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Author Topic:   Johnson vs Yammie 50 (carb only)

project13 posted 03-31-2005 09:13 PM ET (US)
Now that I have tied up a boat, I am close to trying to purchase power for it. I am going to be putting a full power (electric and t/t) tiller 50 on my '78 13. I can get the Johnson for $3990 and the yammie for around $4550. Both are fully rigged w/ prop. All things being equal I would rather have the yammie but I have owned plenty of OMC product ofver the years so I am pretty familar with it. The Yammie is also 3 cyl vs. 2 which I like. The Johnson features no payments and no interest for a year which while not a deciding factor is nice.
What do you all think I should do?
PS I am only considering a carb engine so please don't turn this into a thread exhalting the merits of e-tec etc...
Thanks
Binkie posted 03-31-2005 11:00 PM ET (US)
I think you should buy something you can pay cash for, you`ll enjoy it more and sleep better at night.
macfam posted 03-31-2005 11:33 PM ET (US)
Get the one that weighs the less, and has a dealer you can live with.
Both are pretty darn proven engines.
JBCornwell posted 03-31-2005 11:42 PM ET (US)
I think putting a tiller 50 on a 13 would be foolish. That boat is rated for 20hp as a tiller boat. You are talking 150% of power rating. There are many cheaper and more graceful ways to kill yourself. There is no graceful way to kill someone else.
Had a 50 on a 13 Sport and it scared hell out of me. Removed it and went to 25.
Red sky at night. . .
JB
project13 posted 04-01-2005 09:52 AM ET (US)
I can pay cash for both, but if I don't have to shell out the money for a year, then obviously that is better.
As far as dealer network where I will be using it, there are plenty of both. One reason I am getting a carb is because I would like to be able to work on it myself from a maintenance standpoint.
I am a fairly responsible adult and I realize that the 50 tiller will be a bit dangerous but I don't want the console as it takes up too much room as I am also going to use the boat as a duck boat. I will be the only one operating the boat, and I like to go fast. Too many people have said that they are not impressed with the performance of the 13 with a 40.
project13 posted 04-01-2005 09:58 AM ET (US)
PS, the weight difference is 6 lbs, so it is not a factor. If you can convince me that a 40 is adequate I will listen, but I want the boat to be able to pull me up on a slalom ski (I weigh 225) and I want it to go at least 40 mph with just me in it. I am not a huge believer that there is a lot of logic in the difference between tiller hp rating or console hp rating, or that a NJ trooper or a coastie for that matter would ever know that if he saw me roll by him...
15ftlover posted 04-01-2005 01:20 PM ET (US)
Lose control of that tiller arm, or hit something on the fly and you will come to know the difference between tiller and console controls. Picking the 3 vs. 2 cylinder makes intuitive sense for skiing purposes.
HL
LHG posted 04-01-2005 01:41 PM ET (US)
Get smart, and get the Mercury Classic FORTY, which will out perform either one of those 50's and keep you legal. Check the cubes. The Yamaha 50 is 42.6 cubes with a lousy 6 amp alternator, the Merc 40 is 59 cubes with a 16 amp alternator. The Mercury beats it hands down. As for the two cylinder Johnson, I'm sure it's a fine engine, but also no match for the Merc 40, and has no integral oil injection tank. Three cylinders run a lot better than two. The Merc classic 40 is absolutely the most powerful conventional 2-stroke you can put on an old 13. Better buy one soon, however, as they are going of production shortly, if not already
project13 posted 04-01-2005 02:23 PM ET (US)
Thanks, that does seem like good advise. I have owned 3 mercs. in my life (my '81 15 had a 75 and a 50 during the time I owned it) and they have all been pretty good. Now all I have to do is to find a deal on one...
project13 posted 04-01-2005 03:27 PM ET (US)
I can get the merc 40 (without a prop) for the same price as the johnson 50 w/ prop. Johnson has longer warranty. If I wanted a 40 I can get the Yammie for around $3500.
Any more thoughts?
Decisions, decisions...
TexasWhaler posted 04-01-2005 03:41 PM ET (US)
An even smarter decision, instead of buying a dinosaur carbed 2-stroke Merc with a mere 16 amp alternator, is to buy a 40 hp DFI Enivrude E-Tec with a mean 75 amp alternator, excellent fuel efficiency and performance, and all with a 3-star emissions rating.

project13 posted 04-01-2005 04:05 PM ET (US)
Hey genius, read the whole thread.
My first post says "PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A DISCUSSION ON THE MERITS OF E-TEC." I don't have much interest in dropping $5K on a motor that I can't even change the spark plugs on. Had 150 fichts on my last boat so I know the drill.
Funny thing how they have basically been making outboards the same way for 50 years and now all the sudden that's not good enough. I ride the train to work so I can live with any increased greenhouse gases I may be emitting Friday through Saturday for 3 or 4 months out of the year.
As far as alternator, I am going to have nav lights, any MAYBE a fishfinder, so it really makes no difference to me whether I have a 6 amp or 75 amp alternator. As a matter of fact, I would say the smaller the better, as it is just wasting hp to generate electricity I will never use. I think I am back to leaning toward the 50 Johnson honestly with probably a 40 Yamaha as a second choice. The merc is too expensive for what it is.
LHG posted 04-01-2005 06:33 PM ET (US)
I have seen an advertizement from a Merc dealer in FL for a 3 cylinder 40 2-stroke for $3350, or if you want, the tiller handle version is an extra $175. Having one shipped in for about $200 saves sales tax.
project13 posted 04-01-2005 07:06 PM ET (US)
LHG,
That sounds pretty good. Would you mind emailing me the number for them? rbrennergreen@hotmail.com
Thanks!
Over the LINE posted 04-01-2005 07:48 PM ET (US)
My buddy has a 50hp Johnsonrude and I have a 50hp Yamaha. Both boats are rigged with consoles, not tiller. My motor is a 2003 his is a year or two older. There seems to be no performance difference between the engines. Both boats have been propped right, we fiddled with jack plates, engine heights, etc. Both start when they should and run like they should. Both of us are happy. I think my Yamaha is a little less noisy and I like my multi purpose. Maybe a coin toss.
By the way, we use them both to duck hunt. With two guys, guns, dog, pirogues, etc. that 50 sure is nice. I almost never run it full throttle when I am alone. I think a tiller 50hp would scare me.
Good Luck
TexasWhaler posted 04-04-2005 10:38 AM ET (US)
Sorry about that. Try not being such smartass.
TexasWhaler posted 04-04-2005 10:42 AM ET (US)
Not only that, but if you pulled your head out, you'd have realized that was more of a tit-for-tat repsonse to LHG.
project13 posted 04-05-2005 11:04 AM ET (US)
Try reading the whole thread as you are the one that needs to "pull your head out."
I am leaning back to a 40 yammie now that I have given it more thought but not made a purchase yet.
TexasWhaler posted 04-05-2005 11:17 AM ET (US)
fair enough man. I still didn't think your "hey genius" line was really necessary. There could've been a less sarcastic way of reminding me about the specifics of your thread.
RJG posted 04-06-2005 10:10 PM ET (US)
I would think it unlikely that a 13' with any tiller type motor would pull a 225lb. person sking. I have a Yamaha 40 on a 13 sport and, in a light chop, it flies. A 50hp tiller would be a setup to avoid.
rfdevil1 posted 04-08-2005 04:48 PM ET (US)
"I will be the only one operating the boat, and I like to go fast. "
"but I want the boat to be able to pull me up on a slalom ski (I weigh 225) and I want it to go at least 40 mph with just me in it. "
How are you going ski while driving the boat? Neat trick.
DWE posted 04-08-2005 09:31 PM ET (US)
In my opinion, the best two-stroke engine for the classic 13 is the Mercury Classic Forty which LHG mentioned. I have the two-cylinder version (165-lbs.) on my 1976 13-Sport, and it performs wonderfully—41-MPH with just myself (130-lbs.) and 6.6-gallons of petrol. Our 20-foot pontoon boat is powered by the three-cylinder model (203-lbs.), also a great performing, smooth engine. If I were you, I would choose the two-cylinder version because of its lighter weight and more compact size; it looks better on a 13, too.
bigjohn1 posted 04-09-2005 10:38 AM ET (US)
"What do you all think I should do?"
With a question phrased like that, it goes without saying one is going to get varied opinions - even outside the scope of the various engine choices mentioned. A duck boat AND a ski boat; a boat that must be tiller-steered; and a boat which must attain 40mph. Buy the engine you want and go have a blast.
project13 posted 04-09-2005 05:59 PM ET (US)
rfdevil1 - You caught me. I apologize for not adding "on a regular basis." I will probably end up skiing 2 or 3 times a year max if I am lucky.
bigjohn1 - They are versatile boats aren't they! That is why I bought it afterall.
I finally picked it up yesterday, and I have already starting working on it. It is going to be very unique and exactly what I want. I am 90% sure I will be getting a 40 Yamaha as they are a pretty good deal and the mercs are getting hard to find as I was told by 2 dealers that they stopped producing them in December.
Really I just want to go as fast as my old 15. It did 42 with just me in it w/ a '92 50 merc power t/t and IT PULLED ME UP ON SLALOM (ok I admit I was a bit skinnier 8 or 10 years ago.
The Johnson 50 I was looking at could actually be purchased for less than the yammie but I have decided to opt for some descretion.
Thank you all for your replies.

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Author	Topic: Johnson vs Yammie 50 (carb only)
project13	posted 03-31-2005 09:13 PM ET (US) Now that I have tied up a boat, I am close to trying to purchase power for it. I am going to be putting a full power (electric and t/t) tiller 50 on my '78 13. I can get the Johnson for $3990 and the yammie for around $4550. Both are fully rigged w/ prop. All things being equal I would rather have the yammie but I have owned plenty of OMC product ofver the years so I am pretty familar with it. The Yammie is also 3 cyl vs. 2 which I like. The Johnson features no payments and no interest for a year which while not a deciding factor is nice. What do you all think I should do? PS I am only considering a carb engine so please don't turn this into a thread exhalting the merits of e-tec etc... Thanks
Binkie	posted 03-31-2005 11:00 PM ET (US) I think you should buy something you can pay cash for, you`ll enjoy it more and sleep better at night.
macfam	posted 03-31-2005 11:33 PM ET (US) Get the one that weighs the less, and has a dealer you can live with. Both are pretty darn proven engines.
JBCornwell	posted 03-31-2005 11:42 PM ET (US) I think putting a tiller 50 on a 13 would be foolish. That boat is rated for 20hp as a tiller boat. You are talking 150% of power rating. There are many cheaper and more graceful ways to kill yourself. There is no graceful way to kill someone else. Had a 50 on a 13 Sport and it scared hell out of me. Removed it and went to 25. Red sky at night. . . JB
project13	posted 04-01-2005 09:52 AM ET (US) I can pay cash for both, but if I don't have to shell out the money for a year, then obviously that is better. As far as dealer network where I will be using it, there are plenty of both. One reason I am getting a carb is because I would like to be able to work on it myself from a maintenance standpoint. I am a fairly responsible adult and I realize that the 50 tiller will be a bit dangerous but I don't want the console as it takes up too much room as I am also going to use the boat as a duck boat. I will be the only one operating the boat, and I like to go fast. Too many people have said that they are not impressed with the performance of the 13 with a 40.
project13	posted 04-01-2005 09:58 AM ET (US) PS, the weight difference is 6 lbs, so it is not a factor. If you can convince me that a 40 is adequate I will listen, but I want the boat to be able to pull me up on a slalom ski (I weigh 225) and I want it to go at least 40 mph with just me in it. I am not a huge believer that there is a lot of logic in the difference between tiller hp rating or console hp rating, or that a NJ trooper or a coastie for that matter would ever know that if he saw me roll by him...
15ftlover	posted 04-01-2005 01:20 PM ET (US) Lose control of that tiller arm, or hit something on the fly and you will come to know the difference between tiller and console controls. Picking the 3 vs. 2 cylinder makes intuitive sense for skiing purposes. HL
LHG	posted 04-01-2005 01:41 PM ET (US) Get smart, and get the Mercury Classic FORTY, which will out perform either one of those 50's and keep you legal. Check the cubes. The Yamaha 50 is 42.6 cubes with a lousy 6 amp alternator, the Merc 40 is 59 cubes with a 16 amp alternator. The Mercury beats it hands down. As for the two cylinder Johnson, I'm sure it's a fine engine, but also no match for the Merc 40, and has no integral oil injection tank. Three cylinders run a lot better than two. The Merc classic 40 is absolutely the most powerful conventional 2-stroke you can put on an old 13. Better buy one soon, however, as they are going of production shortly, if not already
project13	posted 04-01-2005 02:23 PM ET (US) Thanks, that does seem like good advise. I have owned 3 mercs. in my life (my '81 15 had a 75 and a 50 during the time I owned it) and they have all been pretty good. Now all I have to do is to find a deal on one...
project13	posted 04-01-2005 03:27 PM ET (US) I can get the merc 40 (without a prop) for the same price as the johnson 50 w/ prop. Johnson has longer warranty. If I wanted a 40 I can get the Yammie for around $3500. Any more thoughts? Decisions, decisions...
TexasWhaler	posted 04-01-2005 03:41 PM ET (US) An even smarter decision, instead of buying a dinosaur carbed 2-stroke Merc with a mere 16 amp alternator, is to buy a 40 hp DFI Enivrude E-Tec with a mean 75 amp alternator, excellent fuel efficiency and performance, and all with a 3-star emissions rating.
project13	posted 04-01-2005 04:05 PM ET (US) Hey genius, read the whole thread. My first post says "PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A DISCUSSION ON THE MERITS OF E-TEC." I don't have much interest in dropping $5K on a motor that I can't even change the spark plugs on. Had 150 fichts on my last boat so I know the drill. Funny thing how they have basically been making outboards the same way for 50 years and now all the sudden that's not good enough. I ride the train to work so I can live with any increased greenhouse gases I may be emitting Friday through Saturday for 3 or 4 months out of the year. As far as alternator, I am going to have nav lights, any MAYBE a fishfinder, so it really makes no difference to me whether I have a 6 amp or 75 amp alternator. As a matter of fact, I would say the smaller the better, as it is just wasting hp to generate electricity I will never use. I think I am back to leaning toward the 50 Johnson honestly with probably a 40 Yamaha as a second choice. The merc is too expensive for what it is.
LHG	posted 04-01-2005 06:33 PM ET (US) I have seen an advertizement from a Merc dealer in FL for a 3 cylinder 40 2-stroke for $3350, or if you want, the tiller handle version is an extra $175. Having one shipped in for about $200 saves sales tax.
project13	posted 04-01-2005 07:06 PM ET (US) LHG, That sounds pretty good. Would you mind emailing me the number for them? rbrennergreen@hotmail.com Thanks!
Over the LINE	posted 04-01-2005 07:48 PM ET (US) My buddy has a 50hp Johnsonrude and I have a 50hp Yamaha. Both boats are rigged with consoles, not tiller. My motor is a 2003 his is a year or two older. There seems to be no performance difference between the engines. Both boats have been propped right, we fiddled with jack plates, engine heights, etc. Both start when they should and run like they should. Both of us are happy. I think my Yamaha is a little less noisy and I like my multi purpose. Maybe a coin toss. By the way, we use them both to duck hunt. With two guys, guns, dog, pirogues, etc. that 50 sure is nice. I almost never run it full throttle when I am alone. I think a tiller 50hp would scare me. Good Luck
TexasWhaler	posted 04-04-2005 10:38 AM ET (US) Sorry about that. Try not being such smartass.
TexasWhaler	posted 04-04-2005 10:42 AM ET (US) Not only that, but if you pulled your head out, you'd have realized that was more of a tit-for-tat repsonse to LHG.
project13	posted 04-05-2005 11:04 AM ET (US) Try reading the whole thread as you are the one that needs to "pull your head out." I am leaning back to a 40 yammie now that I have given it more thought but not made a purchase yet.
TexasWhaler	posted 04-05-2005 11:17 AM ET (US) fair enough man. I still didn't think your "hey genius" line was really necessary. There could've been a less sarcastic way of reminding me about the specifics of your thread.
RJG	posted 04-06-2005 10:10 PM ET (US) I would think it unlikely that a 13' with any tiller type motor would pull a 225lb. person sking. I have a Yamaha 40 on a 13 sport and, in a light chop, it flies. A 50hp tiller would be a setup to avoid.
rfdevil1	posted 04-08-2005 04:48 PM ET (US) "I will be the only one operating the boat, and I like to go fast. " "but I want the boat to be able to pull me up on a slalom ski (I weigh 225) and I want it to go at least 40 mph with just me in it. " How are you going ski while driving the boat? Neat trick.
DWE	posted 04-08-2005 09:31 PM ET (US) In my opinion, the best two-stroke engine for the classic 13 is the Mercury Classic Forty which LHG mentioned. I have the two-cylinder version (165-lbs.) on my 1976 13-Sport, and it performs wonderfully—41-MPH with just myself (130-lbs.) and 6.6-gallons of petrol. Our 20-foot pontoon boat is powered by the three-cylinder model (203-lbs.), also a great performing, smooth engine. If I were you, I would choose the two-cylinder version because of its lighter weight and more compact size; it looks better on a 13, too.
bigjohn1	posted 04-09-2005 10:38 AM ET (US) "What do you all think I should do?" With a question phrased like that, it goes without saying one is going to get varied opinions - even outside the scope of the various engine choices mentioned. A duck boat AND a ski boat; a boat that must be tiller-steered; and a boat which must attain 40mph. Buy the engine you want and go have a blast.
project13	posted 04-09-2005 05:59 PM ET (US) rfdevil1 - You caught me. I apologize for not adding "on a regular basis." I will probably end up skiing 2 or 3 times a year max if I am lucky. bigjohn1 - They are versatile boats aren't they! That is why I bought it afterall. I finally picked it up yesterday, and I have already starting working on it. It is going to be very unique and exactly what I want. I am 90% sure I will be getting a 40 Yamaha as they are a pretty good deal and the mercs are getting hard to find as I was told by 2 dealers that they stopped producing them in December. Really I just want to go as fast as my old 15. It did 42 with just me in it w/ a '92 50 merc power t/t and IT PULLED ME UP ON SLALOM (ok I admit I was a bit skinnier 8 or 10 years ago. The Johnson 50 I was looking at could actually be purchased for less than the yammie but I have decided to opt for some descretion. Thank you all for your replies.