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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance Performance: 25-foot Hull with Single 200-300 HP
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Author | Topic: Performance: 25-foot Hull with Single 200-300 HP |
doobee |
posted 10-15-2004 12:49 PM ET (US)
I know there are a lot of variables involved, but I'd like to hear from anybody with first hand experience with a 25-foot Boston Whaler powered with a single outboard, 200-HP to 300-HP. I'm most interested in REVENGE 25 with a standard transom, but I'd also be interested in the performance of other 25-foot models. Please let me know any specific you have such as what engine, propeller, RPM, speed, and GPH. |
macfam |
posted 10-15-2004 10:08 PM ET (US)
doobee, Here's some first hand stuff: 1988 Revenge Walk-thru, standard transom, w/ 1999 250 hp Yamaha OX66, turning a 19" ss prop, just across the bay in Falmouth. Boat dry = 4000lbs. With fuel, gear, 2-3 people etc. estimated 6000 lb. 3700 rpm = 22-23 mph 4000 rpm = 28-29 mph 5300 rpm = 41-42 mph (top speed) Benefits from trim tabs in "Buzzards Bay Crap" Handles well in everything. Pulls skiiers with ease. I estimate that at "cruise" (3700-3900) rpm to be 12-13 gal per hour. |
doobee |
posted 10-16-2004 02:55 PM ET (US)
Thanks Mac! I look forward to meeting you. There was another thread on a similar topic, but I can't seem to find it. There was some mention of mounting the engine 3 holes up. Where is yours? |
macfam |
posted 10-18-2004 11:50 AM ET (US)
My engine is mounted on the second hole. I looked at this last spring, and was tempted to raise it up just one hole. I would say that mounted "as is" the anti-ventilation plate is even with the keel, and possibly just a shade below it. Ideally, that plate should be just above the keel. perhaps a half inch to an inch and a half. But, for a single engine, 25' 6000 lb rig, it runs very well. I'm reluctant to touch it. The prop always bites, never breaks free in the roughest water....and God knows we have rough water, and when trimmed out, it just raises that plate enough so I'm getting 5300-5400 rpm with a 19" pitch. I don't need to go any faster....there's never enough smooth water anyway. Unfortunately, she came out of the water on Saturday for the layover. This is the earliest ever. I usually stay in until November some time. Just too many things on my "honey do" list, so I just gotta do, what I gotta do. But the 13' is still in and will remain in until Thanksgiving or beyond. Went scalloping in Waquoit Bay on Sunday in 30mph SW winds.....whoa.....that was an experience. |
c_mccann |
posted 10-22-2004 02:35 PM ET (US)
I have a '83 Revenge with a Pipewelders tower with controls and have removed the windshield, and have a full Stainless marine bracket. It is powered with a Honda 225 single. I am still trying out props, but I get about 24kts at 3500Rpm, and top end is 31kts. My boat has a lot of wind drag due to the tower, but as near as I can tell, 22kts is the sweet spot for my setup, no pounding in the west coast chop and the motor purrs along. It was powered previously by a Merc 250 EFI and got the exact same performance, though my fuel consumption is less- approx. 3mpg- again, I am still experimenting with props. My setup requires trim tabs, and they really improve my hole shot. I had a tough time with the motor height on the bracket because my findings were very different than the calcs the bracket guys told me- by about 4"! I was told that twin 150's were the only way to go- after my setup I'd have to say that a single 225 is great, I have no regrets about it- I am not a speed demon, and I hate it when boats make that crashing sound- it sounds like dollars flying out the window in clumps. If you are in the Long Beach, Ca. area, I would like to invite you out on my rig to check it out- I feel that twins are too expensive an option for this hull for a repower- plus, that dash cannot fit all the gauges and switches for twins, IMO. I also am a fan of the bracket- I need as much fishing space as possible and this affords it. |
jimh |
posted 10-23-2004 09:08 AM ET (US)
This summer we met a gentleman ( "big Mike") in Door County with a notched transom REVENGE 25 and a single 250-HP Yamaha. He had a very large tuna tower on the boat, and also had eight people aboard. I was surprised to see he had no problems getting the boat on plane and cruising along. My REVENGE 22 WT WD is only a five inches shorter and five inches narrower than a REVENGE 25 with notched transom. The single 225-HP engine drives it to about 40-MPH at WOT. I think the Whaler Drive actually runs slower than a notched transom would, so I'd expect a REVENGE 25 to be slightly faster, as others have noted above. |
doobee |
posted 10-23-2004 10:10 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm still waiting for the weather to let me go out and play again. |
c_mccann |
posted 11-01-2004 08:26 PM ET (US)
Here the numbers for the new prop- I am getting close- 3000- 13kts 3500- 19kts 4000- 23.2kts 4500 28.4kts 5000- 30.4kts WOT- 32.4kts. Mileage at cruise- 2.25mpg. |
LHG |
posted 11-02-2004 12:30 AM ET (US)
Twin 200 Merc EFI's give me 2.0 MPG cruise (about 30 mph) on an Outrage 25 with radar arch. It seems that the fuel mileage between 400 2-stroke HP vs 225 4-stroke HP is barely significant. I think it tends to show, once again, that putting low power on a hull is not always the most efficient. To me, the huge difference in performance, 55 knots, is worth a loss of 1/4 gallon per mile. I know that a pair of 150 Optimax on my hull would give 3.0 MPG. |
c_mccann |
posted 11-02-2004 12:42 PM ET (US)
True, I still have to load my boat and go through a full tank and really see what the mileage is. Honda swears I should be at 3-4mpg, I cannot see that, but after my first tuneup I should be at 2.5 no problem. My revenge is a heavy boat- full tower, 140 gal of fuel, dual banks of golf cart batts, 40 gal bait tank. I just see no need for twins on this hull, unless extreme speed is your thing, or you need to pivot it around for docking. |
LHG |
posted 11-02-2004 03:39 PM ET (US)
I'm sure the 225 Honda is a fine motor, but any 225 is going to have to work pretty hard, and at the 500+ higher 4-stroke RPM, to carry around a load like yours. Engines working hard, at higher RPM, are not the most fuel efficient. I would think, for people instested in single engine power on a 25' Whaler hull, the 275 Verado would be the ultimate single engine for the boat, with superior acceleration. I have heard RUMORS, that there will be a 300 HP version one of these days too. I don't think they would have gone to all that expense to develop an engine that can't get the Magic 300 number. It must have the potential of a few more cubes, also, if needed |
macfam |
posted 11-02-2004 07:27 PM ET (US)
Larry, Someday, I would love to get a ride in your 25. It's gotta be awesome. 55 knots is a dream. But in my waters it's out of the question(except maybe two days a year!!!) You'd be surprised what that ol' Yamaha 250 OX66 can do, for a single. But it will never be able to compete with the newer technologies for mpg. Do you think a Verado would look right on a 1988 Revenge Walk-thru? |
LHG |
posted 11-02-2004 08:04 PM ET (US)
Mac - any time you're in my area over the winter months, I'd be happy to let you take her for a spin! I have seen another 25 with a single Yamaha 250, and you're right, it ran quite well. I have also been in a 25 Outrage with a single Johnson 275 V-8, and it ran pretty well too. This engine is about the size of a Verado, so I would think one of those would look good on the 25 as well. The Mercury people were telling me a pair of Verado 175's would look great on mine! |
Marlin |
posted 11-02-2004 09:03 PM ET (US)
LHG, I think what the Mercury people are telling you is that a pair of Verados would look great on their quarterly earnings statement. ;-) -Bob |
andygere |
posted 11-03-2004 05:58 PM ET (US)
Doobie, You might want to take a look at these: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/007464.html |
AlexH |
posted 11-06-2004 08:33 AM ET (US)
I have a '89 25' Outrage Cuddy w/Whaler Drive and two 225 Yamaha 0X66 w/21" Yamaha Salt Water Series props w/a Yamaha fuel management gauge. Performance is generally as follows: RPMs Speed Fuel consumption
Based on my experience, a pair of 150 Yamaha four strokes would be appropriate for the boat taking into account weight, power, fuel economy, price, and comfort (no smoke). |
AlexH |
posted 11-06-2004 08:49 AM ET (US)
So the table is clearer: _RPMs_____Speed_____Fuel Consumption |
doobee |
posted 11-06-2004 11:25 PM ET (US)
Wow thanks for all the feedback. c_mccann, what pitch did you finally settle on? I know I'll lose 300 rpm, but how much speed will I pick up with a 19" pitch? I'm running a single 225 with a 17" prop which is only getting me 17MPH at 3500. The engine does not appear to be laboring or over revving, however, my top end rpm falls short of where it should be, which is not what I would expect from a boat that is under propped. There are some other factors contributing to the low rpm. I think the engine needs to be moved up a couple of notches, and I need to check the throttle linkage for proper adjustment. In my case, a single is the only option. The difference in fuel is not my main concern, but the initial cost of twins, coupled with twice the maintenance, and higher insurance costs, is simply beyond my means. Also I'd prefer to fill the dash with electronics, not engine controls and meters. As Bob, says, this area generally doesn't allow you to run at cruising speed, let alone 50 MPH. If I could cruise at 20 - 25 I'd be happy. |
c_mccann |
posted 11-08-2004 12:59 PM ET (US)
I am running a 17" 4-blade. It leaps up on plane, I am sure yet if I am underpropped, I am using the boat Thanksgiving weekend, and I'll be waay loaded then, so I can judge then. I have never been a speed deamon, primarly because I have always had boats with towers, and pounding is forbidden. 20-21kts is really comfy on the revenge hull with the average conditions around Southern California waters, I want to prop for that speed- a top speed at 30-ish is more than enough. |
raydent99 |
posted 11-14-2004 10:32 PM ET (US)
I posted numbers for a 25' Outrage Cuddy with a Suzuki 250 Four Stroke here: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002846.html |
Sal DiMercurio |
posted 11-16-2004 10:45 PM ET (US)
Alex, somethings not right with your numbers. Rule of thumb is, when using a 21p prop or props, generally your rpms will match your speed or very close to it. There's no way 21p prop or props can push a boat 55 mph at 5200 rpms. Your speed is correct at 3000 rpms & 30 mph but 55 mph isn't possible with 21p props. You would need 25p - 26p props to get 55 mph at 5200 rpms Sal |
LHG |
posted 11-17-2004 09:52 AM ET (US)
SAl - With the 1.76 gear ratio his figures look correct. I believe the big 3.0 liter Mercs and Yamahas run a higher (numerically lower) gear ratio than the 225 OMC's run (1.87?) Mercury's prop charts for the 225/250 EFI/Optimax, running through a 1.75 gear ratio, show speed ranges of 48-60 MPH, running up to 5800RPM. |
Peter |
posted 11-17-2004 09:56 AM ET (US)
The 225 Ox66 turns the prop through a 1.81:1 gearcase. 55 MPH is possible at 5200 RPM. Those results show a 3.75 percent slip. Saltwater Series props are large diameter and have a lot of blade surface area for a 3 blade prop. As a result they get very good traction. |
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