posted 09-26-2005 09:04 AM ET (US)            

There have been some magazine boat tests of the Verado. Some of these are available on-line. Powerboat Reports (PR) has tested the Verado twice in the past year or so.

In one test, PR declared the 250-HP Verado the winner, in spite of a $5,000 price disadvantage compared to an E-TEC or a Yamaha four-stroke. In another test comparing a 250-HP Verado and a Suzuki four-stroke, the Suzuki was the winner.

One problem with reports of fuel consumption on the Verado: the people at Powerboat Reports stated that in their measurements they used an external fuel flow meter to gauge the fuel flow on the other engines, but for the Verado they relied on its internal fuel flow meter. This is a flaw in the test technique. It is a basic requirement that if you measure something, you ought to use the same measuring instrument on all the tests.

posted 09-27-2005 02:52 PM ET (US)         

Do we really think a 2.6 liter Verado can only put out 275HP? Can a 1.7 liter Verado put out more than 175 HP?
How easy is it to add cubes and HP. Almost every manufacturer begins at smaller cubes, and then increases them on same block. These things have real potential.

I think the 4-stroke buyers are not interested in super quiet running and performance will continue to buy the Japanese products. Are the Japanese companies working on supercharging, incidentally?
Anybody know? I can't imagine they'd go so low as to copy Mercury.

posted 09-27-2005 04:18 PM ET (US)            

If it were so easy to add HP to the Verado platform, why didn't they just come out with a 525 lb 250 HP 4-cylinder Verado right from the start. If they had done that, they might have had something worth talking about in terms of performance. If they turned up the boost on the 4-cylinder Verados to achieve 250 HP, where would that leave all of the early adopters of the 6 cylinder versions? Why would Brunswick go through all the trouble of redesigning their boats to accomodate the extra weight?

All outboard motor manufacturers, except for Mercury, seem to adhere to the age old notion that there is "no replacement for displacement". Suzuki had an opportunity to go the supercharged route with its new 150/175s and it opted for displacement. I wonder why? Supercharging certainly isn't necessary for either 2 or 4-stroke outboards that have sufficient displacement. These motors are not used in stop and go traffic.

posted 09-27-2005 07:02 PM ET (US)            

Well, I certainly agree with that to a certain degree, but I'm not so sure that it translates into a solid marketing strategy. Afterall, everyone would want to test drive a Maybach, or a Lotus, or a Ferrari if that were available to them at an auto show, but I don't see any of those companies selling a lot of vehicles. As for being "the guy that can afford the best" - well I guess that attitude does come with owning a Whaler too...

"performance minded buyers don't care much about fine tuning economy at wide open throttle. They just want to win and go fast"

True too, but hey, boating isn't all about performance - not for the majority of the boat buying public. Again, that mindset is going down this narrow market path, and a strong argument can be made (dependent on what type of racing is done) that it's not the winner in all kinds of races - especially where fuel usage might be a factor.

I'm not bashing Verado - I like it. I just think that a lot of what Mercury has been doing is performance minded - it goes with their strong heritage for performance. We Americans scratch our heads sometimes about this because everything is a pissing contest.

But a strong wind is blowing on the fuel price front. And much of the "economy" arguments and marketing is carrying over strongly from the automobile industry. True, most who can afford a Verado aren't affected by this as much, but by the time you're a teenager, most guys have figured out that it's tough to pee into the wind....

The trouble is that Mercury should have developed a competitive engine at a similar displacement/weight as the competition, and THEN added a supercharger for buyers who might want that as an option. THAT would have been the home run that they needed to hit. As it stands now, I think that Mercury left the door open more than just a crack for the competition, including Evinrude with a non 4-stroke option.

I've seen ONE Verado powered boat on the water this year that I don't know for sure was not a demo or company-owned boat. It was on a 220 Dauntless in Grand Haven this spring. All of the other Verado powerplants I've seen were in showrooms or on Demo boats (for the Boston Whaler Rendezvous). To balance this report, I haven't seen ANY E-Tec powered boats on the water yet (Demo OR privately owned). I've seen many Suzuki 4-strokes and Yamaha 4 strokes, however, and I'm seeing a lot of the Johnson 4 strokes around.

Perhaps it will just take some time for these motors to trickle down to the local boating population. It's quite possible that one of these new motors may find its way onto my transom in the next year or so...but I'd like to test drive a boat powered with an E-Tec first.

posted 09-27-2005 08:39 PM ET (US)            

Also, these Verado engines need to wind up to 6,400 revolutions per minute of the crankshaft to get to their top boat speeds, and at those kinds of reciprocating motion speeds--1,000 revolutions per minute faster than most other outboard engines--any vibration is going to be a problem.

As for these continued rumors about more horsepower from the Verado, I have grown tired of the wait. This talk has been circulating for years--literally for over two years!--and still nothing has come of it. As I said six months ago, if Mercury has more horsepower for the Verado, let's see it, please; we are all weary of just hearing about it.

The observation that the Digital Throttle and Shift is a big selling point is very cogent. The problem is that this sort of technology is adaptable to any engine, and I believe that the new Honda and Yamaha motors will be offering it, at least the throttle control part.

The power steering is interesting, but OMC was offering power steering (which ran off engine power, not electrical power) years ago. I can see where a boat rigged with twin 250-HP motors (or triple motors) could be a bear to steer, but for the average Boston Whaler owner, power-assist steering is not a deal maker or a deal breaker.

posted 09-27-2005 09:03 PM ET (US)         

Supposedly there is a 340 HP racing division version in the works, but they're still getting the bugs out of it. I can't think of any recreational engine where the racing versions don't put out more HP.

There are also some hotter performance Optimax's being developed, I understand.

Everyone seems to be ignoring Peter Morgan's post where he indicates the Verado has the BEST fuel economy where most people use their engines. It seems the only shot people can take at the Verado is full throttle economy, if anybody cares about that, and 50# of weight over the other 4-strokes. Talk about marketing hype, who really cares except the Evinrude lobby?

Why is everyone so threatened by the Verado that they have to blast it constantly? It's the best outboard on the market today, period. Nothing else has technology that even comes close. Why don't we give Boston Whaler a chance to sell a few Whalers with Verado power and see how they are received. So far, Verado owners here seem happier than the E-tec owners here, with fewer problems.

I can't think of any Verado fans picking apart the intimate details of the Evinrudes, like the Evinrude people are doing to the Verado. Talk about "looting". No engine is a perfect solution, and one just has to decide for themselves which features mean the most for their application.

posted 09-27-2005 09:43 PM ET (US)            

I am brand loyal to Honda and think they make a fantasatic product but I am not going to say that Honda makes the best outboard on the market today. It will only provoke others to say that it is inferior to the brand they are loyal to.

posted 09-27-2005 10:08 PM ET (US)            

I have heard a lot about Yamaha, Evinrude and Suzuki repowers here. Given the volume of the reports, hearing a few nits to pick aren't all that unusual. I expect there to be some nits from Verado owners as well, however as I said before, there don't seem to be too many here. Any problems on the new boats are probably promptly handled at the dealer, given the fact that Whaler has an excellent dealer distribution network.

posted 09-28-2005 02:17 PM ET (US)         

But I do think the Verado offers the highest technology today, as my next sentence indicates, which what *I* meant by "best". This produces the quietest 4-stroke running sound, that many have confirmed, and excellent 4-stroke throttle response. The DTS controls, Smartcraft instrumentation, super smooth steering, pedestal transom mount, and supercharger are all features that nobody else yet has. Even the Revolution-4 props that these engines often run are in a class by themselves. They are so far out they look like no other 4 blade prop.

I think there are several Verado owners here already, probably posting more in the Post classic section. 320 Outrage and 305 owners come to mind, and they seem to be really getting popular on other new Whaler sales also. One of these days, I will join that select group too.

If you, reading this, were to buy a new Boston Whaler, would you get a 4-stroke or Optimax on it? Mercury is saying that by next year, 85% of you would opt for 4-stroke, either conventional EFI or supercharged EFI Verado.

posted 09-28-2005 07:03 PM ET (US)            

"There is no no shortage of Verado's hanging on the back of go-fast bass boats in certain parts of the country and these guys could give a hoot less that it gets "X" amount less fuel economy at WOT than an E-tec, Opti, or whatever."

posted 10-05-2005 09:33 PM ET (US)            

In POWERBOAT REPORTS (October 2005) the editors gush about the fuel economy of a DONZI 35 with a pair of 250-HP Verado outboards. The boat runs most efficiently at 4,500 RPM (nearly 40-MPH) where it gets 1.6-MPG. They compare this to several other large center consoles they tested:

DONZI 35, Verado 250's = 1.6 MPG at 40 MPH
PURSUIT 3480, Yamaha 250's = 1.3 MPG at 40 MPH
PALMETTO CUSTOM 33, Yamaha 300 HPDI's = 0.9 MPG
SEA-VEE 34, 250-HP Suzuki = 1.3 MPG
HYDRA-SPORTS VECTOR 3300, Yamaha 250's = 1.1 MPG

But the problem with this comparison is there is no basis to compare the engines as each is on a different boat.

TRAILER BOATS reports on an ANGLER 2900CC wth a pair of 250-HP Verado engines. This boat tops out at 2.2 MPG at 31 MPH. The editors do note that the rigged up Verado engines add 1,400 pounds to the transom. That is a bit much for most Boston Whalers to handle.

The best comparison was when the Verado was tested head-to-head with two other engines all on the same boat. There it was bested by the naturally aspirated and larger displacement Suzuki for best fuel economy.

posted 10-05-2005 11:43 PM ET (US)            

I guess you need to decide what boat speed is the most important for you. If you think you'll be running 40-MPH all the time, compare fuel consumption at those speeds. If you think you'll cruise at 25-MPH, compare fuel consumption there.

posted 10-06-2005 01:36 PM ET (US)         

After just plain old brand loyalty, I think ease of operation, and quiet running at cruising speed and the MOST important factors, since that is what you live with hour after hour. Next would come reliability (something that can really wreck your boating enjoyment) and convenience of service access. Then performance and engine appearance, and finally this close match in fuel economy at the speeds you normaly operate.

posted 10-07-2005 03:46 AM ET (US)            

Boat: Anytec 750 SP aluminium boat, 7.50 m x 2.26 m, weight 950 kg without outboard, weight with outboard and 4 persons onboard approx 1600 kg. Motors: E-TEC 250, Verado 250, Suzuki 250 and Yamaha 250.

posted 10-09-2005 07:34 AM ET (US)            

The problem I find with the test is that its hard to judge the motor's actual peformance because the results are masked by the use of different propellers on each motor. While the magazines like to do their testing with propellers from the manufacturer, the problem is that there are significant differences in performance from propeller to propeller. Some are designed to run well at high speeds while others are configured for cruising or general all around performance. This should be easy to understand simply by looking at Jim's propeller test report, see continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001019.html .

In the case of the E-TEC, it uses a 14 1/2D x 24P Raker, a highly raked propeller typically used on light weight bass boats. In the case of the Verado, it is equipped with a 14 3/4D x 21P Mirage Plus, a propeller you might expect to find on a cruising boat such as a Whaler, but not on a bass boat. The Suzuki was equipped with a 16D x 24.5P and the Yamaha had a 14 1/2D x 23P Pro Series propeller. I'm not very familiar with the propellers used by the Suzuki and the Yamaha but the Yamaha Pro Series propeller is said to be a bass boat propeller meant for running the motor high on the transom and at high trim. Interestingly, the Yamaha appears to be mounted the lowest of all of the motors according to the report from PJM but yet achieved the highest top speed.

The Verado 250 was the slowest motor with the highest fuel consumption (26.9 GPH v. 22.3 GPH for the lowest) at WOT of the bunch tested and I have to wonder whether the Mirage hampered its top end when put up against bass boat propellers. To use a near equivalent propeller to the Raker or Yamaha Prop Series, the testers should have used a Mercury Tempest Plus I believe but that probably would have probably reduced its cruising economy.

posted 10-09-2005 10:24 AM ET (US)            

The influence of the propeller on fuel consumption is a major factor. In the test data mentioned by PJM, the Verado has the best fuel economy around 30-MPH. I think this is due to the MIRAGEplus propeller being used.

posted 10-11-2005 09:06 AM ET (US)            

UNLEADED GASOLINE = $2.71-gallon
DIESEL = $3.14

posted 10-11-2005 12:06 PM ET (US)            

The prices you posted are for on-road diesel (road taxes paid). Off road diesel can be run legally in boats. Currently I'm paying 2.54 a gallon for the winter blend (on-road is 3.16 here).

posted 10-11-2005 06:51 PM ET (US)            

UNLEADED GASOLINE = $2.71-gallon
DIESEL = $3.14

At this sort of pricing differential (15-percent premium for diesel), the fuel economy on a diesel engine has to be rather much better than a gasoline engine to make up the added costs."

Even so, I don't think it is the price of fuel keeping those diesel powered boat off Lake Michigain during the winter.

posted 10-20-2005 12:42 PM ET (US)            

Plotman has it right--I think all the refineries in North America are optimized to produce gasoline, and production of diesel, kerosene, and home heating oil are all by-products. Because demand for gasoline is not very seasonal, they are cranking out gasoline all the time. The amount of diesel, keresene, and home heating oil is therefore about the same no matter what time of year. When demand rises in the winter, there is no extra supply available, because these products are by-products. In summer, there is not much demand, so lower prices.

posted 10-20-2005 01:04 PM ET (US)            

David is 100% correct. Another factor is that the diesel sold in the winter (at least up here) is a different blend than that sold in the summer. My understanding is that this blend is fundamentally more expensive to produce as it uses more expensive #1 fuel oil plus additional additives...

-WS

posted 10-20-2005 02:24 PM ET (US)            

"When you see a Verado powered boat, everybody comes around and looks, and with their premium pricing, everybody knows this is a guy who can afford the best."

Oh my God...now I understand why everybody hasn't been coming around and looking at my Yamaha four stroke and muttering to themselves, 'Hmmmm, wow, this is a guy who can afford the best.'

Man oh man oh man...there's really a different world out there... ;-)

posted 10-20-2005 05:20 PM ET (US)            

A majority of the larger new Boston Whalers in the yard had Verados on the transom. There was also a Verado on the back of a new 180 Dauntless.

When discussing repower options for my 1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy, the unanimous consensus among the shop's staff and ownership was for a 200 or 225 E-TEC.

posted 10-25-2005 11:26 AM ET (US)            

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