually not. Cheap units, atmospheric pressure, the boogyman, I don't have the answer. Our dealership had access to a cop's radar gun for a couple of weeks and that was a lot of fun. Really put the hurt on "top speed claims" by a few of our customers.
posted 07-08-2004 05:30 PM ET (US)
To clear up the confusion, assuming it is not a troll, I think this thread involves the somewhat rare, 2.5 liter V-6 based 115 Optimax. Not many were made, they are nothing but the 135 V-6 Optimax in disguise, a hot performer. His use of a 19" Mirage Plus prop gives it away. Mirage props are not made for the regular 75-125 Merc gearcases, oinly for the V-6's, nor do Merc performance props for the 4 1/4" gearcase come in odd numbering. The gear ratio is 2.00, not 2.07, and a 21" pitch would be needed to achieve these speeds.
posted 07-08-2004 06:46 PM ET (US)
Can't resist talking about speed, So it's true a 16'9" 73 Katama with a mid 90's(fresh)120 Evinrude (6200 rpm)equiped with a 23 pitch prop can push the hull well over the 50 mph mark much to the suprise of the local jet skiers however how much over 50 is the big question, the guys on the jet skies swore they could do over 60 but my speedo indicated only 54, the bottom line; as long as you can beat the guy on the dock with the mouth who cares what the absolute speed really is...
posted 07-08-2004 07:36 PM ET (US)
posted 07-08-2004 08:42 PM ET (US)
I like this photo because it shows most of the necessary information. 22' Revenge, 1996 225 Yamaha, 19 x 14.25 stiletto prop. The boat has a radar tower and the canvas was down. The DGPS did hit 49mph however I began to run over my wake from my first pass and thought it better to hold on instead of trying for another photo. Never have seen 50 mph without the trailer beneith it.
posted 07-08-2004 11:10 PM ET (US)
To clear up the GPS thing.
GPS measures your speed over the bottom of the lake, rive or ocean.
In a lake gps speed will be very accurate but on a river or ocean, there is current from tides that run anywhere from 2 kts to 8 kts in Alaska.
If your going with that 8 kt current your going to see a very happy boat owner, but if your going against that current you going to see a speed of approx 8 kts slower than it's really going.
To get the correct speed your running "OVER THE TOP OF THE WATER" not the bottom, there can't be any current or horrizontal movement of the water from tides.
posted 07-08-2004 11:55 PM ET (US)
Sal makes a very good point. To get the most accurate data you should really make two runs on 180 degree opposite directions and average them. This would also tend to cancel the effects of wind speed.
posted 07-09-2004 11:15 AM ET (US)
2:1 with a 19" is not possible to hit over 50 @ 5200, no way no how. With my 1.86:1 at 5900 with a 19" prop I get about 50 on the nose.
posted 07-09-2004 08:10 PM ET (US)
My fastest Whaler was a 16' with an Evinrude 48 hp on it. I had it doing over 80 mph one day !! Then we got off the interstate and I put it in the water.
posted 07-09-2004 09:38 PM ET (US)
Kingsteven, that is a good one!! Maybe that explains how some of these whalers are going so fast.
|b h willey||
posted 07-11-2004 02:38 AM ET (US)
I've a 21 rage w/ yamaha 225 2 stroke max speed
42 mph. cap plate says max 300hp, if I installed
twin 150's could I get to 50?
posted 07-11-2004 10:23 AM ET (US)
Willey, if your not getting 50 mph now, something isn't right on your setup.
posted 07-11-2004 02:47 PM ET (US)
Even with Sal's guidance and expertise, my 2000 Montauk with a Merc 115 4-stroke, 17" pitch Stilleto, is unable to reach 50 mph (49.5 GPS, absolutely max). I believe there is truth to the 135 Optimax being disguised as a 115 Optimax, especially with that kind of reported speed and lower unit.
posted 07-11-2004 05:39 PM ET (US)
Slice the pie any way you want. The truth is, it takes boo-coo horsepower to move things fast. Step on up with your checkbooks or get over it.
posted 07-11-2004 06:09 PM ET (US)
I'll take the biggest 99 cent slice you've got there Panther. Sweat equity and ingenuity will sometimes even outpace a fat checkbook.
posted 07-12-2004 12:00 AM ET (US)
It can be done.
|b h willey||
posted 07-12-2004 01:30 AM ET (US)
Sal, thanks for response. at WOT my tach says 5200 rpm.
My outrage 21 has a 120 gal fuel cap. I typicaly avg.
75 % cap. ususally two people on board. the boat has a radar arch with bimini top , no trim tabs. The prop is a
teflon coated ss, I believe a 19" pitch three blade.
The boat has a 1998 225hp yamaha salt water series 2 with power trim. The engine appears to have an extra long shaft. How can I get more than 42mph out of this boat?
posted 07-12-2004 02:35 AM ET (US)
Brian, you mentioned the length of the shaft. The anticavitation plate (large flat surface above the prop) should be even with the keel (lowest part of the hull). If your motor had a extra long shaft (30") the anticavitation plate would be aproxamately 5" below the keel and be causing reduced performance. I believe that boat would typically use a 25" shaft, could someone confirm this?
posted 07-12-2004 09:08 AM ET (US)
Marlin: Do you have a foil or tabs on your Dauntless?
posted 07-13-2004 09:49 PM ET (US)
2003 Montauk with 2004 Johnson 175 2-stroke, 52 knots full of gas and oil with all the extra gear, just me. It'll run 35 knots at 3800rpm. I've even got it up for sale :), but that'll be posted in marketplace.
|b h willey||
posted 07-14-2004 12:01 AM ET (US)
Peetmin, Thanks for the tip. I'll check out this measurment
This boat is the first outboard I've owned, and have alot to learn it appears.I'll reply back.
posted 07-14-2004 06:43 PM ET (US)
I want to know what KATAMA was doing in a speedo (aka: banana hammock) and how it tells speed?...ha ha. And I want to believe the over 50 mile an hour stats..just for the fun of it. At this point I'll be happy rowing my FUTURE OUTRAGE out to fish, that is if I ever find it...
posted 07-14-2004 07:29 PM ET (US)
Any thoughts on what my 17 outrage with 150 HP Evinrude injected outboard should top out at?
I think I will turn on the gps this weekend and find out.
posted 07-14-2004 10:30 PM ET (US)
My Outrage 17 with an Optimax 135 and a Vengeance SS 19 pitch prop will regularly show me at 47 MPH on the GPS. That's close to theoretical at 5400 RPM, 2.0 ratio,and a 5% slip. Don't know as I'd want to go faster on SF Bay. I'd guess I'm really doing between 44 and 45. If I look at the paddle wheel output on the fish finder, I'll wet myself. It only seems accurate up to 24-25 mph.
posted 07-16-2004 01:35 AM ET (US)
Willey, with the bimini & arch, your creating alotta drag up there.
I still think you can get at least another 6 - 8 mph out of her.
By any chance is the engine mounted all the way down on the transom ?
If so, raise it up 2 sets of holes & you should gain another 3 - 400 rpms which should push you pretty darn close to 48 - 50 mph.
When you test run her, you must trim her out to the very maximum she can take, in order to get as much air under her to break her free from the water.
The less boat that touches the water, the faster she will run.
posted 07-18-2004 09:09 PM ET (US)
Before I switeched props, my Outrage 24 had 19p 3 blade props on twin 150hp Yamahas. My rpm was 5800 and according to my GPS, I was hitting just over 52mph at WOT. I've since changed props & kept the same pitch, but in 4 blade. My rpms are 5200 at WOT and mph just touches 48mph. I cruise around 31-32 mph and feel better at those speeds.
One thing I did notice, in changing the props, is that there is a lower pitch (quieter engine tone) from the engines - allowing guests to speak and hear eachother without shouting. I'm very happy I made the switch. Speed is not the name of game, enjoyment is! However, I'm glad to know I've got the power there if I needed it.
posted 07-18-2004 10:19 PM ET (US)
My 1975 Outrage 21 with 200hp Merc 2.5L EFI with 19" pitch Laser II SS prop will hit mid to upper 50's at 5800-6000rpm on a hot summer day. It cruises nicely at 3000 rpm at a mere whisper but sounds like a NASCAR stock car at idle. Fourty to 45mph is fairly comfortable but at 50 and above it's white knuckles... at least for me!
posted 07-19-2004 09:38 AM ET (US)
skred, I installed a hydrofoil on my 160 Dauntless this year (SE Sport 200, a whole 39 bucks) and I've been very happy with it. If I had to do it again, I'd install the larger Sport 300 and be more careful that the mounting holes didn't impinge on the trim tab (duh!!!), or go with the no-holes Turbo Lift. Tabs would probably be even better, but I think the swim ladder mounting makes it impractical on this boat.
|b h willey||
posted 07-24-2004 12:49 AM ET (US)
Sal. I think I've got it figured out!
I'll leave my wife at the dock!!!
Should be able to hit 60 mph w/o her.
|b h willey||
posted 07-24-2004 12:54 AM ET (US)
Sal, I checked out engine height position.
you were correct in assuming my engine too deep.
My mechanic talked me out of raising two holes initially
So up one. top speed now with calm seas and wind,current.
46 mph on gps.
Thanks again pal.
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