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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
60 hp 4-stroke EFI
|Author||Topic: 60 hp 4-stroke EFI|
posted 09-11-2004 08:54 AM ET (US)
Does anybody have experience with the new yamaha 60 hp 4-stroke EFI on an older model (1988)MONTAUK?
posted 09-11-2004 03:13 PM ET (US)
See also the 60 Mercury EFI. Its the same engine !!!!
posted 09-12-2004 08:22 AM ET (US)
hank, I don't know anyone with a gray 60EFI but know 4 guys with the Mercury 60EFI and all LOVE the engine. One is a commercial crabber, Floyd Metts, and he runs all day every other day and has well over a year of flawless/economical performance. If I repower my 15 CC or Montauk it will be with a std. foot 60EFI Merc! happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
PS>on a Montauk expect about 30-35mph max speed. Others on this site have that set-up and can offer opinion. My Montauk performs to my satisfaction with a 2004 Merc 60 2 stroke...
posted 09-12-2004 09:52 PM ET (US)
I am running a 60 Mercury EFI on my Sport 150 and love it! The engine is quiet, smooth running and economical. I think it's one of the best engines on the market in this power range.
posted 09-13-2004 11:39 PM ET (US)
I have a grey 60 EFI. It hits the water this week. HIgh sierra
posted 09-20-2004 10:54 PM ET (US)
A quiet grey dog!
posted 09-29-2004 11:02 PM ET (US)
Ive had this 2005 60 Yamaha 4 stroke out 4 times. It's not a patch on the 40 Johnson 2 stroke I sold. These Yamaha motors are the most overrated, underpowered, gutless, no low to mid range motors I've ever owned.They should be rated at 35 to 40 horses. The critics were right. The four strokes are not the solution. high sierra
posted 09-30-2004 12:12 AM ET (US)
Before stomping all over Yamaha and 4 strokes in general, start looking at your prop choice. Engine choice is only the start.
I spent part of today out testing a 4 blade vs the original 3 blade on my Montauk's 50 Yamaha 4 stroke (same pitch, nearly same diameter). The difference in low to mid range was large, with almost the same high end. At lower rpm. And it could plane over a wider rpm range. At the low end control was much better, as was speed.
Of course if you want to troll, the lowest speed I could get out of the 4 blade was still over 3mph at idle. For a slower trolling speed have to drag something. The 3 blade will get down to 2.4mph. However, the engine needs it's idle set, it's about 200 rpm low right now.
We tested the 3 blade 2nd, and after that could not stand it compared the the 4. I stood around in the water one more time changing back to the 4 and we enjoyed the rest of our outing, testing our new extra large 4 bow bimini and just cruising. A lot of shade. And a big airfoil providing lift at speed. Or so it seemed.
Finished with a 15mile long run into chop with a 15mph headwind under dark clouds. The bimini up, 4000rpm, 20mph out of the 50. A bumpy, but dry ride under those conditions. Not all straight, the big lake was full of floating wood as it's high from the hurricane rain. (had I been using the 3 blade I would have been dropping off plane at that rpm, maybe 12 mph, but probably less due to the headwind and bimini) Sharp turns at speed the bimini did not have enough lift or pull to be a problem.
I expect when I get the numerous layers of cratered bottom paint off that speed will be a little better. That paint is really rough, lots of drag.
Top speed for the day, with bimini, 28mph. The boat has been reported by the previous owner to do better than 30 with two people in ideal conditions. (and with the 3 blade) For our style of boating the 3 is religated to spare. Nice, undamaged prop, just not right for us. Only change I'd like to try yet is maybe a stainless 4 blade, if I can find one the right size.
BTW, I also own a 22' pontoon boat. Honda 4-stroke 50. Put a 4 blade on that too with equivalent results.
posted 09-30-2004 12:44 AM ET (US)
I have tried 4 props starting with a 10 x15 Yamaha prop. wouldn't plane the boat. (I'm running at 4500 to 6500 feet). The second prop was a 12 x 9. Great hole shot, up against the rev limiter. 22 mph max/ Third was the first prop repitched to 10 x 13. Better but a slug off the line until it got wound up. 30mph leaning into the wind. Would only achieve 5100 rpm. Third was a 11x11. This prop was bad off the line and would only hit 4100 rpm. I'm going to try the 12x9 with an increase of 1 or 2 inches in pitch and heavy cupping next. These motors have no low end and at speed due to lack of torque, will fall off plane if pushed hard in a turn. This is all for $6000. If I had known how bad these motors are at high altitude , I would have kept the 40 Johnson 2 stroke which went like a striped ape. With this amont of money in a motor, I am stuck with it and hope to find a solution. Other buyers beware.
posted 09-30-2004 01:25 AM ET (US)
4th was the 11x11. Losing track, and I'm tired.
posted 09-30-2004 02:08 AM ET (US)
On my 50 Yamaha, the 3 blade is a 10 3/8 x 13, the new 4 blade is a 10.5 x 13. WOT is 5600 with the 3 blade, 5200 with the 4 blade. As I noted about 28mph tops, and that's dragging a parachute (the bimini) and a sea anchor (the cratered bottom paint). With the 3 blade it takes less than 10 seconds out of the hole. With the 4 blade it's less than 6 seconds. I'd not call the 50 I have low torque, anywhere in it's rpm range. Granted that's at just under 1000'.
You have 10 more (rated) horsepower. And are telling me you can't do near as well as my 50. I don't think near all of it can be blamed on altitude, if any of it is altitude. I don't doubt that altitude can change performance, but you are describing less than half the rated horsepower or so.
I once tested a set of twin 35's on a small research boat. Could not get this 15' boat to plane, not close. Turned out the linkage on the carbs was all assembled wrong. We were testing at 5000', thought that was it. Take it in and tell them to find the problem. Be sure they know the operating altitude. With some motors setup is different depending on altitude, don't know on that one.
I'd kind of expect that with 60 hp the 10 x 15 would be close and not stray more than a inch or two from that pitch. That 12 x 9 would be sort of what I'd think of for a pontoon boat, though a 10 pitch might be closer for that. And that it would get well under 20 mph with that prop and motor on a pontoon. A 4-stroke has a different torque curve than a 2-stroke, but it does not even sound like you are getting consistent power output. A 10 x 13 gets 5100 rpm, but a 11 x 11 only gets 4100? Something is way wrong if you can get the power to turn the 10 x 13 5100, the 11 x 11 should turn several hundred faster than that with the same power. And I don't think it's general motor design, something specific to that particular individual motor is not set up right or broken. That's what warranties are for.
posted 09-30-2004 11:06 AM ET (US)
I am running the smallfoot merc60 hp EFI on a 1978 15ft striper hull, it sounds like there may be something wrong in your setup if you have a classic 15ft hull and are not getting better performance. I run 10x14 SS prop, 6100 rpm 42.7mph GPS with 12 gallons and bimini top down. I used to have a 4 cylinder merc 40hp and the new motor has got MUCH more power.
Check the mounting height of that engine
posted 09-30-2004 12:04 PM ET (US)
Thanks guys for the input. I 'm not happy with this rig at all so far. The dealer here in Reno doesn't even carry oil or filters. Yamaha should be on their butt. The dealer I bought from is in Georgia. I haven't resorted to him yet again as he sent the prop for a 2 stroke, no wiring harness for the tach and doesn't know anything about altitude. He's too busy with keeping the roof on presently but otherwise has been very good about my questions.I'll take another look at the linkeage situation as that's a possibility. I'm not new to outboards, 55 years of boating and working on motors but these bigger 4 strokes are a new thing to me at this altitude. I have had 3 other smaller Honda's and they all were gutless at this altitude. I did figure how to get around that with carb engines. These fuel injected engines present new problems. Will keep you advised and thanks for the encouragement. The boat is a classic 15.4 A question for a wrench? Is the linkeage set for breakin and has to be adjusted after the ten hours to get full throttle.? Jim
posted 09-30-2004 01:20 PM ET (US)
Life is full of choices. It looks like you made a poor one.
posted 09-30-2004 01:37 PM ET (US)
Electronic fuel injection is controlled by a computer program in every time I've met it. Check with Yamaha if there is a program difference or reprogramming for altitude. Especially seeing as you got the motor from Georgia. It may just be that it's set up for sea level. Though the erratic power output you report seems like more might be wrong.
I'd get the engine running properly before messing more with props. The prop you started with was probably right or close.
posted 09-30-2004 08:59 PM ET (US)
Further update: Linkeage is set right. Air valve in throttle body is dead on at full throttle. Plugs are burning good. Motor is adjusted to be 3 inches higher than transom. Antiventilation plate just higher than hull bottom. Motor has 5 and half inch setback. Checked with past dealer (doesn't have dealership any longer) and found they had the same problem getting prop set right for such varying altitudes. I'm working with local prop shop on problem. Problem will be solved come hell or high water. Thanks for the help on this. Have not checked on computer program yet. High Sierra
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