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  Which BW is Best for my conditions?

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Author Topic:   Which BW is Best for my conditions?
uberhahn posted 08-03-2004 03:48 PM ET (US)   Profile for uberhahn   Send Email to uberhahn  
OK,

I've been "ghosting" here for a long time and appreciate the great discussions.

My boating conditions are as follows:

1-I must have the ability to trailer my boat (pickup truck)
2-The boat will function as a family excursion boat (myself, wife, dog) and occasionally friends on the water.
3-Inland lakes will make up approx 50% of water-time (calm water)
4-Remainder of the time will be spent on Lake Michigan (MI side). I need to be able to manage in relatively rough water (I need to be able to make it back to port if I get caught in 3-4ft swells/chop). Occasionally, it would be fun to jump a few waves :)

So, i'm in a quandry. I know that a Whaler is the boat I want. Which boat to go with? Dauntless, Mauntauk, Nanucket... Size 17-20ft? Is there a durability or "ride quality" issue with an older boat?

I'm open for discussion.

Thanks for any replies and personal experience.

uberhahn

prj posted 08-03-2004 05:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for prj  Send Email to prj     
Two more bits of information may assist the crew:

1. Budget, number or range
and
2. Truck size, tow capacity.

You're going to like this thread...

Plotman posted 08-03-2004 05:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Plotman  Send Email to Plotman     
Classic 18/19 outrage. Montauk would also work fine. It will get you home (a 13 will get you home), you just might not be as comfortable.

David

uberhahn posted 08-03-2004 06:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for uberhahn  Send Email to uberhahn     
I have enough capacity to tow 12K lbs.


Budget is approx $30K. However, less is more, so to speak.
I'd like to be able to go 4hrs cruise with onboard fuel with no issue.

What type of hull "rides" best?

acseatsri posted 08-03-2004 06:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
18' Classic Outrage with 65 gal fuel capacity gets my vote as the minimum. I wouldn't like being in a Montauk in 4' seas- I'm not crazy about it in my 18' either, but the ride is considerably better than the Montauk. If cost, towing ease, and fuel economy are not objectionable, get a 22' Outrage.
Buckda posted 08-03-2004 07:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
With a $30K budget, you should have no problem's buying a "good condition" 18' Outrage and adding Mills Canvas and a stern seat for your guests.

If you're willing to go the extra 2 feet, I recommend the 22' Outrage too, but if you can find one, a 20' Outrage (somewhat rare) would be a good option too.

But I'm really biased to the Outrages because I like their layout. There is a 20' Revenge that might also suit your needs very well, and has the added benefit of a small cabin where your wife or friends can go to get shelter from rain or sun.

Which port on Lake Michigan are you boating out of? I run out of St. Joseph often, and could let you get a test run on an 18' Outrage if you're interested (though my weekends are booked until early september with various Rendezvous!).

Regards,

Dave

JMARTIN posted 08-03-2004 07:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for JMARTIN  Send Email to JMARTIN     
Buy Jim's Revenge 20 WT. It is listed in the marketplace.
jimh posted 08-03-2004 08:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
JMARTIN--I like your thinking! I'll throw in the custom rear seat for those times when the friends come along! Plus a full tank of gas!

http://continuouswave.com/jimh/forSale.html

fishgutz posted 08-03-2004 10:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for fishgutz  Send Email to fishgutz     
I have a 14 Dauntless. 25MPH and a 2 foot chop and it like i'm on a pool table. A 16 Dauntless or 18 would be a great all around family boat and gives a super smooth ride. Jump some waves and fit your pocketbook.
Knot at Work posted 08-04-2004 08:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for Knot at Work  Send Email to Knot at Work     
170 Montauk. Get the 90 HP 4 stroke. For 30K you can get any Electronics you desie and and 27 Gallon Pate.

DaveH posted 08-04-2004 09:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for DaveH  Send Email to DaveH     
I would look at the early 1990s 21' walkaround.
* Offers extended late-season cruising in Michigan due to full windscreen
* Cabin with head for guests with modesty
* Walkaround style offers quick, unencumbered access to the bow.
* Bow pulpit makes anchor storage easy, and allows potential auto windlass installation.
* Full stern with jump seat will help keep your dog from being launched into the water during rough seas.
* Easily trailered by your rig
* One of the best boat design ever created by Whaler-not too small, not too big.
* Very high quality materials used on this boat.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage75.html

SSCH posted 08-04-2004 09:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for SSCH  Send Email to SSCH     
I owned an 18 Outrage a few years ago and would vote for that rig. It can easily be launched by one person, it is large enough for open water, and there are few better looking boats.

If you go with this boat either a 150 or a 130 engine will meet your needs and get good fuel economy.

You can stay with a single axle trailer for this boat.

I found it almost the feel of the 22 without the costs or difficulty in handling (and trailering). Having said that, I traded mine in on a 22 Outrage which did give me a better open water boat.

erik selis posted 08-05-2004 03:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
My advice: (not necessarily in this order)

- 170 Montauk with 90-hp 4-stroke and pate tank (like Jeff/Knot at work said) This one has the best fuel efficiency of my 3 choices.

- JimH's 20-ft Revenge ( a great boat and I would be living on the other side of the Atlantic I would already have bought it)

- 18/19-foot classic Outrage. All-round fantastic boat that will suit all your needs.

Erik

David Ratusnik posted 08-05-2004 02:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Uber- I have a little experience with the 22' Outrage. The boat is primarily set up to fish. I don't note that as a primary activity in your original post.

JMartin's note to look at a 20' Revenge (jimh's) makes a ton of sense. Simply more creature comforts plus easier to
tow and handle by yourself at the dock.

.02 David 22'Outrage'86

Buckda posted 08-05-2004 07:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Uber -

Agreed on the 20' Revenge - nice ride too with the extra weight of the cabin up front.

of course, it's up to you. David is right that the Outrage series is "set up for fishing," but with your budget, you can rig one of these great boats for cruising too.

Why, next week there will be 3 18' Outrages, 1 19' Outrage and a Montauk cruising more than 600 miles in Lake Huron (The North Channel and Georgian Bay).

I can tell you that very little fishing will be done on this trip.

Ride quality is more a function of the captain than of the boat, but let's face it, if you're running into a headsea with a Boston Whaler boat, you're in for a tough (but dry) ride.

The Outrage/Revenge models will help to reduce this with their deeper entry; the classic Montauk can have a tendency to pound in the chop that the Great Lakes can kick up (especially on the "West Coast" of Michigan with a 60 mile fetch). For the smaller inland lakes, the Montauk will be marvelous...and don't get me wrong - it will also handle the big lake fine, but with a less comfortable ride than the Outrage or Revenge.

Again, it's up to you, but for less than $20K, if you're looking to do a little cruising with women aboard and aren't a speed demon, JimH's rig is just about perfect, and it's in exceptional condition.

Regards,

Dave

handn posted 08-06-2004 11:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for handn  Send Email to handn     
I don't know about your wife, but mine insists on a head. She picked out a 2000 23 conquest with a porta potty down below. I grumbled because I wanted a center console. However, after 4 years and 1200 hours, I love the Conquest. It fishes real well and handles a bit more than 3 to 4 footers with comfort, dryly and safely. 23 Conquests are starting to come down into the high $30000 range.
P.S. If you have sleepy kids they can nap down below and if you and your wife are small, you can overnight in the boat.
Grumpy posted 08-13-2004 09:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Grumpy  Send Email to Grumpy     
If you're not into major fishing, you probably don't want a center console on Lake Michigan. This can be one COLD place to boat! I run out of Ludington in an 18 ft. Ventura with canvas enough to keep warm in the elements. (I have Moss aftermarket - excellent fit and quality and more headroom than the standard BW set up.)
The Ventura is the same hull as a Dauntless (stable, planes quickly, pounds in a head sea) and the package fits in a standard garage. I have a 135 OptiMax which is seems to be plenty of motor.
I look at BWs every year but still haven't found a better set up for the Lake than my 1999 Ventura.
BTW - Lock Tite all your cockpit hardware if you like to go fast on the Big Lake - the boat will take a ton of pounding but things DO come loose from time to time!
"You can't complain if you land INSIDE the boat"
mustang7nh posted 08-15-2004 08:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for mustang7nh  Send Email to mustang7nh     
"The perfect boat"??? Like searching for the Holy Grail. You'll need to prioritize your parameters a bit as all boats are a compromise of sorts. Jumping waves in a smaller boat is easier and can be done at lower speeds. My 22 Outrage can get air but typically I need to be moving a bit faster than my 15ss so the landing and ride can be somewhat harsh. You're wife won't appreciate it and if you're over thirty you probably won't either :)

$30k rules out new boats over 18". I've heard the Great Lakes can be cold and rough, hence I would go with 22 or 25 classic hull. Revenge will work best for family as it will block the elements. 23 Conquest...had one... still in the family and I went out in it yesterday. Nice boat and a possibility except I don't feel its easy to trailer often. You'd want a nice trailer setup (search for other posts about trailering a 23). Conqeust will have nicer amenities than a Revenge. Your wife will love it. Sometimes that's what matters most! Hence:

1. Conquest 23
2. Revenge 25
3. Revenge 22

Best of luck!

northwhaler posted 08-15-2004 07:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for northwhaler  Send Email to northwhaler     
Uber,

Great question to start a thread with!

A couple things that you may want to consider.

On the inland lakes that you plan on boating on, if you haven't already, you should go and check out the public landings, to see what size boat they can handle. I own and trailer a 20' Ventura, which is too big for many of the landings on the lakes closest to my home. They have too gradual of a slope to handle a boat with a big deep vee.

This was mentioned before, but you may want to check into boats with a head onboard if your wife will be doing a lot of boating with you. We don't spend the family time on my Ventura that we spent on the water when I owned bigger boats with a head. I believe that the Ventura 21 has a head.

As to where you are going to boat and the weather you might encounter...I boat Superior, larger Minnesota inland lakes, and one or two trips a year to Michigan for Salmon and Trout, and have always been VERY happy to have the dual console design, so that I can "shut off" the main deck of the boat from the cold wind or rain. My fishing partners appreciate having a full windshield in front of them as well. On cocktail cruise days, an open bow dual console will seat 8 or more people, so good utility for bringing the neighbors for a ride.

BTW, I have encountered 3's and 4's with my Ventura, and feel that a 20' Whaler will handle them just fine. I have also had 9 people on board while pulling a skier or tube out the back, and the boat is a great recreational boat as well.

This style Whaler was also known as the Dauntless DC, and I believe that with a trailer and 175 HP or higher with some canvas should run in the mid to high 20' or very low 30's.

Good luck with your decision! There is no one perfect boat, but perhaps you'll get enough input on others experiences to help you find the best comprimise for our situation.

Don

rbruce posted 08-15-2004 11:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for rbruce  Send Email to rbruce     
Whaler'smen:

What happened to the Ventura 180 in your recommendations?

I like the seating arrangement specially with friends and it is a deep V design that will let you cut through the chop.

I wouldn't venture into rough waters in a small boat though!

Robert

newport jack posted 08-16-2004 01:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for newport jack    
It does seem like a joke but the 20 Revenge that is for sale by jimh is an awsome boat, The pictures look as if it is brand new, he took good care of it.I talked to my wife this afternoon while on my 17 Newport about driving to Mi to check it out, after she mentioned missing the cabin and the head we had on the last boat. The 20 foot hull will ride a lot better then the 17' Montauks and Newports. Getting to the front for docking and anchoring is done easily with the stairs, don't let the twin 70hp motors put you off, I had twins already the throttles are easy to get used to it's sort of a feel on the bottom of your feet thing you can tell when you are matched up! If the age of the motors are a problem, trade them in on new motors you still will be under that $30,000 number, check out Jims boat before doing anything else, if nothing else he has a wealth of knowledge about Whalers.....................and you don't have to drive from Pennsylvania, I just might!!!.........Jack

PS Jim, I am considering your boat, wife wants to look at pictures, but two daughters in college is hurting me, but wife did say sell the Newport first then get it!

Buckda posted 08-16-2004 11:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Just got back from 6 days in the North Channel and Georgian Bay of Lake Huron in my 18' Outrage with full Mills canvas weather system. Cool mornings and rainy days - and I didn't get wet at all, and was never uncomfortable. The Outrage when rigged properly is a dry and comfortable boat for cruising - but if you do leave out the canvas, it's cold and windy.

That said; the windshield option is nice to have and would likely be preferred by many, specifically those who have to contend with making their wife happy (I don't have this challenge).

Running through 3-4 foot chop in the North Channel alongside a 17' Montauk and another 18' Outrage, I can tell you that I was likely the most comfortable of the three boats - we were headed directly into the wind and chop and the Montauk, while equipped with a shelter, windshield and flying top to knock down spray and wind, was barely able to stay on plane.

The other 18 was an open boat with no canvas, and while the ride was the same, he was exposed to the wind and any spray that he may have had.

I was running behind the shelter and windshield, and under my flying top; completely out of the wind, and able to stay up on plane, running about 22 MPH without a problem; and the ride actually became "smoother" at 30 MPH. it was a tough afternoon (we went about 35 miles into this sea state); but we definitely were held up by the Montauk. Not a fun boat for those conditions.

The advantage of the Outrage in a rough sea is that you are standing at the helm - you can use your knees to absorb some of the shock when hitting waves - you can stand at the helm of the revenge, but it is not as comfortable.

I still vote for the 18' Outrage with full canvas first, then the 20' Revenge.

Dave

Gep posted 08-16-2004 01:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for Gep  Send Email to Gep     
Dave,
Actually it was 8 days, and your just too much of girly-man to come out from behind your Mills canvas and enjoy the wind and spray in your face. :)

Joker

Buckda posted 08-16-2004 02:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Can you tell who was in the other Outrage?

:)

newport jack posted 09-26-2004 10:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for newport jack    
THANKS UBERHAHN!! Your posting back in August got me thinking about jimh's boat, and like I had said in the my reply I just might drive to Michigan from Pa to check it out........I DID and the boat is in my driveway now, it is a great boat and the ride is so much better then the 17' hull, I drove it in Lake Erie on Saturday, Blue Marsh lake in Pa. today, to say I'm thrilled with the boat is an understatement. Thanks again UBERHAHN, your posting got my wife and I talking......Jack (not a tire kicker)
Draftmanswife posted 09-29-2004 05:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Draftmanswife  Send Email to Draftmanswife     
Is this your first boat?
Draftmanswife posted 09-29-2004 05:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Draftmanswife  Send Email to Draftmanswife     
re-read the thread...Congrads Jack!
Now we still have to find uber a boat!
panther posted 09-29-2004 06:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for panther    
Uberhahn asks: Which BW is Best for my conditions?

My answer: The spanking new one that hasn't become waterlogged yet.

LHG posted 09-29-2004 08:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
I was going to say the best boat would be the spanking new 26 Regulator, that just sunk in the hurricane, and is being salvaged for $1000.
panther posted 09-29-2004 09:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for panther    
lhg, rather than expressing this continual overt jealousy in regard to my Regulator, why don't you take out a third mortgage on your mobile home and buy one for yourself? If you remove some of the broken down appliances and wrecked autos from your yard, you might even have space to store it.
TexasWhaler posted 09-30-2004 10:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for TexasWhaler  Send Email to TexasWhaler     
LHG,

brahahaha. That was great. It's becoming more and more clear that panther lives under high voltage power lines and eats lead-based paint chips.

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