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Author Topic:   2002 OUTRAGE 21: T-TOP

guido19 posted 03-21-2005 12:02 PM ET (US)
Is a T-Top worth the expense of adding to a 2002 OUTRAGE 21? I am told a canvas top costs about $3000. Is that the going price? What exactly does a T-Top do for me? It seems they are not very big and my main concern was for shade. Am I on the right track?
Thanks,
JC
HAPPYJIM posted 03-21-2005 02:47 PM ET (US)
T-tops are great if most of your time on the boat is for fishing. The t-top allows you to fight the fish from all positions on the boat without straps or rails in the way. A T-top is also handy for mounting extra rod holders(AKA rocket launchers} on the aft rail of the top. An electronics box can be mounted on the underside of the top for VHF and other electronics. The top is a good place to mount the VHF antenna also. The top makes it possible to install clear curtains for wind and rain protection also.
bsmotril posted 03-21-2005 03:46 PM ET (US)
The underside of the tee top is a good place to stow life preservers in a quick open tear-away enclosure. It is a good place to add cockpit lighting, stereo speakers, and mount your antennas up out of the way giving you 360 degree fishability around the boat. Shade is essential where I boat in TX. Even a little is better than none, and a tee top works a lot nicer for fishing than a bimini does.
BillS
guido19 posted 03-21-2005 04:36 PM ET (US)
Thanks guys for the info, one other question is what should a good setup "T-Top" cost in canvas?
HAPPYJIM posted 03-21-2005 04:49 PM ET (US)
I guess that depends on the location. Here in NE North Carolina, they can be found for around $2000. Labor is cheaper here and new fabrication shops are starting all the time. I had one shop quote me a t-top and simple leaning post for $1800. He was just starting after working in a large shop and wanted his product out there to hussle more business. That was back before Thanksgiving and health problems took first priority. I had to settle for a used bimini but as soon as I can, a T-top is at the top of my want list.
More important than cost is to make sure the company has made them before and look at some that have gone through several years of use. Check for cracks and any problems the owner has experienced.
MyOutrage posted 03-21-2005 06:00 PM ET (US)
In the spirit of posting the pros and the cons, I've heard that the boat will ride a little different w/ a T-Top v. Bimini... does anyone know if that holds true with the 21' or is that comment limited to the smaller boats (18' Outrage)?
Jerry Townsend posted 03-21-2005 06:54 PM ET (US)
The T-top will make all boats behave differently - it is just the "degree" of the change. That is - the T-top will affect a 17 - 18 foot boat much more than a 21, et.al. The T-top will affect a lighter, smaller boat more than a larger, heavier one.
Initially, I was thinking very seriously about putting a T-top on my 17 Outrage - but after really thinking about it, decided against it. Consequently, I am still thinking of making some form of shelter for protection against inclimate weather. Therefore this spring, I will make a rapidly set-up shelter and see how it works out.
Another issue or concern regarding T-tops that has not been addressed in this discussion - is the inconvienence or problems when towing. ---- Jerry/Idaho
c_mccann posted 03-21-2005 07:54 PM ET (US)
The T-top will have almost zero effect on the boat's handling. Figure bout 1-2 kt slower.If you hang eisenglass curtains, that will affect the handling more, but being warm and dry is invaluable. And to lessen the chances of sunburn is a huge plus. I fish on a 18 Outrage with a big t-top and the t-top is great- if yu get one, get as many rod holders welded to it as possible. Also use Weblon for the shade material- Sunbrella tends to get beat up bad on small boats and a solid fiberglass top is too heavy.
jimh posted 03-21-2005 08:29 PM ET (US)
As I have mentioned before in almost every thread regarding modification of Boston Whaler boats to add a T-Top, I think the big problems are:
--properly fastening the T-Top to the hull, particularly if the boat was not designed to have a T-Top. Attachment to the deck of a boat with a Unibond hull is very difficult unless there is proper backing material;
--the extreme stress on the boat and the T-Top in highway towing at high speeds. The force from wind pressure is not linear, and going 65-MPH is much greater stress than going 35-MPH. If you never plan to travel on the highway at speed, this may not be a factor for you;
--the weight aloft and wind area of the T-Top will affect the boat's handling, although perhaps not a huge amount.
--it is not convenient to un-rig a T-Top so you are stuck with it all the time, whether you want it or not.
In general, it seems that the principal attraction of the T-Top is for fisherman who anticipate needing to walk freely around the boat while angling for fish with a rod and reel. If you just want a shade from the sun, I think you will be better served with a Bimini top.
A very good Bimini top usually is about $1,000. A cheap Bimini is much less, perhaps $300 if you install it yourself and buy from a mail order store. A T-Top will be much more expensive.
The notion that there is something unsuitable with Sunbrella® material stands in contrast to many, many, many boater's experience with the material. It has been the gold-standard of the boat canvas business for 25-years.
http://www.sunbrella.com/usa/consumer_tops.shtml
phatwhaler posted 03-21-2005 09:29 PM ET (US)
Guido,
I am one of the guys here that likes T-tops, but they are mostly used for fishing as is stated above. I have a OEM Whaler T-top on my 20 Outrage and it was a $3500 option. Back in 1996. Anywho, I like mine because it gives me:
1. More room for electronics
2. Enough Shade
3. A nice place to mount antennas.
4. Looks good (to me)
5. Adds to resale value (in FLorida)This will probably be debated later.
6. Place to mount Outriggers.
Now, if you don't fish, it's probably not worth it. Especially if you have to tow your boat long distances.
phatwhaler out.
Perry posted 03-22-2005 12:51 AM ET (US)
T-Tops are very popular here in Hawaii for many of the reasons stated above. No need to worry about towing at highway speed here for any duration. I had one on my Dauntless 160 but like Jimh said, the hull had no backing plates and was difficult to secure to the deck.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/perrycl/sandbar.jpg
I am awaiting delivery of a 2005 Nantucket and I noticed in the drawings of this boat that it is equipped with backing plates for a T-Top. I am going to have one custom made this summer. I was quoted $2500 including rocket launchers and canvas. I chose a T-Top because I spend lots of time fishing and very little time towing. A high antenna mounting spot is also a great benefit for me.
Perry posted 03-22-2005 01:03 AM ET (US)
Oops that picture was rather small. Try this one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/perrycl/boat016.jpg
guido19 posted 03-25-2005 08:02 PM ET (US)
Once again thanks guys. I really appreciate your help. I use my boat strictly for fishing, so it looks like a T-Top would make a great addition.
All the best.
John
andygere posted 03-28-2005 12:32 PM ET (US)
For more discussion on suitability, function, attachment and experience with T-Tops on Boston Whaler boats, take a look at this recent thread:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007880.html
My 2002 catalog lists a T-Top as an option on the Outrage 21, so I wouldn't worry about problems with fastening the T-top to the deck and console. Make sure your fabricator has the wood locating diagram for your boat (available from Whaler customer service if you don't have one), and that the installer follows Boston Whaler's recomendations for fastener size, spacing, etc. The factory original T-top may be available as an aftermarket item, but I would imagine that would be considerably more expensive than having one made by an experienced local shop.
I would check the web as well as local shops to get a better idea on pricing. There are a lot of variables, including tubing material and size, options (rocket launchers, spreader lights, antenna mounts, electronics boxes, etc.), geometry, top size and others. If you can find a boat of the same vintage with a Whaler OEM T-top, you may want to take some detailed photos and dimensions to provide a custom builder with a good starting point for design.
For a boat that is used primarily for fishing, a T-Top is a great addition, and in my opinion worth the expense. Phatwhaler's list of benefits is on target, and I would add the option of weather curtains to it. I have a T-Top on my Outrage 22 Cuddy, and the only downside of it for me is when I am saltwater flyfishing, when it can be a minor hindrance to casting from the stern of the boat.

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Author	Topic: 2002 OUTRAGE 21: T-TOP
guido19	posted 03-21-2005 12:02 PM ET (US) Is a T-Top worth the expense of adding to a 2002 OUTRAGE 21? I am told a canvas top costs about $3000. Is that the going price? What exactly does a T-Top do for me? It seems they are not very big and my main concern was for shade. Am I on the right track? Thanks, JC
HAPPYJIM	posted 03-21-2005 02:47 PM ET (US) T-tops are great if most of your time on the boat is for fishing. The t-top allows you to fight the fish from all positions on the boat without straps or rails in the way. A T-top is also handy for mounting extra rod holders(AKA rocket launchers} on the aft rail of the top. An electronics box can be mounted on the underside of the top for VHF and other electronics. The top is a good place to mount the VHF antenna also. The top makes it possible to install clear curtains for wind and rain protection also.
bsmotril	posted 03-21-2005 03:46 PM ET (US) The underside of the tee top is a good place to stow life preservers in a quick open tear-away enclosure. It is a good place to add cockpit lighting, stereo speakers, and mount your antennas up out of the way giving you 360 degree fishability around the boat. Shade is essential where I boat in TX. Even a little is better than none, and a tee top works a lot nicer for fishing than a bimini does. BillS
guido19	posted 03-21-2005 04:36 PM ET (US) Thanks guys for the info, one other question is what should a good setup "T-Top" cost in canvas?
HAPPYJIM	posted 03-21-2005 04:49 PM ET (US) I guess that depends on the location. Here in NE North Carolina, they can be found for around $2000. Labor is cheaper here and new fabrication shops are starting all the time. I had one shop quote me a t-top and simple leaning post for $1800. He was just starting after working in a large shop and wanted his product out there to hussle more business. That was back before Thanksgiving and health problems took first priority. I had to settle for a used bimini but as soon as I can, a T-top is at the top of my want list. More important than cost is to make sure the company has made them before and look at some that have gone through several years of use. Check for cracks and any problems the owner has experienced.
MyOutrage	posted 03-21-2005 06:00 PM ET (US) In the spirit of posting the pros and the cons, I've heard that the boat will ride a little different w/ a T-Top v. Bimini... does anyone know if that holds true with the 21' or is that comment limited to the smaller boats (18' Outrage)?
Jerry Townsend	posted 03-21-2005 06:54 PM ET (US) The T-top will make all boats behave differently - it is just the "degree" of the change. That is - the T-top will affect a 17 - 18 foot boat much more than a 21, et.al. The T-top will affect a lighter, smaller boat more than a larger, heavier one. Initially, I was thinking very seriously about putting a T-top on my 17 Outrage - but after really thinking about it, decided against it. Consequently, I am still thinking of making some form of shelter for protection against inclimate weather. Therefore this spring, I will make a rapidly set-up shelter and see how it works out. Another issue or concern regarding T-tops that has not been addressed in this discussion - is the inconvienence or problems when towing. ---- Jerry/Idaho
c_mccann	posted 03-21-2005 07:54 PM ET (US) The T-top will have almost zero effect on the boat's handling. Figure bout 1-2 kt slower.If you hang eisenglass curtains, that will affect the handling more, but being warm and dry is invaluable. And to lessen the chances of sunburn is a huge plus. I fish on a 18 Outrage with a big t-top and the t-top is great- if yu get one, get as many rod holders welded to it as possible. Also use Weblon for the shade material- Sunbrella tends to get beat up bad on small boats and a solid fiberglass top is too heavy.
jimh	posted 03-21-2005 08:29 PM ET (US) As I have mentioned before in almost every thread regarding modification of Boston Whaler boats to add a T-Top, I think the big problems are: --properly fastening the T-Top to the hull, particularly if the boat was not designed to have a T-Top. Attachment to the deck of a boat with a Unibond hull is very difficult unless there is proper backing material; --the extreme stress on the boat and the T-Top in highway towing at high speeds. The force from wind pressure is not linear, and going 65-MPH is much greater stress than going 35-MPH. If you never plan to travel on the highway at speed, this may not be a factor for you; --the weight aloft and wind area of the T-Top will affect the boat's handling, although perhaps not a huge amount. --it is not convenient to un-rig a T-Top so you are stuck with it all the time, whether you want it or not. In general, it seems that the principal attraction of the T-Top is for fisherman who anticipate needing to walk freely around the boat while angling for fish with a rod and reel. If you just want a shade from the sun, I think you will be better served with a Bimini top. A very good Bimini top usually is about $1,000. A cheap Bimini is much less, perhaps $300 if you install it yourself and buy from a mail order store. A T-Top will be much more expensive. The notion that there is something unsuitable with Sunbrella® material stands in contrast to many, many, many boater's experience with the material. It has been the gold-standard of the boat canvas business for 25-years. http://www.sunbrella.com/usa/consumer_tops.shtml
phatwhaler	posted 03-21-2005 09:29 PM ET (US) Guido, I am one of the guys here that likes T-tops, but they are mostly used for fishing as is stated above. I have a OEM Whaler T-top on my 20 Outrage and it was a $3500 option. Back in 1996. Anywho, I like mine because it gives me: 1. More room for electronics 2. Enough Shade 3. A nice place to mount antennas. 4. Looks good (to me) 5. Adds to resale value (in FLorida)This will probably be debated later. 6. Place to mount Outriggers. Now, if you don't fish, it's probably not worth it. Especially if you have to tow your boat long distances. phatwhaler out.
Perry	posted 03-22-2005 12:51 AM ET (US) T-Tops are very popular here in Hawaii for many of the reasons stated above. No need to worry about towing at highway speed here for any duration. I had one on my Dauntless 160 but like Jimh said, the hull had no backing plates and was difficult to secure to the deck. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/perrycl/sandbar.jpg I am awaiting delivery of a 2005 Nantucket and I noticed in the drawings of this boat that it is equipped with backing plates for a T-Top. I am going to have one custom made this summer. I was quoted $2500 including rocket launchers and canvas. I chose a T-Top because I spend lots of time fishing and very little time towing. A high antenna mounting spot is also a great benefit for me.
Perry	posted 03-22-2005 01:03 AM ET (US) Oops that picture was rather small. Try this one: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/perrycl/boat016.jpg
guido19	posted 03-25-2005 08:02 PM ET (US) Once again thanks guys. I really appreciate your help. I use my boat strictly for fishing, so it looks like a T-Top would make a great addition. All the best. John
andygere	posted 03-28-2005 12:32 PM ET (US) For more discussion on suitability, function, attachment and experience with T-Tops on Boston Whaler boats, take a look at this recent thread: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007880.html My 2002 catalog lists a T-Top as an option on the Outrage 21, so I wouldn't worry about problems with fastening the T-top to the deck and console. Make sure your fabricator has the wood locating diagram for your boat (available from Whaler customer service if you don't have one), and that the installer follows Boston Whaler's recomendations for fastener size, spacing, etc. The factory original T-top may be available as an aftermarket item, but I would imagine that would be considerably more expensive than having one made by an experienced local shop. I would check the web as well as local shops to get a better idea on pricing. There are a lot of variables, including tubing material and size, options (rocket launchers, spreader lights, antenna mounts, electronics boxes, etc.), geometry, top size and others. If you can find a boat of the same vintage with a Whaler OEM T-top, you may want to take some detailed photos and dimensions to provide a custom builder with a good starting point for design. For a boat that is used primarily for fishing, a T-Top is a great addition, and in my opinion worth the expense. Phatwhaler's list of benefits is on target, and I would add the option of weather curtains to it. I have a T-Top on my Outrage 22 Cuddy, and the only downside of it for me is when I am saltwater flyfishing, when it can be a minor hindrance to casting from the stern of the boat.