Kodiak Disc Brakes: E-Coat, Silver Cad or Stainless?

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Author Topic:   Kodiak Disc Brakes: E-Coat, Silver Cad or Stainless?

andygere posted 05-15-2005 01:27 PM ET (US)
I've finally decided to end the misery of drum brakes on the dual axle EZ Loader that carries my Boston Whaler Outrage 22 Cuddy. The Kodiaks look like the best units out there, so my only decision is which ones to buy. I use the boat in salt water, but since I have a slip, I only use the trailer a few times a year. Unfortunately, sitting idle seems to be the real killer of trailer brakes, and I'm more than willing to spend the big $ for the stainless if they really are a step up from Silver Cad and E-Coat. Also, it looks like the Stainless rotors are only available as slip-ons, fit over a galvanized hub, where the Silver Cads are available as integral hub/rotor units. Is the galvanized hub a problem that negates the benefit of the stainless rotors? I have a standard 4.5-5 hub pattern, 14" wheels, and will be installing brakes on both axles to replace the drums in place. My actuator is fairly new, and can be modified to run the disc system. Corrosion of the drum brake components has been the main problem, and the trailer is in otherwise very good condition, and I plan to keep it for a long time.
Prices, per wheel that I've seen so far are:
E-coat $115
Silver Cadmium Plated $126
Stainless Steel $317

If anyone has experience with any of the Kodiak brakes, good or bad, please let me know.
Signed,
Throwing away another $160 on replacement drum brakes the weekend before the Rendezvous.
kglinz posted 05-15-2005 04:15 PM ET (US)
I put the Silver Cad Plated on my trailer. I use my trailer about the same as you do, only doing 1 or 2 saltwater launch/retrivals a year. I've had them on a year and no problems. The ramp I use has wash down hoses and I always rinse well. Mine are 6 lug, 12" integral hub rotators. I bought them directly from Kodiak and had them shipped UPS. I used my original coupler, after removing the check valve from the master cylinder and installing the reverse solenoid.
Kemp Lindsey , Boise Idaho
kingfish posted 05-15-2005 10:45 PM ET (US)
Andy-
I just replaced my Tie-Down stainless steel disc brakes with Kodiak silver cadmiums (2 axles x 2 = 4 brake sets). The replacement was due to my absolute lack of maintenance over a period of 3 years, not because the Tie-Downs failed, and the move to Kodiaks was due to all the hype I've been exposed to (and apparently have responded to); not because I knew they were better but because my curiosity was killing me. I haven't put any miles on the new Kodiak SCs yet, and I may never expose them to the amount (frequency) of saltwater you do, but I do have some reflections I'll trot out here with hopes something may be of help to you.
1. Maintain your disc brakes (no matter what make); pull your bleed valves out and coat the threads with anti-seize if you're not certain if that's been already done, bleed them at least once a year, and stay on top of the pad condition, replacing pads before the pad rivets or screws are exposed and start to score your rotors.
2. Having now installed both Tie-Downs *and* Kodiaks, I can tell you that Tie-Downs have 2 pistons on each caliper and Kodiak has only 1, though larger. I can also tell you that Tie-Downs have cast aluminum calipers while Kodiaks have cast iron calipers which are *much* heavier. The jury has hardly even begun to deliberate on that one yet, but my initial reaction is that the lighter (in weight) cast aluminum calipers that Tie-Down uses, along with the double piston design, makes a better installation. I'm not sure what the Kodiak stainless steel kit uses for caliper material, but presume it is either cast iron or stainless. For the amount of money Kodiak wants for a stainless kit, they *should* be stainless. I have understood that the case for cast iron is that it sheds heat more quickly than stainless or cast aluminum, but I don't know that empirically. I also don't know if Kodiak stainless sets are vented or not; the point being that along with the cooling from a vented rotor, you also have the weight of a second rotor in a vented system. With the silver cadmium coated vented double cast iron rotors, that is a lot of weight and mass added to your unsprung weight and, I'm not sure that's a good thing. As I said, the jury is still out, but I'll report in as time goes by and I develop some history with the Kodiaks.
3. The immediate thing I am excited about (and was surprised by) with my new Kodiaks, which are the integral models, is that they come with a clear plastic screw-in hub dust cap cover with a rubber plug, so you can change to an oil bath bearing lubrication system *if you want to*. My spindles are all "spindle-lube" types woth zerk fittings in the ends that allow you to virtually repack your hubs from the outside at will. I firmly believe that (or its cousin that Chuck Tribolet has described with a zerk fitting on the back of the hub) is *the* way to go for a greased system. I have been very happy with my ability to keep my bearings well and easily lubed with that system, but I have had the devils own time keeping my rims clean. My spindle hub dust covers have a bellows-type rubber plug that pops out to allow access to the zerk fitting, and theoretically expands if heat builds up and the grease expands, the idea being that if that does happen, the grease will still be kept inside the hub by the expandable rubber plug. But in my case that just didn't work most of the time; grease would push out and get flung out on the rims, and even on to the hull of the boat. So I am anxious to try the oil bath system on some extended trips. The hype on that system is that the "big boys" (semi trailers) have been using that system for many years, it keeps the hubs cooler, and is even easier to monitor and maintain than the zerk fitting grease system. I will also report back here as I develop history on this.
I don't know if any of this is any help to you at all Andy, but I hope at least some part of it is.
John
p.s. If you *do* go with the Kodiaks, be aware that their bleed valves are two-piece brass fittings, and the actual bleed valve itself is really beentsy and requires a 1/4" end wrench. I just about herniated myself trying to initially bleed my new system until I finally realized that what I had been turning and trying to bleed with was the brass bushing into which the bleed valve was threaded.
Tom W Clark posted 05-16-2005 10:59 AM ET (US)
Andy,
Talk with Royce. He is very knowledgeable about the Kodiaks. Also see this thread:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005734.html
larimore posted 08-19-2007 12:55 PM ET (US)
I got the Kodiak s-cad brakes for my trailer after bad(short) experiences with tie-dowd SS and drum brakes. Initially I was impressed. I use my boat every month or so in salt water. In the past my brakes lasted 1.5 years. These lasted 2.5 years. Warranty is for 3 years. So I called my supplier - Warranty does NOT cover corrison !!! Can you believe that - Whatelse goes wrong in salt water.
I'm now looking at both Tie-Down and Kodiak. The Kodiak SS is way too much for me.
Kodiak SCad Problems-
Mis-leading warranty
Rotors rust when sitting out of use for extended periods
Brake pads rust very quickly(auto pads)
Must repack bearings each installation
Tie-Down Advantages
Stainless rotor
Aluminum caliper
Prepacked bearings
I'm going to give Tie-Down a second try after 5 years. They are easier to install(important!) and appear to have better potential.

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Author	Topic: Kodiak Disc Brakes: E-Coat, Silver Cad or Stainless?
andygere	posted 05-15-2005 01:27 PM ET (US) I've finally decided to end the misery of drum brakes on the dual axle EZ Loader that carries my Boston Whaler Outrage 22 Cuddy. The Kodiaks look like the best units out there, so my only decision is which ones to buy. I use the boat in salt water, but since I have a slip, I only use the trailer a few times a year. Unfortunately, sitting idle seems to be the real killer of trailer brakes, and I'm more than willing to spend the big $ for the stainless if they really are a step up from Silver Cad and E-Coat. Also, it looks like the Stainless rotors are only available as slip-ons, fit over a galvanized hub, where the Silver Cads are available as integral hub/rotor units. Is the galvanized hub a problem that negates the benefit of the stainless rotors? I have a standard 4.5-5 hub pattern, 14" wheels, and will be installing brakes on both axles to replace the drums in place. My actuator is fairly new, and can be modified to run the disc system. Corrosion of the drum brake components has been the main problem, and the trailer is in otherwise very good condition, and I plan to keep it for a long time. Prices, per wheel that I've seen so far are: E-coat $115 Silver Cadmium Plated $126 Stainless Steel $317 If anyone has experience with any of the Kodiak brakes, good or bad, please let me know. Signed, Throwing away another $160 on replacement drum brakes the weekend before the Rendezvous.
kglinz	posted 05-15-2005 04:15 PM ET (US) I put the Silver Cad Plated on my trailer. I use my trailer about the same as you do, only doing 1 or 2 saltwater launch/retrivals a year. I've had them on a year and no problems. The ramp I use has wash down hoses and I always rinse well. Mine are 6 lug, 12" integral hub rotators. I bought them directly from Kodiak and had them shipped UPS. I used my original coupler, after removing the check valve from the master cylinder and installing the reverse solenoid. Kemp Lindsey , Boise Idaho
kingfish	posted 05-15-2005 10:45 PM ET (US) Andy- I just replaced my Tie-Down stainless steel disc brakes with Kodiak silver cadmiums (2 axles x 2 = 4 brake sets). The replacement was due to my absolute lack of maintenance over a period of 3 years, not because the Tie-Downs failed, and the move to Kodiaks was due to all the hype I've been exposed to (and apparently have responded to); not because I knew they were better but because my curiosity was killing me. I haven't put any miles on the new Kodiak SCs yet, and I may never expose them to the amount (frequency) of saltwater you do, but I do have some reflections I'll trot out here with hopes something may be of help to you. 1. Maintain your disc brakes (no matter what make); pull your bleed valves out and coat the threads with anti-seize if you're not certain if that's been already done, bleed them at least once a year, and stay on top of the pad condition, replacing pads before the pad rivets or screws are exposed and start to score your rotors. 2. Having now installed both Tie-Downs and Kodiaks, I can tell you that Tie-Downs have 2 pistons on each caliper and Kodiak has only 1, though larger. I can also tell you that Tie-Downs have cast aluminum calipers while Kodiaks have cast iron calipers which are much heavier. The jury has hardly even begun to deliberate on that one yet, but my initial reaction is that the lighter (in weight) cast aluminum calipers that Tie-Down uses, along with the double piston design, makes a better installation. I'm not sure what the Kodiak stainless steel kit uses for caliper material, but presume it is either cast iron or stainless. For the amount of money Kodiak wants for a stainless kit, they should be stainless. I have understood that the case for cast iron is that it sheds heat more quickly than stainless or cast aluminum, but I don't know that empirically. I also don't know if Kodiak stainless sets are vented or not; the point being that along with the cooling from a vented rotor, you also have the weight of a second rotor in a vented system. With the silver cadmium coated vented double cast iron rotors, that is a lot of weight and mass added to your unsprung weight and, I'm not sure that's a good thing. As I said, the jury is still out, but I'll report in as time goes by and I develop some history with the Kodiaks. 3. The immediate thing I am excited about (and was surprised by) with my new Kodiaks, which are the integral models, is that they come with a clear plastic screw-in hub dust cap cover with a rubber plug, so you can change to an oil bath bearing lubrication system if you want to. My spindles are all "spindle-lube" types woth zerk fittings in the ends that allow you to virtually repack your hubs from the outside at will. I firmly believe that (or its cousin that Chuck Tribolet has described with a zerk fitting on the back of the hub) is the way to go for a greased system. I have been very happy with my ability to keep my bearings well and easily lubed with that system, but I have had the devils own time keeping my rims clean. My spindle hub dust covers have a bellows-type rubber plug that pops out to allow access to the zerk fitting, and theoretically expands if heat builds up and the grease expands, the idea being that if that does happen, the grease will still be kept inside the hub by the expandable rubber plug. But in my case that just didn't work most of the time; grease would push out and get flung out on the rims, and even on to the hull of the boat. So I am anxious to try the oil bath system on some extended trips. The hype on that system is that the "big boys" (semi trailers) have been using that system for many years, it keeps the hubs cooler, and is even easier to monitor and maintain than the zerk fitting grease system. I will also report back here as I develop history on this. I don't know if any of this is any help to you at all Andy, but I hope at least some part of it is. John p.s. If you do go with the Kodiaks, be aware that their bleed valves are two-piece brass fittings, and the actual bleed valve itself is really beentsy and requires a 1/4" end wrench. I just about herniated myself trying to initially bleed my new system until I finally realized that what I had been turning and trying to bleed with was the brass bushing into which the bleed valve was threaded.
Tom W Clark	posted 05-16-2005 10:59 AM ET (US) Andy, Talk with Royce. He is very knowledgeable about the Kodiaks. Also see this thread: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005734.html
larimore	posted 08-19-2007 12:55 PM ET (US) I got the Kodiak s-cad brakes for my trailer after bad(short) experiences with tie-dowd SS and drum brakes. Initially I was impressed. I use my boat every month or so in salt water. In the past my brakes lasted 1.5 years. These lasted 2.5 years. Warranty is for 3 years. So I called my supplier - Warranty does NOT cover corrison !!! Can you believe that - Whatelse goes wrong in salt water. I'm now looking at both Tie-Down and Kodiak. The Kodiak SS is way too much for me. Kodiak SCad Problems- Mis-leading warranty Rotors rust when sitting out of use for extended periods Brake pads rust very quickly(auto pads) Must repack bearings each installation Tie-Down Advantages Stainless rotor Aluminum caliper Prepacked bearings I'm going to give Tie-Down a second try after 5 years. They are easier to install(important!) and appear to have better potential.