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Author Topic:   REVENGE 22: Auxiliary or Kicker Motor

joncon17 posted 07-27-2005 01:46 AM ET (US)
As an auxiliary motor for c.1985 REVENGE 22, which Yamaha brand four-stroke motor is better: a 15-HP or a 9-HP? I use the REVENGE 22 for fishing 20 to 30 nautical miles offshore. I also want to use the same motor for a dingy. The weight difference between these two motors is 34 lbs; the price difference is $1,900. The REVENGE 22 is powered by a 1989 Yamaha 225-HP..
alfa posted 07-27-2005 08:51 AM ET (US)
Look at this article :
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/yamahaT8Kicker.html
David Ratusnik posted 07-27-2005 09:36 AM ET (US)
joncon17-- I use an 2003 Johnson 9.9-HP on a 1986 Outrage 22 as a kicker, then switch it over to power an oldish 16' Gheenoe. Works. David
jimp posted 07-27-2005 10:33 AM ET (US)
I use a 1990 Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke Hi-thrust with long-shaft on my 1990 Revenge 22 WT (Cetacea pg 44). It's heavy--125-130 pounds or so. Cruises the boat at 5.5 knots in calm water. I was thinking of eventually replacing it with a 15 hp, but why? The 9.9 does fine.
JimP
humboldt jim posted 07-29-2005 12:56 AM ET (US)
A 2001 10-HP Evinrude high thrust long shaft four blade prop pushes my Outrage 22 similar to jimp's. It goes 5 to 6.5 knots depending on conditions. I use it to troll salmon. A sweet engine that's got me out of a pinch when necesary within 6 miles. When I am out 20 to 30 miles I usually am in radio contact with other boats. In that situation the Coast Guard or your fishing fleet are your saving grace if your main engine [vulgar colloquialism for fails], in my opinion.
jimh posted 07-29-2005 09:07 AM ET (US)
John Flook's article gives many insights into the factors to be considered when choosing an auxiliary engine. More important than the horsepower rating, the choice of a proper propeller is paramount. If you get a 15-HP motor and a propeller with the wrong pitch, the performance will be inferior to a lower horsepower motor whose gearing and propeller are designed for use as an auxiliary motor on a large boat.
Moving a heavy four-stroke engine from the transom of the REVENGE to the transom of a dingy sounds like a difficult task. If you really plan to do that often, I would look carefully at the weight of the motor. Also, such use seems to preclude having an auxiliary motor with power trim, remote controls, and electric starting.
If you choose the motor and its propeller for best results on the main boat as an auxiliary motor, it probably won't be a great performer on a small dingy.
Bulldog posted 07-29-2005 02:15 PM ET (US)
I agree with Jim, check out the T-8 installation , go that way. Then with the money saved go get a 3 to 5hp motor for the dingy. Having a second engine to use just for trolling is one thing, but when calling it an auxilary motor, I would think that you would want electric start, controls at helm, and have it tied to your main engine sterring. Leaving the helm , to try and start a back up motor and then steering from the stern, doesn't sound like fun to me. There have been several really nice installations documented in the reference area, nicest one seemed to use a dual control binnacle for both motors,sweet!....Jack
andygere posted 07-29-2005 02:50 PM ET (US)
Here's my 2 cents, having done it 2 different ways: Whichever motor you select, go with a permanent installation and rig it with electric start, a dual binacle control at the helm, and a steering tie bar such as those made by Panther Marine. This allows convenient and easy use of the kicker, both for trolling and emergency use, and really makes it a great investment for your boat. Selecting the same brand as your main engine will simplify rigging, but you can certainly mix brands and still set it up with remote controls.
My Outrage 22 Cuddy has a 15 hp 2-stroke kicker on it, and it pushes the boat to 6 mph in all conditions with a low pitch prop on it. It's mounted directly to the transom, and is easy to deploy and operate the way it is rigged. On some motors, the 9.9 and 15 are the same size and weight, and pricing is often just a few hundred dollars more for the 15. Clearly this is not the case with the Yamaha's you are considering, and I'd be inclined to go with the 9.9 for the lower weight alone. Based on articles posted here, I'm convinced that 8 hp is more than adequate for most conditions, and will certainly be great for trolling. Use the extra $1,900 to buy a dedicated outboard for the dink.
Here's a photo showing the tiebar detail: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Whaler%20details/tiebar.jpg
This picture shows the dual binacle controls and keyswitches: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Whaler%20details/console.jpg
This photo shows the main and kicker rigged on the boat. Note that the boat is loaded with gear, has 2 batteries and 2 oil tanks in the splashwell, and still has plenty of freeboard. http://home.earthlink.net/~andygere/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/namequoitberth.jpg

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Author	Topic: REVENGE 22: Auxiliary or Kicker Motor
joncon17	posted 07-27-2005 01:46 AM ET (US) As an auxiliary motor for c.1985 REVENGE 22, which Yamaha brand four-stroke motor is better: a 15-HP or a 9-HP? I use the REVENGE 22 for fishing 20 to 30 nautical miles offshore. I also want to use the same motor for a dingy. The weight difference between these two motors is 34 lbs; the price difference is $1,900. The REVENGE 22 is powered by a 1989 Yamaha 225-HP..
alfa	posted 07-27-2005 08:51 AM ET (US) Look at this article : http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/yamahaT8Kicker.html
David Ratusnik	posted 07-27-2005 09:36 AM ET (US) joncon17-- I use an 2003 Johnson 9.9-HP on a 1986 Outrage 22 as a kicker, then switch it over to power an oldish 16' Gheenoe. Works. David
jimp	posted 07-27-2005 10:33 AM ET (US) I use a 1990 Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke Hi-thrust with long-shaft on my 1990 Revenge 22 WT (Cetacea pg 44). It's heavy--125-130 pounds or so. Cruises the boat at 5.5 knots in calm water. I was thinking of eventually replacing it with a 15 hp, but why? The 9.9 does fine. JimP
humboldt jim	posted 07-29-2005 12:56 AM ET (US) A 2001 10-HP Evinrude high thrust long shaft four blade prop pushes my Outrage 22 similar to jimp's. It goes 5 to 6.5 knots depending on conditions. I use it to troll salmon. A sweet engine that's got me out of a pinch when necesary within 6 miles. When I am out 20 to 30 miles I usually am in radio contact with other boats. In that situation the Coast Guard or your fishing fleet are your saving grace if your main engine [vulgar colloquialism for fails], in my opinion.
jimh	posted 07-29-2005 09:07 AM ET (US) John Flook's article gives many insights into the factors to be considered when choosing an auxiliary engine. More important than the horsepower rating, the choice of a proper propeller is paramount. If you get a 15-HP motor and a propeller with the wrong pitch, the performance will be inferior to a lower horsepower motor whose gearing and propeller are designed for use as an auxiliary motor on a large boat. Moving a heavy four-stroke engine from the transom of the REVENGE to the transom of a dingy sounds like a difficult task. If you really plan to do that often, I would look carefully at the weight of the motor. Also, such use seems to preclude having an auxiliary motor with power trim, remote controls, and electric starting. If you choose the motor and its propeller for best results on the main boat as an auxiliary motor, it probably won't be a great performer on a small dingy.
Bulldog	posted 07-29-2005 02:15 PM ET (US) I agree with Jim, check out the T-8 installation , go that way. Then with the money saved go get a 3 to 5hp motor for the dingy. Having a second engine to use just for trolling is one thing, but when calling it an auxilary motor, I would think that you would want electric start, controls at helm, and have it tied to your main engine sterring. Leaving the helm , to try and start a back up motor and then steering from the stern, doesn't sound like fun to me. There have been several really nice installations documented in the reference area, nicest one seemed to use a dual control binnacle for both motors,sweet!....Jack
andygere	posted 07-29-2005 02:50 PM ET (US) Here's my 2 cents, having done it 2 different ways: Whichever motor you select, go with a permanent installation and rig it with electric start, a dual binacle control at the helm, and a steering tie bar such as those made by Panther Marine. This allows convenient and easy use of the kicker, both for trolling and emergency use, and really makes it a great investment for your boat. Selecting the same brand as your main engine will simplify rigging, but you can certainly mix brands and still set it up with remote controls. My Outrage 22 Cuddy has a 15 hp 2-stroke kicker on it, and it pushes the boat to 6 mph in all conditions with a low pitch prop on it. It's mounted directly to the transom, and is easy to deploy and operate the way it is rigged. On some motors, the 9.9 and 15 are the same size and weight, and pricing is often just a few hundred dollars more for the 15. Clearly this is not the case with the Yamaha's you are considering, and I'd be inclined to go with the 9.9 for the lower weight alone. Based on articles posted here, I'm convinced that 8 hp is more than adequate for most conditions, and will certainly be great for trolling. Use the extra $1,900 to buy a dedicated outboard for the dink. Here's a photo showing the tiebar detail: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Whaler%20details/tiebar.jpg This picture shows the dual binacle controls and keyswitches: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Whaler%20details/console.jpg This photo shows the main and kicker rigged on the boat. Note that the boat is loaded with gear, has 2 batteries and 2 oil tanks in the splashwell, and still has plenty of freeboard. http://home.earthlink.net/~andygere/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/namequoitberth.jpg