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Author Topic:   REVENGE V-22 with Evinrude 175-HP

Mike Brantley posted 03-22-2005 12:15 AM ET (US)
The consensus seems to be that the 175-HP Evinrude engine on the back of my 1980 V-22 Revenge is the smallest motor I'd want on there and that a 225 or twin 115s would be better. They probaby would be preferable, but this is the power plant I have, and so I will stick with it until such a time as I can afford a new 225 Evinrude E-Tec. That could be a long while.
My motor is a 1998 Evinrude Ocean Pro, and I regret to say I neglected to make note of the size of the aluminum propeller that is on it before carting the boat off to its new home at the marina.
But here is some peformance data anyhow.
On the maiden voyage, wide-open throttle hit 5,000 RPMs on the nose, moved the boat at 31.4 knots (36.1 mph) according to the GPS, and drank about 20 gallons of fuel an hour according to the Navman 3100 fuel flow manager.
Dropping down to 4,000 RPMs reduced the fuel flow to 12.5 GPS and moved us at 24 knots. I have forgotten what was happening at 3,000 RPMs, but I'll make a note next time.
Does this sound about right for what I should be achieving with this boat-motor combination? I'm quite happy with the performance. This is with two adults (including an overweight skipper) and a toddler on board, and with a full fuel tank. Another forum member has told me he hits 40mph with a 22 Outrage Cuddy and same horsepower, but he's propably not as fat as me, and the Cuddy "superstructure" may be a little lighter than that on the Revenge.
The boat planes easily, and I will note that 31 knots on the bigger boat doesn't feel nearly as fast as 31 knots on my 15 Sport, which puts its occupants a lot closer to the water. Also, for whatever reason I find maneuvering the bigger boat alongside docks and in and out of our slip at the marina actually very much easier than the smaller boat. I'm always bouncing the little boat off things (!), but I find it easier to put the bigger boat right where I want it. Curious, huh?
jimh posted 03-22-2005 12:53 AM ET (US)
I think that motor has a 1.85:1 gear ratio. I bet you'll find the propeller is a 17-inch pitch.
2manyboats posted 03-22-2005 12:52 PM ET (US)
Mike do you know the max rpm for the 175?
The wot should be in the upper half of the stated range.
Your numbers on gph and speed are close to what is expected, but you may find 3600 to 3800 rpms gives you to 2+ miles per gallon you should be looking for.
Our old 22 outrage with twin 110 got right at 2 mpg at cruise and you should do better than those two gas hogs.
Vek posted 03-22-2005 03:04 PM ET (US)
I don't know if the '98 evinrudes were Ficht motors, or carburated. If it is a Ficht, you want that motor propped right up against the 5800-6000 rpm level, which is at the upper end of the motor's WOT rpm range. If left where you have it, your motor will fall victim to what plagued early ficht 150/175s: overpropping, lugging, and subsequent carbon buildup and powerhead failure.
If the motor is carburated, it is a touch less sensitive to overpropping than the Ficht, but you still want it up over 5500 rpm WOT if possible.
To further complicate matters, take a hard look at what you reprop with. If you work backwards from a 40mph top speed at 5800-6000 rpm (which is reasonable), you'll probably calculate a prop pitch of 13" to 15". We tried a 15" Michigan Wheel Rapture prop, and it must have much more cup and more true pitch than the 15p aluminum prop it replaced - rpms dropped by 200-300 at WOT.
-Jerry
Mike Brantley posted 03-22-2005 10:40 PM ET (US)
I know all about complicated prop switches, as I switched from an aluminum to a stainless wheel with different cupping on my E-Tec 50 on the other boat and could not predict the results without trying a couple of different stainless props.
Anyway, I finally got home to check the owner's manual on the Evinrude 175 (not a Ficht model) and see that the operating range at WOT is supposed to be between 4,500 and 5,500 RPM. So I am right in the middle. I will aim a little higher when I get around to looking for a stainless prop. But I'm not ready yet.
Interestingly, though, there was a stainless prop in the bow locker when I bought the boat, and I still have it. Can't read any numbers on it because it's got some rust on it, and I don't know yet if it fits this motor. But I may give it a "whirl." If that works out, I'll take it to the local wheel man and get the rust taken off.
Mike Brantley posted 09-18-2005 09:03 PM ET (US)
Forgive me for blowing the dust off this months-dormant thread, but I've only now gotten back to propeller experimentation with my V-22 Revenge.
Yes, my original prop indeed is an OMC 15 x 17. Over the months, my WOT with same crew and full tank of gas has dropped to 4800 -- probably because the load has gotten a little heavier (added radar arch, kicker motor with external fule tank and assorted gear) but possibly also because the OMC aluminum prob has some dings after running over a log. My boat does have bottom paint and always has.
This weekend, I installed a Solas 15.25 x 15 prop and that brought my RPM reading at WOT and slightly trimmed out back to the 5000 mark that I started with. Top speed is 31.9 knots, or about 36 mph.
The owner's manual for my 1998 Evinrude Ocean Pro 175 tells me to shoot for 4500 to 5500 at WOT. Do y'all really think I'm hurting this motor by not achieving higher RPM at WOT? If so, what prop should I go to next? I don't know if there is a lower pitch available than 15 for these V6 motors, but maybe a smaller diameter is called for???
All that said, I am perfectly pleased with how the boat handles with either wheel. It gets onto plane easily, even when I had seven people on board (the old prop). The only time I have felt underpowered was when I was trying to keep up with Jeff/2manyboats in the Biloxi Back Bay, and he flat out left me behind in his Whaler rocket machine!
jimh posted 09-18-2005 11:19 PM ET (US)
Mike--Thanks for the update on the boat performance. Which model of SOLAS propeller did you install?
Peter posted 09-19-2005 09:24 AM ET (US)
Mike, under the assumption that your rig weighs approximately 4000 lbs as loaded, predicted top speed using the 180 hull factor is 37.6 MPH for 175 HP. You are within 1.5 MPH of that predicted top speed with the wind drag caused by a radar arch. I would say you are doing pretty good.
5000 RPM under fully loaded conditions should be OK. FYI it appears that BRP offers a 15 1/2 x 14P SST and a 15 1/2 x 13 aluminum propeller. I would guess that those are not popular sizes so I doubt there would be many dealers having one of these in stock for you to try. They would give your motor a 200 and 400 RPM lift, respectively, but I'm not sure you really need it unless you are heavily loaded all the time. If that is the case, then it might be worth looking into using the lower pitch propellers.
LHG posted 09-19-2005 04:18 PM ET (US)
Tell us more about 2manyboats' "Whaler rocket machine". You've got me curious.
Teak Oil posted 09-20-2005 11:58 AM ET (US)
Sounds like you are running just right with that 15" prop, you should be fine as is.
To add all the junk you did and still keep the same speed as in the spring is pretty good, and it sounds like you have a solid motor.
Enjoy it and quit worrying about the small stuff
Mike Brantley posted 09-20-2005 03:37 PM ET (US)
Sorry, all, for the typos above. That's what I get for balancing a 2-year-old child on one knee and an iBook on the other while posting.
Jim, I'll have to get back to the garage and dig out the propeller box to remind myself what specific Solas propeller I have. It has three blades, measures 15.25 x 15 and is black painted aluminum is all I can tell you right now.
Peter, maybe I'm even closer than 1.5 mph to predicted speed, since my 31.9 knots as measured on the GPS actually converts to 36.7 mph, and my math teacher always told me I could round that up to 37. Besides the arch, you can also figure there's drag from the Mills flying top, which is always deployed. For that matter, an ensign on the stern and a burgee on the bow have to be slowing me down, no? (grin) And my wife sometimes wears a wide-brimmed hat on the boat.
Larry, Jeff has a 1970s era Revenge with Mercury power on it, I believe, though he can correct anything that is wrong or add details that I don't remember. This was the Friday evening of the Biloxi rendezvous in June (ever notice how the sites chosen for our Gulf Coast gatherings these past two or three years have been Ground Zero or close to it for subsequent hurricanes?), and we were following Jeff by water to the restaurant. We were traveling at a leisurely rate until taking a few wrong turns and running late, and then Jeff turned on the warp drive. I don't know how fast he was moving, but he became a speck on the horizon before slowing down so we could catch up.
Teak, yeah, you're right. Shouldn't sweat the little stuff!

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Author	Topic: REVENGE V-22 with Evinrude 175-HP
Mike Brantley	posted 03-22-2005 12:15 AM ET (US) The consensus seems to be that the 175-HP Evinrude engine on the back of my 1980 V-22 Revenge is the smallest motor I'd want on there and that a 225 or twin 115s would be better. They probaby would be preferable, but this is the power plant I have, and so I will stick with it until such a time as I can afford a new 225 Evinrude E-Tec. That could be a long while. My motor is a 1998 Evinrude Ocean Pro, and I regret to say I neglected to make note of the size of the aluminum propeller that is on it before carting the boat off to its new home at the marina. But here is some peformance data anyhow. On the maiden voyage, wide-open throttle hit 5,000 RPMs on the nose, moved the boat at 31.4 knots (36.1 mph) according to the GPS, and drank about 20 gallons of fuel an hour according to the Navman 3100 fuel flow manager. Dropping down to 4,000 RPMs reduced the fuel flow to 12.5 GPS and moved us at 24 knots. I have forgotten what was happening at 3,000 RPMs, but I'll make a note next time. Does this sound about right for what I should be achieving with this boat-motor combination? I'm quite happy with the performance. This is with two adults (including an overweight skipper) and a toddler on board, and with a full fuel tank. Another forum member has told me he hits 40mph with a 22 Outrage Cuddy and same horsepower, but he's propably not as fat as me, and the Cuddy "superstructure" may be a little lighter than that on the Revenge. The boat planes easily, and I will note that 31 knots on the bigger boat doesn't feel nearly as fast as 31 knots on my 15 Sport, which puts its occupants a lot closer to the water. Also, for whatever reason I find maneuvering the bigger boat alongside docks and in and out of our slip at the marina actually very much easier than the smaller boat. I'm always bouncing the little boat off things (!), but I find it easier to put the bigger boat right where I want it. Curious, huh?
jimh	posted 03-22-2005 12:53 AM ET (US) I think that motor has a 1.85:1 gear ratio. I bet you'll find the propeller is a 17-inch pitch.
2manyboats	posted 03-22-2005 12:52 PM ET (US) Mike do you know the max rpm for the 175? The wot should be in the upper half of the stated range. Your numbers on gph and speed are close to what is expected, but you may find 3600 to 3800 rpms gives you to 2+ miles per gallon you should be looking for. Our old 22 outrage with twin 110 got right at 2 mpg at cruise and you should do better than those two gas hogs.
Vek	posted 03-22-2005 03:04 PM ET (US) I don't know if the '98 evinrudes were Ficht motors, or carburated. If it is a Ficht, you want that motor propped right up against the 5800-6000 rpm level, which is at the upper end of the motor's WOT rpm range. If left where you have it, your motor will fall victim to what plagued early ficht 150/175s: overpropping, lugging, and subsequent carbon buildup and powerhead failure. If the motor is carburated, it is a touch less sensitive to overpropping than the Ficht, but you still want it up over 5500 rpm WOT if possible. To further complicate matters, take a hard look at what you reprop with. If you work backwards from a 40mph top speed at 5800-6000 rpm (which is reasonable), you'll probably calculate a prop pitch of 13" to 15". We tried a 15" Michigan Wheel Rapture prop, and it must have much more cup and more true pitch than the 15p aluminum prop it replaced - rpms dropped by 200-300 at WOT. -Jerry
Mike Brantley	posted 03-22-2005 10:40 PM ET (US) I know all about complicated prop switches, as I switched from an aluminum to a stainless wheel with different cupping on my E-Tec 50 on the other boat and could not predict the results without trying a couple of different stainless props. Anyway, I finally got home to check the owner's manual on the Evinrude 175 (not a Ficht model) and see that the operating range at WOT is supposed to be between 4,500 and 5,500 RPM. So I am right in the middle. I will aim a little higher when I get around to looking for a stainless prop. But I'm not ready yet. Interestingly, though, there was a stainless prop in the bow locker when I bought the boat, and I still have it. Can't read any numbers on it because it's got some rust on it, and I don't know yet if it fits this motor. But I may give it a "whirl." If that works out, I'll take it to the local wheel man and get the rust taken off.
Mike Brantley	posted 09-18-2005 09:03 PM ET (US) Forgive me for blowing the dust off this months-dormant thread, but I've only now gotten back to propeller experimentation with my V-22 Revenge. Yes, my original prop indeed is an OMC 15 x 17. Over the months, my WOT with same crew and full tank of gas has dropped to 4800 -- probably because the load has gotten a little heavier (added radar arch, kicker motor with external fule tank and assorted gear) but possibly also because the OMC aluminum prob has some dings after running over a log. My boat does have bottom paint and always has. This weekend, I installed a Solas 15.25 x 15 prop and that brought my RPM reading at WOT and slightly trimmed out back to the 5000 mark that I started with. Top speed is 31.9 knots, or about 36 mph. The owner's manual for my 1998 Evinrude Ocean Pro 175 tells me to shoot for 4500 to 5500 at WOT. Do y'all really think I'm hurting this motor by not achieving higher RPM at WOT? If so, what prop should I go to next? I don't know if there is a lower pitch available than 15 for these V6 motors, but maybe a smaller diameter is called for??? All that said, I am perfectly pleased with how the boat handles with either wheel. It gets onto plane easily, even when I had seven people on board (the old prop). The only time I have felt underpowered was when I was trying to keep up with Jeff/2manyboats in the Biloxi Back Bay, and he flat out left me behind in his Whaler rocket machine!
jimh	posted 09-18-2005 11:19 PM ET (US) Mike--Thanks for the update on the boat performance. Which model of SOLAS propeller did you install?
Peter	posted 09-19-2005 09:24 AM ET (US) Mike, under the assumption that your rig weighs approximately 4000 lbs as loaded, predicted top speed using the 180 hull factor is 37.6 MPH for 175 HP. You are within 1.5 MPH of that predicted top speed with the wind drag caused by a radar arch. I would say you are doing pretty good. 5000 RPM under fully loaded conditions should be OK. FYI it appears that BRP offers a 15 1/2 x 14P SST and a 15 1/2 x 13 aluminum propeller. I would guess that those are not popular sizes so I doubt there would be many dealers having one of these in stock for you to try. They would give your motor a 200 and 400 RPM lift, respectively, but I'm not sure you really need it unless you are heavily loaded all the time. If that is the case, then it might be worth looking into using the lower pitch propellers.
LHG	posted 09-19-2005 04:18 PM ET (US) Tell us more about 2manyboats' "Whaler rocket machine". You've got me curious.
Teak Oil	posted 09-20-2005 11:58 AM ET (US) Sounds like you are running just right with that 15" prop, you should be fine as is. To add all the junk you did and still keep the same speed as in the spring is pretty good, and it sounds like you have a solid motor. Enjoy it and quit worrying about the small stuff
Mike Brantley	posted 09-20-2005 03:37 PM ET (US) Sorry, all, for the typos above. That's what I get for balancing a 2-year-old child on one knee and an iBook on the other while posting. Jim, I'll have to get back to the garage and dig out the propeller box to remind myself what specific Solas propeller I have. It has three blades, measures 15.25 x 15 and is black painted aluminum is all I can tell you right now. Peter, maybe I'm even closer than 1.5 mph to predicted speed, since my 31.9 knots as measured on the GPS actually converts to 36.7 mph, and my math teacher always told me I could round that up to 37. Besides the arch, you can also figure there's drag from the Mills flying top, which is always deployed. For that matter, an ensign on the stern and a burgee on the bow have to be slowing me down, no? (grin) And my wife sometimes wears a wide-brimmed hat on the boat. Larry, Jeff has a 1970s era Revenge with Mercury power on it, I believe, though he can correct anything that is wrong or add details that I don't remember. This was the Friday evening of the Biloxi rendezvous in June (ever notice how the sites chosen for our Gulf Coast gatherings these past two or three years have been Ground Zero or close to it for subsequent hurricanes?), and we were following Jeff by water to the restaurant. We were traveling at a leisurely rate until taking a few wrong turns and running late, and then Jeff turned on the warp drive. I don't know how fast he was moving, but he became a speck on the horizon before slowing down so we could catch up. Teak, yeah, you're right. Shouldn't sweat the little stuff!