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Author Topic:   JUSTICE 21 and Twin Engines

ihookem posted 09-30-2004 12:58 AM ET (US)

I was interested in buying a Brunswick CGP Justice 21 just because I am partial to the older style Whaler hulls. The Whaler salesman recommended two 135-HP Mercury Optimax motors for the boat. These motors weigh around 850-lbs., which is 150-lbs. over the rating for the boat.
I am looking for responses from people that own or have been in an OUTRAGE 21 or OUTRAGE 22 that have twin outboards on the back. What size are the motors? How does the boat run? What is the weight of the motors? How does the boat ride? What is the boat speed? Please list the boat size and any thoughts you may have.
jimh posted 09-30-2004 06:25 AM ET (US)
The 21 JUSTICE is not based on the classic OUTRAGE 22 hull.
ihookem posted 09-30-2004 09:28 AM ET (US)
Jim
would you say the Justice is closer to the older style hulls or that the new whaler 2004 model is closer. Also all the new models in the 21- and 22-foot boats are made for only one motor or so i was told. I am interested in two motors. I am looking for the older style hull because the new boats have a V shaped hull and I am worried about them tracking on a following sea. The Brunswick boats will still take two motors
tony
Buckda posted 09-30-2004 09:44 AM ET (US)
The 21 Justice is a newer, Accutrak hull. If you want a classic, get the 22 Guardian.
The boat performs well with a single 250 HP (my experience with this hull) but should run very well with twin 135's.
Don't worry too much about weight. They can handle quite a bit of weight back there...for instance:
The 19 Guardian is rated for 430 lbs motor weight.....but I know of one with more than 600 pounds of motors on twin setback brackets...it handles the extra weight fine.
Regards,
Dave
TexasWhaler posted 09-30-2004 10:07 AM ET (US)
One thing that always amazes me is the higher horsepower ratings of the 25-foot and under Accutrack hulls compared to the 25-foot and under classic hulls.
owen posted 09-30-2004 10:28 AM ET (US)
I owned a 1996 Outrage 21 with twin Yamaha 130-HP two-strokes for three years. Don't know the engine weight.
The boat was fantastic, ran WOT at just under 50-MPH, very stable in a big sea, and fast to plane. I sold it to a friend and when I am in Donegal I still get to go out on it. Lots of bluefin Tuna being caught off the coast of Ireland in the last few years (that global warming works for me), so the Outrage is fun to use for that.
I miss it, should have kept it, but moved up to a new Conquest 255 with twin Yamaha 200 4 strokes. Still should have kept the Outrage, but might have had to trade the wife if I kept two boats.
LHG posted 09-30-2004 05:25 PM ET (US)
Unless you're hung up on 3-Star technology, I'd get a pair of the lighter weight, more powerful and quieter running Merc 150 EFI's. The boat is rated for 300 HP.
rtk posted 09-30-2004 06:59 PM ET (US)
I have a 1997 21 Outrage, same hull as the current Justice. It has a single 250. I had considered twins when I repowered this spring.
Mine is the twenty-five inch transom (notched). Can twins be installed on this transom without some type of modification? It looks as though the notch would have to be "filled" or the transom notch extended, the notch is not very wide.
Is the new 21 Justice you are considering a thirty inch transom?
Twin 150 EFIs would be sweet : )
Rich
ihookem posted 09-30-2004 10:36 PM ET (US)
Rich
The 21 Justice has a 25-inch transom. It seems to beat the standard 21 Outrage in all the categories (capacity, fuel, swamped weight, etc.). I don't know how reliable those ratings are but I believe it can handle twins.
Tony
rtk posted 09-30-2004 11:18 PM ET (US)
Capacities are basically the same as my boat, looking at the commercial site. I have no doubt that the boat can handle twins with the 300-HP rating and the way the boat sits in the water with my single 500-lb. motor.
My understanding is the Justice and the other commercial versions [have heavier fiberglass] layup of the hull. The in-deck fish boxes are different, allowing a wider base leaning post, I like that.
It is a great boat, a twin set up would be great. I'd like to see how they are mounted.
I have not done a great deal of research, but I think the standard hull served as the 21 Outrage for model years 1994/1995-1997/1998. The current 21 Justice is the same hull.
I have owned the boat for close to a year, and I am very pleased with it. I was out this past weekend in some pretty good seas in the ocean and it performed great. Every time I head out I gain more confidence in the boat.
Good luck with it, if you do choose the 21 Justice with twins you will have a hell of a boat.
Rich
Louie Kokinis posted 10-01-2004 03:16 AM ET (US)
I would strongly recommend you give overpowering and/or putting excess weight on the transom some thought before you do it. Whaler WILL NOT warrantee the hull if you exceed the boats transom power or weight ratings.

Louie
jimh posted 10-01-2004 08:27 AM ET (US)
Since it was the salesman who recommended twin 135-HP engines, I would question him about the implications of their weight on the warranty. And get it in writing!
FU2 posted 10-01-2004 09:32 AM ET (US)
Something else to consider. If you over power or overweigh any hull. There are alot of legal issues that will surface if some sort of accident should happen.
matawan posted 10-01-2004 12:33 PM ET (US)
I have a Justice 21 with twin 135 opti's the boat came from the factory rigged with these engines and sea tested by the factory. I do think that this is the extreme of the weight range on the transom and am glad I got the trim tabs.
ihookem posted 10-02-2004 07:48 AM ET (US)
Matawan
I am very interested in talking to you about your boat as for that is exactly what I am looking for . If it is O.K. please email your phone number or correct email address. My email ihookem@hotmail.com. and phone is 916-870-2670.
Thanks Tony
matawan posted 10-02-2004 10:25 AM ET (US)
Sending you my email, I would be happy to answer any questions you have

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Author	Topic: JUSTICE 21 and Twin Engines
ihookem	posted 09-30-2004 12:58 AM ET (US) I was interested in buying a Brunswick CGP Justice 21 just because I am partial to the older style Whaler hulls. The Whaler salesman recommended two 135-HP Mercury Optimax motors for the boat. These motors weigh around 850-lbs., which is 150-lbs. over the rating for the boat. I am looking for responses from people that own or have been in an OUTRAGE 21 or OUTRAGE 22 that have twin outboards on the back. What size are the motors? How does the boat run? What is the weight of the motors? How does the boat ride? What is the boat speed? Please list the boat size and any thoughts you may have.
jimh	posted 09-30-2004 06:25 AM ET (US) The 21 JUSTICE is not based on the classic OUTRAGE 22 hull.
ihookem	posted 09-30-2004 09:28 AM ET (US) Jim would you say the Justice is closer to the older style hulls or that the new whaler 2004 model is closer. Also all the new models in the 21- and 22-foot boats are made for only one motor or so i was told. I am interested in two motors. I am looking for the older style hull because the new boats have a V shaped hull and I am worried about them tracking on a following sea. The Brunswick boats will still take two motors tony
Buckda	posted 09-30-2004 09:44 AM ET (US) The 21 Justice is a newer, Accutrak hull. If you want a classic, get the 22 Guardian. The boat performs well with a single 250 HP (my experience with this hull) but should run very well with twin 135's. Don't worry too much about weight. They can handle quite a bit of weight back there...for instance: The 19 Guardian is rated for 430 lbs motor weight.....but I know of one with more than 600 pounds of motors on twin setback brackets...it handles the extra weight fine. Regards, Dave
TexasWhaler	posted 09-30-2004 10:07 AM ET (US) One thing that always amazes me is the higher horsepower ratings of the 25-foot and under Accutrack hulls compared to the 25-foot and under classic hulls.
owen	posted 09-30-2004 10:28 AM ET (US) I owned a 1996 Outrage 21 with twin Yamaha 130-HP two-strokes for three years. Don't know the engine weight. The boat was fantastic, ran WOT at just under 50-MPH, very stable in a big sea, and fast to plane. I sold it to a friend and when I am in Donegal I still get to go out on it. Lots of bluefin Tuna being caught off the coast of Ireland in the last few years (that global warming works for me), so the Outrage is fun to use for that. I miss it, should have kept it, but moved up to a new Conquest 255 with twin Yamaha 200 4 strokes. Still should have kept the Outrage, but might have had to trade the wife if I kept two boats.
LHG	posted 09-30-2004 05:25 PM ET (US) Unless you're hung up on 3-Star technology, I'd get a pair of the lighter weight, more powerful and quieter running Merc 150 EFI's. The boat is rated for 300 HP.
rtk	posted 09-30-2004 06:59 PM ET (US) I have a 1997 21 Outrage, same hull as the current Justice. It has a single 250. I had considered twins when I repowered this spring. Mine is the twenty-five inch transom (notched). Can twins be installed on this transom without some type of modification? It looks as though the notch would have to be "filled" or the transom notch extended, the notch is not very wide. Is the new 21 Justice you are considering a thirty inch transom? Twin 150 EFIs would be sweet : ) Rich
ihookem	posted 09-30-2004 10:36 PM ET (US) Rich The 21 Justice has a 25-inch transom. It seems to beat the standard 21 Outrage in all the categories (capacity, fuel, swamped weight, etc.). I don't know how reliable those ratings are but I believe it can handle twins. Tony
rtk	posted 09-30-2004 11:18 PM ET (US) Capacities are basically the same as my boat, looking at the commercial site. I have no doubt that the boat can handle twins with the 300-HP rating and the way the boat sits in the water with my single 500-lb. motor. My understanding is the Justice and the other commercial versions [have heavier fiberglass] layup of the hull. The in-deck fish boxes are different, allowing a wider base leaning post, I like that. It is a great boat, a twin set up would be great. I'd like to see how they are mounted. I have not done a great deal of research, but I think the standard hull served as the 21 Outrage for model years 1994/1995-1997/1998. The current 21 Justice is the same hull. I have owned the boat for close to a year, and I am very pleased with it. I was out this past weekend in some pretty good seas in the ocean and it performed great. Every time I head out I gain more confidence in the boat. Good luck with it, if you do choose the 21 Justice with twins you will have a hell of a boat. Rich
Louie Kokinis	posted 10-01-2004 03:16 AM ET (US) I would strongly recommend you give overpowering and/or putting excess weight on the transom some thought before you do it. Whaler WILL NOT warrantee the hull if you exceed the boats transom power or weight ratings. Louie
jimh	posted 10-01-2004 08:27 AM ET (US) Since it was the salesman who recommended twin 135-HP engines, I would question him about the implications of their weight on the warranty. And get it in writing!
FU2	posted 10-01-2004 09:32 AM ET (US) Something else to consider. If you over power or overweigh any hull. There are alot of legal issues that will surface if some sort of accident should happen.
matawan	posted 10-01-2004 12:33 PM ET (US) I have a Justice 21 with twin 135 opti's the boat came from the factory rigged with these engines and sea tested by the factory. I do think that this is the extreme of the weight range on the transom and am glad I got the trim tabs.
ihookem	posted 10-02-2004 07:48 AM ET (US) Matawan I am very interested in talking to you about your boat as for that is exactly what I am looking for . If it is O.K. please email your phone number or correct email address. My email ihookem@hotmail.com. and phone is 916-870-2670. Thanks Tony
matawan	posted 10-02-2004 10:25 AM ET (US) Sending you my email, I would be happy to answer any questions you have