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Author Topic:   New to Whaler: Stiff Steering?

jk_mcknight posted 08-02-2005 11:39 AM ET (US)
I just bought my first Whaler, a 2001 Dauntless 160 with a Mercury 115 4-stroke EFI. The prior owner commented to me that Whalers have characteristically stiff steering, which I have certainly found to be the case with my Dantless. At times it feels as if the steering is "stuck." Is this normal or is some adjustment/repair required. Thanks for your help.
John
Tom W Clark posted 08-02-2005 12:17 PM ET (US)
Whalers do NOT have "characteristically stiff" steering. If it is stiff, there is something wrong with it. The problem is usually rust and/or lack of grease in the tilt tube.
jk_mcknight posted 08-02-2005 01:31 PM ET (US)
Hi Tom,
I think you may be on to something. How do I go about putting grease in the tilt tube and what kind of grease would you recommend?
Thanks,
John
Tom W Clark posted 08-02-2005 01:53 PM ET (US)
John,
The best way to grease the steering cable end is to remove it from the tilt tube of the motor, clean it up, ream out the tilt tube itself and the re-grease and reassemble.
I would use whatever grease is recommended by your Mercury Owner's Manual, with is probably Quicksilver 2-4-C Marine Lubricant or Mercury 101 with Teflon. If you have neither and going to buy some, get the Mercury 101. It's worth the extra money.
jk_mcknight posted 08-02-2005 02:16 PM ET (US)
Hi Tom,
Thanks again, that's great information.
One would assume that a simple regreasing should solve the problem. What is the liklihood the steering assembly needs to be replaced do you think?
John
Plotman posted 08-02-2005 03:10 PM ET (US)
On a 2001, pretty low. Very low. Liklihood that the prior owner didn't do the simple preventative maintenance that would have avoided this problem: pretty high.
A very good way to clean out the inside of the tilt tube is a cleaning brush for a 12 guage shotgun. Works really well if you chuck a cleaning rod in a drill and run it through the tilt tube that way.
Marlin posted 08-02-2005 03:15 PM ET (US)
Keep in mind that your boat uses the Teleflex "no feedback" steering system. There's some sort of clutch in the head unit that locks the steering in place when you are not turning the wheel. This gives the device a bit of a stiff feeling, and also results in a little bit of play before turning the wheel has any effect. This is normal for this unit. Whether you have a problem with yours, beyond this normal feel, I couldn't say. You should be able to turn the wheel with one hand, but not with one finger.
I really disliked it at first, but I find I don't notice it anymore.
-Bob
jk_mcknight posted 08-02-2005 04:26 PM ET (US)
Hi Bob,
Most of the time the clutch does work properly but on occassion it does feel like it is stuck and makes a little "stiffness or unsticking noise" when you turn the wheel.
The clutch mechanism makes a lot of sense, but at this point in my experience it feels like it is working too well, on occasion.
John
Eddy G posted 08-03-2005 09:26 AM ET (US)
The best money I've spent on my '94 Montauk is Baystar Hydraulic Steering. I hated the "sticking feeling" of the No Feedback Steering that came from Whaler. It greatly reduced the pleasure of driving the boat. Now, it steers as smooth as glass. I installed mine myself about three years ago and highly recommend it.
Eddy G.
brkenner posted 08-03-2005 09:15 PM ET (US)
I had the same problem last month with my steering. The engine got stuck while chasing a fish and the wheel would not move. I forced the wheel and broke a couple of gears in the steering assembly. After pulling everything apart, I found the real cause of the stuck steering. The vertical pivot tube (on the engine) was corroded. This is the mechanism that allows the engine to swing right and left. I removed the steering cable from the engine and tried to turn it my hand. It was stuck. I greased the tube and now it is better, but not perfect. I am replacing the teleflex with seastar. It is expensive, but worth it. Good Luck.
jk_mcknight posted 08-04-2005 03:45 PM ET (US)
How much would the Baystar (Seastar) steering system go for?
John
brkenner posted 08-04-2005 08:17 PM ET (US)
Baystar is $700 at West Marine and Seastar is $1050. The maximum horsepower rating for baystar is 150. The general consensus at the marina and the dealership is that if the engine is 150hp or more then go with seastar. Baystar is good for 140hp or less. I always like to err on the side of caution and $350 is immaterial when it comes to the whaler. You should be fine with baystar. Try turning the engine by hand after the steering cable is removed.
I just sold the 1989 twin 70 Johnsons for $500 and I am in the process of repowering with a Honda 150.
Sheila posted 08-08-2005 03:20 AM ET (US)
Check surplusunlimited.com for pricing on BayStar and SeaStar systems.
rltyoung posted 01-25-2006 03:52 PM ET (US)
[Recommended a particular brand of steering.]
FRSam posted 03-20-2006 08:47 PM ET (US)
Does the BayStar and SeaStar steering also have the clutch to hold the steering in place when you're not turning the wheel?--Thanks. Pete
jimh posted 03-20-2006 10:35 PM ET (US)
The Teleflex BayStar and SeaStar steering systems are hydraulically operated. They are not mechanical steering systems. They do not have mechanical clutches in them.
sosmerc posted 03-20-2006 11:26 PM ET (US)
Regarding "stiff steering".....keep in mind that engine mounting height, and the position of the engine trim tab can have quite an influence on how your steering "feels" underway. The 115 Merc 4 stroke uses a lower unit design that I have found works quite well when mounted a bit higher than normal. Even with a good aluminum prop, the cavitation plate can be up as much as an inch from level with the bottom. This reduces torque and drag. With a good stainless prop such as a Laser II, HighFive, Rapture, etc...you can go even higher.
With the engine at rest, it should steer side to side very easily...if not, it needs servicing. If it steers easily side to side, but seems pretty hard when underway, you may want to try adjusting your trim tab...and for even more improvement, raise the engine on the transom.
(and yes, hydraulic steering is the cat's meow and is well worth the investment if you can afford it)

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Author	Topic: New to Whaler: Stiff Steering?
jk_mcknight	posted 08-02-2005 11:39 AM ET (US) I just bought my first Whaler, a 2001 Dauntless 160 with a Mercury 115 4-stroke EFI. The prior owner commented to me that Whalers have characteristically stiff steering, which I have certainly found to be the case with my Dantless. At times it feels as if the steering is "stuck." Is this normal or is some adjustment/repair required. Thanks for your help. John
Tom W Clark	posted 08-02-2005 12:17 PM ET (US) Whalers do NOT have "characteristically stiff" steering. If it is stiff, there is something wrong with it. The problem is usually rust and/or lack of grease in the tilt tube.
jk_mcknight	posted 08-02-2005 01:31 PM ET (US) Hi Tom, I think you may be on to something. How do I go about putting grease in the tilt tube and what kind of grease would you recommend? Thanks, John
Tom W Clark	posted 08-02-2005 01:53 PM ET (US) John, The best way to grease the steering cable end is to remove it from the tilt tube of the motor, clean it up, ream out the tilt tube itself and the re-grease and reassemble. I would use whatever grease is recommended by your Mercury Owner's Manual, with is probably Quicksilver 2-4-C Marine Lubricant or Mercury 101 with Teflon. If you have neither and going to buy some, get the Mercury 101. It's worth the extra money.
jk_mcknight	posted 08-02-2005 02:16 PM ET (US) Hi Tom, Thanks again, that's great information. One would assume that a simple regreasing should solve the problem. What is the liklihood the steering assembly needs to be replaced do you think? John
Plotman	posted 08-02-2005 03:10 PM ET (US) On a 2001, pretty low. Very low. Liklihood that the prior owner didn't do the simple preventative maintenance that would have avoided this problem: pretty high. A very good way to clean out the inside of the tilt tube is a cleaning brush for a 12 guage shotgun. Works really well if you chuck a cleaning rod in a drill and run it through the tilt tube that way.
Marlin	posted 08-02-2005 03:15 PM ET (US) Keep in mind that your boat uses the Teleflex "no feedback" steering system. There's some sort of clutch in the head unit that locks the steering in place when you are not turning the wheel. This gives the device a bit of a stiff feeling, and also results in a little bit of play before turning the wheel has any effect. This is normal for this unit. Whether you have a problem with yours, beyond this normal feel, I couldn't say. You should be able to turn the wheel with one hand, but not with one finger. I really disliked it at first, but I find I don't notice it anymore. -Bob
jk_mcknight	posted 08-02-2005 04:26 PM ET (US) Hi Bob, Most of the time the clutch does work properly but on occassion it does feel like it is stuck and makes a little "stiffness or unsticking noise" when you turn the wheel. The clutch mechanism makes a lot of sense, but at this point in my experience it feels like it is working too well, on occasion. John
Eddy G	posted 08-03-2005 09:26 AM ET (US) The best money I've spent on my '94 Montauk is Baystar Hydraulic Steering. I hated the "sticking feeling" of the No Feedback Steering that came from Whaler. It greatly reduced the pleasure of driving the boat. Now, it steers as smooth as glass. I installed mine myself about three years ago and highly recommend it. Eddy G.
brkenner	posted 08-03-2005 09:15 PM ET (US) I had the same problem last month with my steering. The engine got stuck while chasing a fish and the wheel would not move. I forced the wheel and broke a couple of gears in the steering assembly. After pulling everything apart, I found the real cause of the stuck steering. The vertical pivot tube (on the engine) was corroded. This is the mechanism that allows the engine to swing right and left. I removed the steering cable from the engine and tried to turn it my hand. It was stuck. I greased the tube and now it is better, but not perfect. I am replacing the teleflex with seastar. It is expensive, but worth it. Good Luck.
jk_mcknight	posted 08-04-2005 03:45 PM ET (US) How much would the Baystar (Seastar) steering system go for? John
brkenner	posted 08-04-2005 08:17 PM ET (US) Baystar is $700 at West Marine and Seastar is $1050. The maximum horsepower rating for baystar is 150. The general consensus at the marina and the dealership is that if the engine is 150hp or more then go with seastar. Baystar is good for 140hp or less. I always like to err on the side of caution and $350 is immaterial when it comes to the whaler. You should be fine with baystar. Try turning the engine by hand after the steering cable is removed. I just sold the 1989 twin 70 Johnsons for $500 and I am in the process of repowering with a Honda 150.
Sheila	posted 08-08-2005 03:20 AM ET (US) Check surplusunlimited.com for pricing on BayStar and SeaStar systems.
rltyoung	posted 01-25-2006 03:52 PM ET (US) [Recommended a particular brand of steering.]
FRSam	posted 03-20-2006 08:47 PM ET (US) Does the BayStar and SeaStar steering also have the clutch to hold the steering in place when you're not turning the wheel?--Thanks. Pete
jimh	posted 03-20-2006 10:35 PM ET (US) The Teleflex BayStar and SeaStar steering systems are hydraulically operated. They are not mechanical steering systems. They do not have mechanical clutches in them.
sosmerc	posted 03-20-2006 11:26 PM ET (US) Regarding "stiff steering".....keep in mind that engine mounting height, and the position of the engine trim tab can have quite an influence on how your steering "feels" underway. The 115 Merc 4 stroke uses a lower unit design that I have found works quite well when mounted a bit higher than normal. Even with a good aluminum prop, the cavitation plate can be up as much as an inch from level with the bottom. This reduces torque and drag. With a good stainless prop such as a Laser II, HighFive, Rapture, etc...you can go even higher. With the engine at rest, it should steer side to side very easily...if not, it needs servicing. If it steers easily side to side, but seems pretty hard when underway, you may want to try adjusting your trim tab...and for even more improvement, raise the engine on the transom. (and yes, hydraulic steering is the cat's meow and is well worth the investment if you can afford it)