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Author Topic:   Yamaha 50/60-HP Four-Stroke Now EFI
jimh posted 09-25-2005 09:45 AM ET (US)   Profile for jimh   Send Email to jimh  
Yamaha announced recently they have revised their 50-HP and 60-HP four-stroke outboards. The most notable changes are:

--increased displacement. The 50-HP motor now uses the 1.0-liter displacement (996 cc) block of the 60-HP.

--electronic fuel injection. Carburetors have been replaced with multi-port electronic fuel injection. The engine is run by a microprocessor controller with numerous sensors.

--new tiller handle and electronically controlled variable trolling speed are available. An UP/DOWN switch on the tiller handle adjusts engine-trolling speeds (between 620 and 900 RPM) in 50 RPM increments. The lower unit has been designed with a splash plate to enhance back trolling performance. This should be very attractive for fishermen.

The weight of these four-stroke engines is moderate. At 237-lbs they are heavier than a Yamaha two-stroke (189-lbs), but lighter than an Evinrude E-TEC (240-lbs) of the same horsepower.

These engines are ultra low emission and meet United States EPA regulation for 2006. California residents should contact Barbra Streisand to see if it is okay to use these near her home.

tarbaby posted 09-25-2005 03:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for tarbaby  Send Email to tarbaby     
I have one! It is a 2005 Yamaha 60 hp EFI 4 stroke on my 15' and it is flawless. I have found it hard to run more than 5 or 6 gallons through it in a day. Out of the hole isn't as strong as my old Merc 70 but it flys once she is on top of the water. It starts like you would expect it to. The telltale stream is the loudest thing you hear at idle. I was out this morning and I now have 27 hours on it with not a problem. I need to get my GPS on board and I will give you speeds. I would recommend this engine to any 15' owner.
17 bodega posted 09-25-2005 11:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
Jim.. you know better than to mess with Barbara.. Careful or she'll sick Oprah on you ... and you don't want to make Oprah mad!
LHG posted 09-26-2005 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Yamaha finally stopped using the old 50HP Mercury/Yamaha joint venture engine of the mid 90's. Mercury last used it in 2002, and replaced it with their own new engines, 30-60HP. On that engine, Mercury made the short block components, and Yamaha made the cylnderheads and valve train. This is why it's displacement was different from their 60, which is the 100% Mecury built powerhead, which Mercury brought out in 2003, with all 30-60's being EFI's. The 2005 Yamaha 60 EFI that Tarbaby has is a Merc powerhead, the same motor that the 150 Whalers come with.

When Yamaha first starting using these 30, 40 & 60 HP powerheads from Mercury, they only offered them as carbureted. My guess is that this was some arrangement with Mercury, who initially kept the EFI technology on theirs only.

Now, all these engines are being made in China, and all are EFI

tarbaby posted 09-26-2005 02:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for tarbaby  Send Email to tarbaby     
Mine was made in Japan. F60TLRD Date of manufacture: 02/05

jimh posted 09-26-2005 06:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have never seen any evidence that Yamaha is selling any four-stroke engine that they bought from Mercury. However, I am completely open to presentation of any verifiable material that indicates that.

Considering the state of the relationship between Yamaha and Mercury, it is hard to imagine that Yamaha is buying engines from Mercury. Before I can swallow that pill, I'll need a glass of milk and honey.

LHG posted 09-26-2005 06:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Honda never admitted they were buying lower units from Mercury either. Yamaha developed the 75-115 engines, and Mercury developed the 30-60 engines.

In 2003, Mercury announced completely new, EFI 4-strokes, 30-60 HP, 100% made by Mercury (Smartcraft is a clue), and not by joint venture, which was announced as terminated. In 2003, Yamaha announced the EXACT same engines, but carbureted, and not in the 50 HP size. The 2003 Yamaha 50 still had the old specs of the discontinued Merc 50 4-stroke, which WAS a joint venture engine.

Yamaha, like Honda, just doesn't admit they buy product from Mercury, probably some confidentiality agreement.

It seems that the likelihood that Yamaha would independently design and bring out the identical engine as Mercury, in a lower tech carbed version, makes no sense at all. Remember were talking powerheads here, not carbs, mid-sections, lower units and cowlings. Mercury powerheads manufactured by Yamaha do not have Smartcraft.

So, we know:

1. Mercury makes the powerheads for these EFI, Smartcraft enabled engines and they are not joint venture engines. Further evidence of this is Mercury announcing the entire production of these would be shifted to China.

2. Yamaha just happens to sell an identical engine, with identical specs, introduced the same year.
Unless we are dealing with massive corporate spying and patent infringement, it's hard to assume they make this powerhead.

3. It is not a joint venture engine, since that was dismantled a while ago.

4. So where does Yamaha get this engine? At the time of it's intrduction, Mercury offered it in EFI, but Yamaha only got inferior carbs. This indicates some part of a deal, again.

My guess is that when the 75 -115 powerhead deal is discontinued, so will the 30-60 HP powerhead deal. Both will come out with their own engines? I know Mercury has the Verado block in store for it's 75-115 models. They should be a lot quieter running than the old Yamaha blocks.

jimh posted 09-26-2005 10:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Larry--What I find odd is that the entire world knows that Mercury buys complete power heads from Yamaha for the 75/90/115 engines, yet, somehow, no one seems to know anything about this other arrangement where Yamaha is buying complete power heads from Mercury for 50 and 60 HP engines. Can you point to any other source which can corroborate this?
SIM posted 09-27-2005 08:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for SIM  Send Email to SIM     
There were a few engines that Merc and Yamaha shared. Both ways. The new F50-60 is definetly not one of them.

F75-90-115 Yamaha's sold to Merc powerheads only. All components, mid section gearcase is Merc.

F225 Yamaha to Merc. All Yamaha except for the engine cowling.

New F50-60 EFI Yamaha. All Yamaha.

There was lots of sharing back and forth on the smaller 4-strokes. Easy way to tell is look at the CDI boxes. If they are labeled Motorola its Merc....If it says Mitsubishi.....its a Yamaha.

Right from the horses mouth......the Merc\Yamaha love affair is offically over :^)


fourdfish posted 09-27-2005 10:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
Larry-- What is it that you cannot accept the fact that other manufactures beside Mercury can produce engines with the same or better technology. You always come up with some kind face saving fact which you cannot verify to promote Mercury. You don't have any evidence, but you say stuff anyway! Yamaha makes a good product, unfortunatley it is not an American company. The Japanese have been selling Americans good products in all areas. Get over it!
17 bodega posted 09-27-2005 01:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
This was also news to me - I was going to try to do some research on the matter. LHG's comment was the first I've heard of this joint venture, so I assumed it was correct.

Peter? Can you help us out on this one? Bigshot/Judge?

17 bodega posted 09-27-2005 01:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
Just checked under the cowling and the small black box near the front of the motor is Mitsubishi. My manufacure date is 11/02 and it is a carburated engine.
LHG posted 09-27-2005 02:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
I have no information at all, and my comments are only speculation, but the facts seem to indicate I am correct. Maybe not, who knows. I will ask my Mercury-Yamaha dealer what they know. I do know one thing, that Mercury is not getting these 30-60HP engines from Yamaha! The 30 & 40 HP engines are also included here. (Note for 2006 Mercury switched the 30 HP to a lighter wieght Tohatsu joint venture engine, without Smartcraft - which is telling).

When someone gives me an alternative answer to point #2 from my above post, maybe we can figure things out. But nobody has yet. Remember, BOTH companies brought out IDENTICALLY spec'ed engines, (30, 40, & 60) in 2003 model year, Mercury with EFI and Yamaha with only Carbs. How did this happen, considering the Mercury engines are 100% designed and made by Mercury, and have Smartcraft? In 2003 Mercury dropped the Joint Venture 50 in favor of their new line, but Yamaha did not. Beginning in 1994, Mercury made the short blocks for those engines, that we know, shipping them to Japan for incorporation into the Yamaha 50, and Yamaha shipping the cylinder heads to Mercury over here, for the Merc version. This is the engine JimH just mentioned has now been dropped, as Mercury did 3 years ago. Now the "new" Yamaha EFI 50 (which came out in 2005, not 2006) has the same specs as the Mercury EFI 50 of 2003 and later. What's up here? I'm betting ten to one that Mercury is still making the blocks for these Yamaha engines, or Yamaha is the world's best copycat. I have never seen an identical engine, independently designed and manufactured on different continents, brought to market at exactly the same time.

Instead of calling me an idiot, someone should explain why both brands are selling the same powerhead.

Incidentally, my guess is that Yamaha kept the older 50 in their lineup longer than Merc did because they had a whole bunch of left-over cylinder head and valve trains from the join venture and needed to use them up. Until the new Mercury 60 4-stroke came out in 2003, Yamaha never had a 60 in their lineup. Funny about that

SIM posted 09-27-2005 03:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for SIM  Send Email to SIM     
And to confuse things a recent Yamaha service school, I had the task of tearing down a powerhead and cylinder head off a F115. Any one know what Ford Motor Co part numbers look like? Guess what is cast into the cylinder heads on the F75-90 and F115? Ford part numbers.
Confirmed it with the instructor that Ford and Yamaha are sleeping together....yuc yuc... :^)


17 bodega posted 09-27-2005 04:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
How's this for a dumb question? Is the Mercury marine affiliated with The Mercury that is the Ford Motor Company... you know the ones who make the Sable?
LHG posted 09-27-2005 04:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Boy, that is really interesting. Ford is shipping Yamaha cylinder heads to Japan, so they can assemble the 75-115 powerheads and send them back to Mercury in Fond du Lac.

It does make some sense, however, that some of this 4-stroke technology is being secretly manufactured by automotive companies. I guess that's why Honda and Suzuki got into the game.

Bodega - yes that's a dumb question. You're kidding, aren't you?

Still waiting to know how Yamaha's 30-60's are the same bore and stroke as the Mercurys. Maybe they're both buying them from FORD!

17 bodega posted 09-27-2005 04:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
The only dumb question is the one you don't ask. -- quote from someone real smart.
LHG posted 09-27-2005 06:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Well I guess we now know why Yamaha calls their 4-strokes, with components by Ford, the "F" series. That's another secret/confidentiality deal that Yamaha doesn't talk about.
SIM posted 09-27-2005 06:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for SIM  Send Email to SIM     
I can not remember the exact Ford car model, but it was a "HO" version of one model. It actually had a Yamaha engine in it. No joke......I have had phone calls for parts for it twice now. I think it was a Taurus HO or something like that....

No kidding on the Ford part number on the cylinder head. I think manufactuers share compnents or sub out certain assemblies more then you would think. Nothing wrong with that I guess.


Peter posted 09-27-2005 06:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I don't think its any secret that Ford and Yamaha have a relationship. Yamaha used to make the 3.0 or 3.3L V6 motor for the SHO Ford Taurus. I'm not positive about this but I think the 3.3L V6 that forms the F200/F225/F250 may be a variant of the SHO motor.

It is my understanding that Yamaha makes the 4.4L V8 motor for the Volvo XC90 (an indirect Ford product). By the way, I have my money on a bet that a version of this 4.4L V8 is probably going to be fliped onto its axis and turned into the first naturally aspirated V8 4-stroke outboard churning out up to 325+ HP at 30 GPH.

Bodega - I'm sorry I can't provide information on the Yamaha/Merc 4-strokes but I really haven't paid much attention to them. If someone had the endurance, perhaps they could sift through the evidence of the Mercury ITC anti-dumping action to find the answers as I'm sure the gory details of these relationships are all there.

LHG posted 09-27-2005 07:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
I'm still waiting for ANYBODY who knows why the Yamaha 40-60 4-strokes have the identical bore, stroke and HP of the Mercury EFI engines of 2003. Does anybody really know the answer?

I do know that Mercury has taken a lot of flack for transferring the production of these engines to their new plant in China. Perhaps that saves on shipping some of the powerheads into Japan?

jimh posted 09-27-2005 08:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
What are the bore and stroke of the 2006 Yamaha 50- and 60-HP four-strokes? This data seems to be omitted from the specifications on the website.
tarbaby posted 09-27-2005 08:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for tarbaby  Send Email to tarbaby     
My 2005 Yamaha 60 hp 4 stroke EFI specs:

Displacement: 996.0 cm3 (60.78 cu. in)
Bore X Stroke: 65.0 X 75.0 mm (2.56 X 2.95 in)


jimh posted 09-27-2005 11:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Very interesting--identical to the Mercury engine:

[From Mercury Marine website; 60-HP four-stroke specifications]

Cylinder/Configuration: 4 (in-line)
Displacement (CID/cc): 60.8/995
Bore & Stroke (in): 2.56 x 2.95
Bore & Stroke (mm): 65 x 75

That is awfully curious...

17 bodega posted 09-27-2005 11:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
With all the swapping discussed here, the notion that either Merc or Yamaha produced a motor virtually identical to the other isn't out of the realm of possibility. To really get some answers to our inquiring minds, one could dissasemble both seemingly identical motors and compare the two. Weight, size, placement of of parts. Isn't that what motor companies do to one anothers product as a regular practice anyway? Trade secrets have been stolen since the beginning of time.

The simple way to find out is to talk to some mechanics who have torn into these motors. They would probably know how similar they are.

jimh posted 09-28-2005 12:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Shay--look at the castings for the block. Are the cast-in legends in English or in Kata-Kanji alphabets?
tarbaby posted 09-28-2005 10:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for tarbaby  Send Email to tarbaby     
I have looked underneath the cowling and I see all the added parts on the engine are made in Japan. The block has markings that I can see that say " Y-1 " and it is cast in the block.
There are other numbers that seem to be etched in the block.
Nothing in there that says "made in in Japan or USA".
Anyone else know more about this?


LHG posted 09-28-2005 01:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
It's been no secret that since 1994 Mercury made the short blocks for these Mercury and Yamaha 50's. So it would certainly seem that this has been continued, even after the joint venture ceased. Mercury designed and developed THEIR OWN replacement for the Joint Venture 50, and brought them out as advanced 30-60 EFI's in 2003, ion 3 and 4 cylinder models, ceasing to use the joint venture block anymore. So it would be completely reasonable to assume that Yamaha continued with Mercury, buying the newly designed long blocks from them, but with Mercury not letting them use EFI, so that Mercury could get some benefit from their new model first. This has actually been the case, as most have considered the EFI Mercs better than the same carbed Yamaha. Now the Yamaha's are all getting the EFI system, (I assume each manufacturer's own design - since Mercury wouldn't want Yamaha to have the EFI integrated proprietary Smartcraft) so they should be equal.

I don't see what the big deal is here. Almost to a person, the owners of these engines really like them, both brands, and they are considered the best in this HP range. Just pick your color of brand loyalty. They are lightweight and reliable. The Suzuki 60 weighs in at 360# vs the Merc/Yamaha at 250. The previous joint venture 50HP engine was considered excellent also

Nevek posted 08-04-2011 10:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Nevek  Send Email to Nevek     
[Revived a thread after being dormant for six years. Please start a new thread.--jimh]

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