Outrage 23', 2000, Optimax 225, expected speed/prop.

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Author Topic:   Outrage 23', 2000, Optimax 225, expected speed/prop.

jonboston posted 09-11-2004 09:59 PM ET (US)
I have a OR 23, Optimax 225 engine, This is a new boat for me. It seems to be going slower than I would have though from the things I have read.
Running at 5000 RPM it runs at about 29 Knots.
Can anyone help me understand if this is right or do I have a wrong Prop pitch?
(( I will look for the prop size and pitch tomorrow, I looked quickly and thought I saw the marking 13P ))
Thanks,
Jon

jimh posted 09-12-2004 10:09 AM ET (US)
Assessment of propeller performance requires a table of engine speeds versus boat speeds. Give engine speed in RPM and boat speed in MPH. (Statute MPH seems to be the most common reference with small power boats, not nautical miles per hour.)
Provide the current propeller model, diameter, and pitch.
Performance prediction is based on weight, horsepower, and hull factor. What is your total hull weight, including all gear, fuel, motor, etc.?
jonboston posted 09-12-2004 10:42 PM ET (US)
I guess my questions is: What propellers come standard on 23' Outrages with Mercury 225 Optimax engines?
My new used boat has a 13" pitch prop on it and it's slow. I just assumed the prop that was on it was the 'right' one, and looking up examples of tests, etc 13" seems out to lunch. I walked around the marina and looked at other whalers and they seemed to have 17" or 19" props (Dauntless, outrage).
When I plug in a 17" pitch prop into the PROP CALCULATOR it gives better results. I was just looking for some practical guidance on what is the largest pitch that works for someone with this boat/ motor..
Thanks,
Jon
jonboston posted 09-12-2004 10:42 PM ET (US)
I guess my questions is: What propellers come standard on 23' Outrages with Mercury 225 Optimax engines?
My new used boat has a 13" pitch prop on it and it's slow. I just assumed the prop that was on it was the 'right' one, and looking up examples of tests, etc 13" seems out to lunch. I walked around the marina and looked at other whalers and they seemed to have 17" or 19" props (Dauntless, outrage).
When I plug in a 17" pitch prop into the PROP CALCULATOR it gives better results. I was just looking for some practical guidance on what is the largest pitch that works for someone with this boat/ motor..
Thanks,
Jon
jimh posted 09-12-2004 11:09 PM ET (US)
A 13-inch pitch propeller on a 225-HP engine does seem impossibly small. Are you certain it really is a 13-inch pitch propeller? They hardly make any propellers that would fit a 225-HP engine with a pitch that small.
aquaman posted 09-13-2004 12:42 AM ET (US)
Jon,
I think you should be turning a 17 or 19 pitch with that combo. The prop design will also determine pitch. I have a 1994 24 Outrage with a 250 Yamaha. I turn a 17 pitch Yamaha SWS and the boats runs 46mph at 5600 rpm. I don't think your boat is alot different then mine.
Good Luck,
John
jimp posted 09-13-2004 03:50 PM ET (US)
jonboston -
I'm running a 2003 225 Merc Optimax on my 1990 Revenge 22 W/T. I'm using a 17" Revolution-4 4-bladed stainless prop and topping at 41.5 knots GPS (47.7 mph), two people, 3/4 fuel.
I've heard that another good prop is the Mirage Plus in eith 17 or 19".
JimP
Peter posted 09-13-2004 04:02 PM ET (US)
I would start with a 17P Mirage Plus and see where your tachometer digits or needle falls at WOT as you are normally loaded with people and gear, and a full tank of fuel. If RPM is 5400 or below, go down to a 15P Mirage Plus. If RPM are 5800 or above (I doubt it will be), try either a 19P Mirage Plus or a 17P Revolution 4.
I am wondering why the previous owner put a 13P propeller on? Is the engine OK?
jonboston posted 09-14-2004 08:12 AM ET (US)
I'm new to understanding props... Reading all the notes the boat only seems to go to 5500 RPM with a 13P prop on it. I was just thinking it had the wrong prop, now I'm worried something may be wrong.
The engine seems to burn too much oil also, seemed like 2x the oil. It was alleged to be 50 hours when I bought it but don't know for sure. It was sitting in a boat yard for 2 years since the woman who ended up with the boat couldn't go on the water.
I've ordered a 17P prop to test on the engine. I'm assuming if there is something wrong with the engine it will not be able to push the boat well with the 17P prop.
The motor sounds ok when it runs. What kinds of problems could reduce the power?
Thanks,
Jon
macfam posted 09-14-2004 08:41 AM ET (US)
jonboston,
Several variable factors come into play:
1. The correct prop size (your're working on that one)
2. The trim angle of the motor. Generally speaking, trimming the lower gear case "in" lowers the bow and reduces speed and rpm's.
Trimming the lower gear case "out" raises the bow and increases speed and rpm's.
If you trim "out" too far, your prop will begin to ventilate with air, and your rpm's will over rev, so do this gradually while keeping an eye on the tachometer.
3. The height of the engine on the transom.
This has been discussed many times on the forum, and you can do a search for added info.
On every motor above the prop is a horizontal "plate" known as the anti-cavitation, or more accuratly the anti-ventilation plate. If your motor is mounted properly, that plate should be slightly above (an inch or inch and a half)the keel of the boat (the lowest part ofthe V-bottom).
At the very least, it should be even with the keel.
If you find that the anti-ventilation plate is below the keel, there would an excessive drag, and lower rpm's and speed.
When the boat is out of the water, check the height.
With the engine down in the running position, you can use a straight-edge, a few feet long.
Hold it fast against the bottom of the boat, and slide it out toward your anti-ventilation plate.
The anti-cavitation should be above the top edge of the straight-edge.
If it's below, you may want your dealer to raise the engine up a hole or two to mout it properly.
Where in greater Boston are you using your boat?
bbrunner posted 09-14-2004 09:07 AM ET (US)
I just repropped my Optimax 225 on my 23 Conquest with a 15p Mirage prop. I max out at around 5300 RPMs and 42 mph. The part I like about this setup is that I can cruise on plane from 3000 RPMs. I needed much more when I had my 17p Vensura Offshore on it.
jonboston posted 09-14-2004 09:31 AM ET (US)
I run the boat on Boston Harbor out of Quincy. UPS just delivered my new 17P prop.
I will check the trim angle of the motor and install the prop and see if it works tomorrow.
Thanks for all the insight. I will report my results.
Jon
Fishcop posted 09-14-2004 02:46 PM ET (US)
Jon,
I have a 225 Optimax on my 25' Outrage (1987) and it turns a 15p Mirage Plus up to 5500/5600 rpms (42mph). I found that with the high HP and RPM'S, the 15p is the best for my application. My boat is similar in weight to yours and the 13p you have is not correct.
Let us know how the 17p works, but I am guessing that a 15p Mirage Plus will push your boat at 41 or 42mph WOT.
Andy
jonboston posted 09-15-2004 07:35 PM ET (US)
I changed the prop and things improved.. WOT was 5300 RRM and the top speed went up to 39 MPH. The engine sounds better too. I had to tilt the engine up a bit to trim it out and get the top speed.
Reading the notes I wish I had of got a Mercury Mirage plus prop for the extra $200..
I bought the following:
Solas Titan 3 Blade Propeller
Right rotation, 15.25" diameter, 17" pitch

So the prop does make a big difference.
Thanks
Jon

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Author	Topic: Outrage 23', 2000, Optimax 225, expected speed/prop.
jonboston	posted 09-11-2004 09:59 PM ET (US) I have a OR 23, Optimax 225 engine, This is a new boat for me. It seems to be going slower than I would have though from the things I have read. Running at 5000 RPM it runs at about 29 Knots. Can anyone help me understand if this is right or do I have a wrong Prop pitch? (( I will look for the prop size and pitch tomorrow, I looked quickly and thought I saw the marking 13P )) Thanks, Jon
jimh	posted 09-12-2004 10:09 AM ET (US) Assessment of propeller performance requires a table of engine speeds versus boat speeds. Give engine speed in RPM and boat speed in MPH. (Statute MPH seems to be the most common reference with small power boats, not nautical miles per hour.) Provide the current propeller model, diameter, and pitch. Performance prediction is based on weight, horsepower, and hull factor. What is your total hull weight, including all gear, fuel, motor, etc.?
jonboston	posted 09-12-2004 10:42 PM ET (US) I guess my questions is: What propellers come standard on 23' Outrages with Mercury 225 Optimax engines? My new used boat has a 13" pitch prop on it and it's slow. I just assumed the prop that was on it was the 'right' one, and looking up examples of tests, etc 13" seems out to lunch. I walked around the marina and looked at other whalers and they seemed to have 17" or 19" props (Dauntless, outrage). When I plug in a 17" pitch prop into the PROP CALCULATOR it gives better results. I was just looking for some practical guidance on what is the largest pitch that works for someone with this boat/ motor.. Thanks, Jon
jonboston	posted 09-12-2004 10:42 PM ET (US) I guess my questions is: What propellers come standard on 23' Outrages with Mercury 225 Optimax engines? My new used boat has a 13" pitch prop on it and it's slow. I just assumed the prop that was on it was the 'right' one, and looking up examples of tests, etc 13" seems out to lunch. I walked around the marina and looked at other whalers and they seemed to have 17" or 19" props (Dauntless, outrage). When I plug in a 17" pitch prop into the PROP CALCULATOR it gives better results. I was just looking for some practical guidance on what is the largest pitch that works for someone with this boat/ motor.. Thanks, Jon
jimh	posted 09-12-2004 11:09 PM ET (US) A 13-inch pitch propeller on a 225-HP engine does seem impossibly small. Are you certain it really is a 13-inch pitch propeller? They hardly make any propellers that would fit a 225-HP engine with a pitch that small.
aquaman	posted 09-13-2004 12:42 AM ET (US) Jon, I think you should be turning a 17 or 19 pitch with that combo. The prop design will also determine pitch. I have a 1994 24 Outrage with a 250 Yamaha. I turn a 17 pitch Yamaha SWS and the boats runs 46mph at 5600 rpm. I don't think your boat is alot different then mine. Good Luck, John
jimp	posted 09-13-2004 03:50 PM ET (US) jonboston - I'm running a 2003 225 Merc Optimax on my 1990 Revenge 22 W/T. I'm using a 17" Revolution-4 4-bladed stainless prop and topping at 41.5 knots GPS (47.7 mph), two people, 3/4 fuel. I've heard that another good prop is the Mirage Plus in eith 17 or 19". JimP
Peter	posted 09-13-2004 04:02 PM ET (US) I would start with a 17P Mirage Plus and see where your tachometer digits or needle falls at WOT as you are normally loaded with people and gear, and a full tank of fuel. If RPM is 5400 or below, go down to a 15P Mirage Plus. If RPM are 5800 or above (I doubt it will be), try either a 19P Mirage Plus or a 17P Revolution 4. I am wondering why the previous owner put a 13P propeller on? Is the engine OK?
jonboston	posted 09-14-2004 08:12 AM ET (US) I'm new to understanding props... Reading all the notes the boat only seems to go to 5500 RPM with a 13P prop on it. I was just thinking it had the wrong prop, now I'm worried something may be wrong. The engine seems to burn too much oil also, seemed like 2x the oil. It was alleged to be 50 hours when I bought it but don't know for sure. It was sitting in a boat yard for 2 years since the woman who ended up with the boat couldn't go on the water. I've ordered a 17P prop to test on the engine. I'm assuming if there is something wrong with the engine it will not be able to push the boat well with the 17P prop. The motor sounds ok when it runs. What kinds of problems could reduce the power? Thanks, Jon
macfam	posted 09-14-2004 08:41 AM ET (US) jonboston, Several variable factors come into play: 1. The correct prop size (your're working on that one) 2. The trim angle of the motor. Generally speaking, trimming the lower gear case "in" lowers the bow and reduces speed and rpm's. Trimming the lower gear case "out" raises the bow and increases speed and rpm's. If you trim "out" too far, your prop will begin to ventilate with air, and your rpm's will over rev, so do this gradually while keeping an eye on the tachometer. 3. The height of the engine on the transom. This has been discussed many times on the forum, and you can do a search for added info. On every motor above the prop is a horizontal "plate" known as the anti-cavitation, or more accuratly the anti-ventilation plate. If your motor is mounted properly, that plate should be slightly above (an inch or inch and a half)the keel of the boat (the lowest part ofthe V-bottom). At the very least, it should be even with the keel. If you find that the anti-ventilation plate is below the keel, there would an excessive drag, and lower rpm's and speed. When the boat is out of the water, check the height. With the engine down in the running position, you can use a straight-edge, a few feet long. Hold it fast against the bottom of the boat, and slide it out toward your anti-ventilation plate. The anti-cavitation should be above the top edge of the straight-edge. If it's below, you may want your dealer to raise the engine up a hole or two to mout it properly. Where in greater Boston are you using your boat?
bbrunner	posted 09-14-2004 09:07 AM ET (US) I just repropped my Optimax 225 on my 23 Conquest with a 15p Mirage prop. I max out at around 5300 RPMs and 42 mph. The part I like about this setup is that I can cruise on plane from 3000 RPMs. I needed much more when I had my 17p Vensura Offshore on it.
jonboston	posted 09-14-2004 09:31 AM ET (US) I run the boat on Boston Harbor out of Quincy. UPS just delivered my new 17P prop. I will check the trim angle of the motor and install the prop and see if it works tomorrow. Thanks for all the insight. I will report my results. Jon
Fishcop	posted 09-14-2004 02:46 PM ET (US) Jon, I have a 225 Optimax on my 25' Outrage (1987) and it turns a 15p Mirage Plus up to 5500/5600 rpms (42mph). I found that with the high HP and RPM'S, the 15p is the best for my application. My boat is similar in weight to yours and the 13p you have is not correct. Let us know how the 17p works, but I am guessing that a 15p Mirage Plus will push your boat at 41 or 42mph WOT. Andy
jonboston	posted 09-15-2004 07:35 PM ET (US) I changed the prop and things improved.. WOT was 5300 RRM and the top speed went up to 39 MPH. The engine sounds better too. I had to tilt the engine up a bit to trim it out and get the top speed. Reading the notes I wish I had of got a Mercury Mirage plus prop for the extra $200.. I bought the following: Solas Titan 3 Blade Propeller Right rotation, 15.25" diameter, 17" pitch So the prop does make a big difference. Thanks Jon