posted 11-13-2004 08:08 PM ET (US)        

9.9/15-HP - Rope Start, 15-inch shaft
Listed at 79 lbs
(add about 5 pounds for long shaft)

• Four-Strokes
F6/F8 - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft
Lsted at 83 lbs

F9.9/F15 - Rope Start, 15-inch shaft
Listed at 99 lbs
(add about 5 pounds for long shaft)

T8 - Electric Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 102 lbs
(does not include the weight of the Power Tilt)
(you must also add the weight of the battery for electric start)

T9.9 - Electric Start
No Specifications on their site as yet.

BOMBARDIER
• Two-Strokes
6/8-HP - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 61 lbs

9.9/15-HP - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 77 lbs

• Four-Strokes
6-HP - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 71 lbs

8-HP - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 88 lbs

9.9/15-HP - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft, (made by Suzuki)
Listed at 99 lbs

9.9/15-HP - Electric Start, 20-inch shaft, (made by Suzuki)
Listed at 107 lbs
(you must also add the weight of the battery for electric start)

MERCURY
• Two-Strokes
8-HP - Rope Start, 15-inch shaft
Listed at 73 lbs
(add about 5 pounds for long shaft)

9.9/15-HP - Rope Start, 15-inch shaft
Listed at 77 lbs
(add about 5 pounds for long shaft)

• Four-Strokes
8/9.9-HP - Rope Start, 15-inch shaft
Listed at 84 lbs
(add about 5 pounds for long shaft)

9.9 Pro Kicker - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 107 lbs

15-HP - Rope Start, 15-inch shaft
Listed at 111 lbs
(add about 5 pounds for long shaft)

HONDA
• Four-Strokes
BF8/BF9.9 - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 98 lbs

BF8/BF9.9 - Electric Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 108 lbs
(you must also add the weight of the battery for electric start)

BF15 - Rope Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 108 lbs

BF15 - Electric Start, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 116 lbs

BF15 - Electric Start, Power Tilt, 20-inch shaft
Listed at 131 lbs

As of 11-13-04
----------------------

I thought I would post some of this data here that I collected about the varying weight differences of the different brands of portable/small outboard kickers. I am hoping that it will be a quick reference for anyone wanting to look up and compare the weight differences. You can also see at a glance what particular size engines weigh the same compared to the next size smaller or larger within a given manufacturer.

Mercury seemed to be the only site that did not list how much their Electric models weighed. In fact, they only gave the weight of the lightest model in that size category. You will have to guess on Mercury weights.

The rest of the weight figures were taken right off of the respective Web sites.

posted 11-13-2004 10:33 PM ET (US)            

T9.9 with electric start remote version: 100 lbs

T9.9 with electric start tiller version: 99 lbs

T9.9 manual start tiller version: 96 lbs

F9.9 manual start tiller version: 94 lbs

F9.9 electric start tiller version: 97 lbs

F9.9 electric start remote version: 98 lbs

The T9.9's standard 11 3/4" x 9 1/4" aluminum prop weighs 2 lbs, I happen to have a new one right here. These motors also have plastic props available. If prop weight is sinking your boat.

Additional weights from other Yamaha shop manuals (for 2004), with aluminum props, longshaft (with one exception):

F6/F8 manual start tiller version: 87 lbs

T8 electric start, tilt, remote: 108 lbs

T8 electric start, remote, (no tilt): 98 lbs

T8 electric start, tiller, tilt: 114 lbs!

T8 manual start, tiller, (no tilt): 97 lbs

9.9C/15C (two stroke) manual start, tiller, note only available in short shaft: 79 lbs for short shaft

6MH/8MH (two stroke) manual start, tiller: 61 lbs (does not say if prop is included)

It's somewhat misleading to toss in unqualified statements that the weight of the battery must be included for electric start. In most cases the weight that people are studying is the transom weight. Only if the battery is at the transom should it be included in transom weight. At the console it's effect on transom weight should not be included. For instance, in my installation the current single engine setup has about 50 lbs of battery in the stern. When the aux is done that battery won't be there, but 72 lbs of batteries will be added to the front of the console. The batteries add to total boat weight, but in my case adding a 100 lb aux and removing 50 lbs of battery only increases the transom weight 50 lbs. Actual increase will be a bit more, prop, extra wires & cables, steering linkage all add their bit. Each person needs to figure their own new weight balances. For a Montuak, adding a aux is probably a good reason for moving the batteries forward.

If you wish to include the battery weight in transom weight for all electric starts, it's only fair to include the weight of the operator at the stern in all manual starts. And, if it's tiller operated, the operator stays back there.

The mounting of a aux is not just a single choice, it's a set of choices about weight distribution and other things. It is not appropriate to focus only on weight balances, any more than it's appropriate to ignore them. They are one part of the complete picture. Start with what you plan to do with the boat. Then look at options for doing it.

posted 11-14-2004 12:06 AM ET (US)            

You didn't mislead anyone by telling them not to configure in the extra weight of a battery no matter where it is located in the boat. You obviously have not made any unqualified statements or judgements either.

Great reference article on your part. I hope everyone will follow your suggestion and go out and purchase all the Service Manuals for every engine before they go out and make a decision on what engine to buy. This will keep the engine manufacturers in busisness just by selling their manuals. Heck, they won't even have to sell engines, just manuals.

I also hope everyone follows all the rest of your fine suggestions.

posted 11-14-2004 02:25 PM ET (US)            

Having a whole set of service manuals for Yamaha's involved buying one CD set. Which I bought for the service manual for the F50 I had. Cheaper than a paper manual for that one engine. And as a added bonus, the CD has all the service manuals from 1995-2004, so when I bought a T9.9 I already had it's service manual. I also did not buy it from the manufacturer, but off Ebay. I'd assume every dealer has to buy a new set every year to keep current. Anyway, sets that are a year or more behind of current are common on ebay at cheap prices. If my memory is right I paid less than $15 for that CD set. And less than $10 for a CD containing all the parts diagrams and numbers from 1984-2002. Just the minimum for doing my own work. It did cost me more for the rigging manaul for my years, because I only managed to find paper ones on Ebay.

I think I made it clear there are several types of weight in consideration. One is the weight at the transom, what virtually all such aux discussions are about. I can't remember a single person coming in worring about total boat weight instead. But, of course that is also a factor. A few do worry about the third thing, weight balance.

For my part in my own decision I examined transom weight, total weight, and weight distribution. Total weight went up by about 120 lbs, transom weight by 50 lbs or so. Center of gravity of the boat slipped very slightly sternward (the new batteries are actually forward of the boat's cg.

BTW, if you are using a separate gas tank for the aux, did you include the weight of that in your calculations? I don't have to include that as my aux will draw from the main supply. The weight from fuel won't change.

In truth it may change, but for a separate reason, I'm considering adding fuel capacity. Needed for the main engine, not the aux.

To me the most amusing is all the hand wringing over the weight of the aux. Then folks toss a baitwell just ahead of the splashwell with hardly a thought to weight...

posted 11-14-2004 03:07 PM ET (US)            

Originally I had a 6 gallon portable tank setup in the back of my Outrage 18.
At the time, everything about this auxiliary engine was temporary.
I wasn't sure about a lot of things at that time.
1. Was it enough power?
2. Was I going to sit in the rear and steer it?
3. Was I going to keep the portable tank or use a oil mix system?
4. I also wanted to make sure of final placement of kicker before drilling final thru transom mounting bolts.
Just to name a few.

Yes, you have to add the weight of the portable tank full of fuel if that is your final configuration. In a Montauk, most people would choose to use the tanks under the seat. In an Outrage, you have a choice of either placing the tank in the splashwell (or rear), or under the seat if you have a Leaning Post or RPS, or from the main built-in fuel tank.
Everything does need to be taken into consideration.

If you re-read my original post, I did not say specifically where the battery should, or would be, located. Only that you would need to add the weight of the battery. Yes, that would be in the TOTAL picture not necessarily added to transom weight.

If you haven't seen my setup, here it is.
http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Outrage/Kicker/
I am still considering new power so that is the reason that I have not thru bolted the kicker on. I may choose (or have to) move the kicker a little to the port side if the new power mandates due to size.
The Oil system holds 1.7 qts of Oil.

All of the original information I posted above is from the actual Web sites.
As noted, some of these sites do not give the weight of the Long Shaft models, they only give the weight of the Short Shaft. This is why I did not guess on the Long Shaft weights. These are FACTS from the Web sites.

Every engine that is posted above came with a factory prop (unless I missed one) so I did not see a need to add any further info on this. If one manufacturer would have stated, Prop not included, then I would have mentioned to add the weight of the prop just as I had done with the battery.

Remember, this was basically just for quick reference and weights reported from actual postings on respective engine manufacturers Web sites. Not my guesses or unqualified statements. Just the Facts.

One thing I forgot to mention is the weight of the Oil in the Four Stroke engine. I did not bother to look that up as I thought it would be minimal.
I also did not mention the weight of the Oil that is needed for my Oil system which holds as mentioned above, 1.7 qts. I thought that was minimal also and the two probably even each other out but if a person wants to get that particular, then all of this would have to be configured into the total picture as well.

There are probably lots of other things that I missed and don't really care about because they are minimal.
Weight of Fuel Fittings? Plastic or Metal? etc., etc.
Too minimal to even consider thinking about for me.
If someone wants to get that detailed, go for it.

Again, I just did this for Quick Reference and tried to keep everything as accurate as possible using the facts from the respective Web pages.
Nothing More, Nothing Less..

Hopefully it will help someone. Already someone mentioned in another thread they were looking for an auxiliary engine that was between 75 and 100 pounds. If they look at this Reference, they can see immediately which ones go over 100 pounds. (not including battery, if needed, no matter where it is placed)

posted 11-14-2004 05:00 PM ET (US)            

I've looked at so many photos of aux installations over the last several months, so can't remember when I first saw photos of yours. It's similar to some others in Cetacea.

I've also looked at aux installations on many other types of boats over my life. Even had some others. All that enters into how I go about this one. I spent some time thinking about mine and sorting out the details before buying anything. I don't have the money to buy more than one option. So, I'm comfortable putting it all in final form.

I might note that even if I'd not been putting a aux on dual batteries were already on the list, and moving them to the console. Deck space is enough reason.

I'm not going to pick through the weight of each component either. It is a little annoying when someone puts great emphasis on a few tens of pounds of weight difference for their aux and has not included things that weigh that much that they do list. Note that's not aimed at any particular person. Someone else can start weighing each bolt. When I was working on weight balance I just tossed in extra on the transom, in the tunnel and at the console. Probably a lot more than it actually will be. I figured misc at 10 lbs for each of those three. Just a number out of the air.

I offered the list of weights from the service manuals as they give it in model specific tables. Why they give it with no prop when a prop is included is one of those mysteries. But, I assume a Yamaha service manual spec section should have the numbers right.

It looks to me like those wanting a aux between 75 & 100 lbs have lots of choices in all types.

A T9.9 has one quart of oil in the crankcase. I expect the T8 is similar. The crankcase itself is included in the engine weight. A separate oil injector is not included in the 2 stroke's weight. Not just the oil, the device itself. As far as I'm concerned not enough weight to bother about, but if folks want to make a big point of saving some weight, enough to be included.

In looking at the Yamaha specs, it's interesting how little difference things like manual vs electric start actually make. For all the haggling over it you would think it doubles the motor weight at the transom. I'm a old enough geezer that I think about a future when I might not be able to rope crank the motor. I think the transom can stand the extra 3 lbs.

I do hope folks will look at the weights you and I posted. And think about it a bit. The weight differences are pretty small. A 2 stroke is not a feather, and a 4 stroke is not a semitruck.

Walt