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Author Topic:   Bombardier Recreational Products E-TEC™ Engines
mercman posted 08-10-2004 01:08 AM ET (US)   Profile for mercman   Send Email to mercman  
What is the news on [Bombardier Recreational Products E-TEC™ engines]? Any one know.?
onlyawhaler posted 08-10-2004 01:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
The 2005 big V-6s 200's, 225's are due out late this year. I am holding off for the 150 for my 18OR. It looks like they won't come out until 2006 if that for the midrange V6's. We have a dealer in northern Utah that is more optmistic about Evinrude than a few years ago.

We'll see!

Sterling
Onlyawhaler

chopbuster posted 08-10-2004 07:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for chopbuster  Send Email to chopbuster     
I am considering a purchase that will allow me to "swap out" the packaged Merc. for an Evinrude E-TEC.
seahorse posted 08-10-2004 10:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     
I ran both the V6 200 E-TEC and a 75hp version. That V6 was as quiet as a 4 stroke at idle, but it even ran better, idling at only 500 rpm. Throttle response was instantaneous and the motor was quiet at all speeds. It even charges about 18 amps at the 500 rpm idle.
onlyawhaler posted 08-11-2004 02:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
Hi Seahorse

Where did you run a E-TEC 200?. I had heard they wouldn't be out for a few more months.

Sterling
Onlyawhaler

seahorse posted 08-11-2004 07:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     
Last week I had the honor to spend a couple of hours in a similar rig as is featured in the latest Trailer Boats Magazine. It was a 23' HydraSport Bayboat with an E-TEC 200 on it.

That motor is awesome and for a crusty old fart who was a young kid when the V4 50hp was introduced in '58, I was super impressed with the whole design.

No vibration, no smoke, super quiet, 500 rpm idle, couldn't feel it shift, etc etc.

Bombardier says the 200-225-250 will be coming off the production lines in a couple of months.

John from IL posted 08-11-2004 03:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for John from IL  Send Email to John from IL     
I've had the opportunity to drive a few E-TEC's including the 225HO V6. The 225HO was on a Stratos 201, with two 200+ pounders and a full load we were running at 70mph on the gps. Incredibly strong, quiet engine.

-John

David Ratusnik posted 08-11-2004 05:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
John- At what rpm?? D
mercman posted 08-11-2004 06:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for mercman  Send Email to mercman     
I'm thinking of trading my 50 Mercury for a 40 or 50 h.p. E-TEC. But i would like to run one first. If anyone ran one let me know what you thing about them. Would it out perform the Mercury?
John from IL posted 08-13-2004 01:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for John from IL  Send Email to John from IL     
David, I think we were running around 5600/5700 rpm. Water conditions that day were kinda' rough. I was busy driving & my passenger was watching the hand held gps.

-John

gss036 posted 09-09-2004 01:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for gss036  Send Email to gss036     
Just looking at the March issue of Popular Mechanics. They have just a teaser article under "Great Stuff". The only thing interesting were the prices, $17773-$20350 and UP. Weights of 519-530 pounds.
How did they gain so much weight?
They have to pricing the market in comparison with the Mercury Verados. I thought, just maybe the engines would have been in 14-15 K range to stay competitive with Suzuki & Yamaha 4 strokes.
FU2 posted 09-09-2004 02:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for FU2  Send Email to FU2     
A friend purchased a 90-HP [Bombardier Recreational Products E-TEC™] for his 17ft Montauk. Quiet as one could ever want. Smooth as can be. Shifted like butter. Held a plane at 3k RPM flat and the engine loved it. Very nice engine.
Can you tell that I liked it ?
Alex K posted 09-09-2004 02:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Alex K  Send Email to Alex K     
Does anybody have experience with 2-cylinder 60 HP E-TEC?
Alex
jimh posted 09-09-2004 08:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Administrative post]
jimh posted 09-09-2004 08:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have noticed that recently there has been an emphasis on the low noise level produced by the E-TEC engine. This seems like a new area of competitive marketing by engine makers. Quiet engines are apparently more attractive. I know that personally I am inclined to want a quiet engine in preference to a noisy one.

I am a bit surprised that Bombardier Recreational Products (BPR) have been able to make the E-TEC a "quiet" engine. The cowling is very light weight, has what seems like no sound absorbent material in it, and fits very closely to the engine block, leaving little room for air under the cowling. I don't recall any tests or measurements showing it to be especially quiet, but recent promotional material from BPR touts its low noise.

jimh posted 09-09-2004 09:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
On the EVINRUDE.COM website, after you sit through the long animated introduction, you can get to the section on the E-TEC. There you'll find a link to a subsection called CLEANER AND QUIETER. If you follow that link you'll get some verbiage about how low the emissions are, but nothing about the sound levels.

If you follow the SPECIFICATIONS link, you won't find anything about sound levels mentioned.

Recently there was a newspaper article that had the clear tone of a press-release hand out re-write, and it carried the headline:

Bombardier promises quieter outboard motors

See: http://www.jsonline.com/news/racine/aug04/250913.asp

The article mentions the low noise levels of the E-TEC, but really does not offer any measurement data or actual comparison data.

Is there any independent measurement of the noise levels of the E-TEC in comparison with other outboards? In particular, it would be interesting to see how they compared to recently designed four-stroke engines from Honda and Yamaha.

Peter posted 09-09-2004 09:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Yes, there was a recently reported independent test comparing the E-TEC 250 to the Yamaha 250 4-stroke. That independent test was published in the June or July 2004 issue of Powerboat Reports. While I don't recall the exact numeric sound pressure figures reported, the test indicated that the E-TEC was quieter at WOT but louder at idle.

The recent issue of Trailer Boats magazine also reports sound measurements at optimal cruise speed. The problem I find with the test results reported there is that the optimal cruise speed for each motor was different. I believe it would have been more meaningful to compare each of the engine's sound levels versus speed as Powerboat Reports did. In any case, Honda was the quietest from idle to WOT. No surprise there.


seahorse posted 09-10-2004 02:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     
The latest issue, Oct., of Bass and Walleye Boats tested the Evinrude E-TEC 225 HO. At idle, at the helm, was only 58.7 DBa, and 84.9 at cruise. Top speed sound at the helm including wind noise at 73.3 mph was 100.3 DBa.

This was the high performance bass boat motor and may not have had all the sound proofing that the regular 225 has.


I ran a regular E-TEC 225 recently on a 23' Hydra Sport Bay boat and could carry on a normal conversation at the stern, even at full speed. The motor did not sound loud at all. Most of the sounds were from the wind and the hull hitting the waves.

Hoosier posted 09-11-2004 06:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
Seahorse, sounds like ¥ou might have a channel into BRP. Any word on the mid range E-TECs? What they going to look like? Is there going to be a straight four to cover 115-130 hp?
seahorse posted 09-11-2004 06:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     
Bombardier is pretty close-mouthed about future items. I've heard all different stories about new motors. They do say the mid-range E-TECs will be available next summer.

They are pushing the big block engines, and larger (!) for now.

Peter posted 09-11-2004 07:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Big block and LARGER? What could be larger than the big blocks? Hmmmm....

Hoosier, the block on the E-TEC 200, 225 and 250 appear to be the same (same displacement) as on the prior generation FICHT/DI so it wouldn't surprise me if BRP followed the same path on the mid-range. It would make a lot of sense from a cost perspective to make a 4 cylinder 115 E-TEC in the same V4 format as the current DI 115 since they already have that tooling and know how to make V4 blocks. Thus, I'd place my bet on that configuration rather than a straight 4.

jimh posted 09-11-2004 09:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
You might also speculate that a 150-HP E-TEC would be based on the 60-degree, V-6, 2.6-liter block used in the current Evinrude 150-HP DFI and Johnson FastStrike (carburetor) engines.

I was at the Evinrude store recently and had the cowling off a 150-HP DFI. It looks like they just need to change the fuel injectors to their new voice-coil design from the E-TEC, and most other things would work nicely as they are now.

It is curious how the 150-HP engines seem to be the last ones off the designer's drawing board. Yamaha just got their 150-HP four-stroke into production, as did Honda. Mercury is still working on their new 150-HP model for the Verado engines. Apparently BPR will be a while before they have a 150-HP E-TEC in production, too.

jimh posted 09-11-2004 09:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Re the sound levels of the E-TEC: the current brochure from Evinrude shows their 225-HP E-TEC sound levels closely tracking those of a Yamaha 225-HP four-stroke. At mid-range cruise the motors are about identical in sound level. Evinrude asserts the sound quality of the E-TEC is more pleasant. This may be possible as the fundamental pitch of the two-stroke engine is higher than a four-stroke because the power stroke occurs with double the frequency.
Peter posted 09-11-2004 10:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
That has been my speculation -- same 2.6 L V6 block used for the current 135, 150 and 175 HP DI models will be used for the E-TEC line. All the tooling and know-how for making the mechanical components are already in house. It makes no sense to reinvent the basic platform configuration when it works quite well. While they are at it I suspect they will tidy things up like they did for the big block 225 E-TEC.

From a meeting regulatory requirements perspective, I don't see a rush to come out with the high end or midrange E-TEC. The current DI line meets all current emissions regulations. Any pressure to bring out the midrange E-TECs comes purely from 4-stroke competition. Since only the Japanese currently have a high midrange 4-stroke product, that competition has just been reduced somewhat by the tariff bond requirement. I suspect that the midrange E-TECs will be introduced about the same time that the domestically built, midrange Verado 4-strokes are introduced.

Although a bit fuzzy right now, when looking a little deeper into the crystal ball it still shows that given the excessive weight of the I6 Verado, BRP blows the dust off the old V8 tooling and starts cranking out a 4.4L V8 E-TEC weighing in at about 650 lbs producing 300+ HP running on regular 87 octane with a consumption rate in the neighborhood of about 30 GPH at WOT (about the same as the Verado 250 or Yamaha HPDI 300). That would be a good powerplant for those big and heavy 30+ foot express style boats such as the Grady 330 Express or the Pursuit 3370, and quite a good one for the Conquest 305. That certainly would fit my definition of "larger(!)".

Hoosier posted 09-11-2004 12:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
Peter's reasoning makes sense. Use the old design block and upgrade to E-TEC injectors and pistons. That's the part everyone has overlooked, the E-TECs use a new alloy for the pistons. It's NASA developed for high temperature operation. I'll bet the E-TECs cylinderheads run hotter than the conventional ones and that's a big part of the good pollution numbers. All that said, the low end E-TEC powerheads are a new design, so adding a fourth cylinder to extend the design up to, say 140, isn't unreasonable. I guess we'll know at the Miami Boat Show.
seahorse posted 09-12-2004 12:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     

Hey, Peter,

That crystal ball of yours is pretty accurate.

jimh posted 09-13-2004 02:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Deleted cut-and-paste from BPR/Evinrude website.]
FU2 posted 09-13-2004 03:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for FU2  Send Email to FU2     
My friend bought a new 90-HP Evinrude. The bottom piston went bye-bye. Had about 10-11 hours on it.
jimh posted 09-13-2004 09:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Why is it that it is always a "friend" who has the problem with an engine, and never the actual guy telling the story?

Also, after three unsuccessful tries, here is a link to an Evinrude web page that apparently is crucial to this discussion:

http://www.brp.com/en-CA/Innovation/Technology/Evinrude.E-TEC.htm

I deleted a cut-and-paste of this text, and two malformed hyperlinks attempting to link to it.

crabby posted 09-14-2004 03:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
I'm the friend that FU2 is referring to. I picked up my 1986 Montauk with the brand new 90-HP Evinrude E-TEC™ engine Friday before Labor day weekend. I had the dealer dial it in for sd100 [XD-100 ?] oil. The book says "no special break in required", so I just plain used it, never running at any one [engine speed] for too long. I am using a 17-inch pitch stainless steel propeller, and the motor is mounted two holes up from where the old 70 Evinrude was [?]. Trimmed out with a light load it tops out at about 41-MPH (using GPS) at 5500-RPM.

Saturday morning when I easily planed off leaving my canal, suddenly it sounded like it had picked up weeds. I brought [the speed down] down and cleared the prop; no weed, as I thought. I took off again, and a few moments later it felt like the hub on the prop spun: motor revved but no power (I was running at 4000-RPM). I came down off plane and it stalled out. I had to play with it to get it to re-start--never had to do that before. I noticed a pronounced ticking, almost a knock; I was on my way back home when I thought "if it's gonna have a problem, well, let's really shake it down" and hit the inlet (a 40 minute ride). But as it was outgoing tide and the ticking was now more pronounced, I chickened out and ran back home. It died on the way to the dealer.

The motor is a 2004 manufactured in January, 2004. I was gonna go for the 2005 but the dealer promised me they are identical, which I now understand is not entirely true. The computer showed 14 hours according to the dealer. The bottom line from my dealer this morning:

The rod bearing on the lower piston let loose. No signs of heat discoloration. Bombardier did not believe him and sent the service rep to the shop, and they are paying to have him ship it overnite back to the factory. Supposedly they are shipping over night a fresh powerhead to the dealer for me.

The motor ran like a champ, was quiet, and made the boat run entirely differently from the old 70, maybe mostly as a result of the high mounting.


BTW, my dealer has one of the new big block E-TEC motors getting rigged today for demonstration rides in Freeport, NY if anyone in the area is interested.

---crabby

jimh posted 09-14-2004 10:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It is always better to hear the story from the first hand source. Your E-TEC engine failure is probably the first to be mentioned anywhere, so I am sure the factory will be interested to see the engine and to analyze the cause of the problem. Please let us know how this situation is resolved, and if you hear of any results of the failure analysis, please let us know that, too.

It sounds like you will end up getting a 2005 model, anyways.

crabby posted 09-15-2004 09:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
Jim: Yup, will keep you all posted. And I think I will have them drop the motor to just one hole up from the bottom and see if the handling is not as light as two holes up made it.

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