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Author Topic:   Towing a 21 Outrage w/ a V8 Ford Explorer

Scott W posted 10-31-2005 09:50 PM ET (US)
I am thinking about going from an 18 Dauntless to a 21 Outrage. I currently tow my boat about 35 miles back and fourth to the lake and get about 10-12 MPG at 70 MPH. Has anyone used a 2004 Ford Explorer as a tow vehicle with a 21 Outrage and what were the results?
Backlash posted 11-01-2005 08:20 AM ET (US)
Scott,
I've towed my 21' Walkaround for years with a 1999 Ford Explorer V-8, AWD, and the factory tow package. It does a decent job and I typically get 10.5 MPG at 60-65 MPH. The cruise control holds nicely at these speeds even with the air on. I normally tow my boat several hundred miles. Due to the AWD I averaged only 15.5 MPG when not towing! The factory tow package is critical as it gives you the lower 3.73 (I believe) rear end and transmission cooler.
Having said that, I would not want to tow anything bigger than the Walkaround with this vehicle. I estimate my boat/trailer combination is just over 5,000#. If you are only trailering 35 miles one way you will not have any problems.
Steve
djahncke posted 11-01-2005 09:31 PM ET (US)

Scott,
You can tell if your 2004 Explorer has the factory towing package by the hitch receiver and trailer electrical connection. An Explorer of that vintage with the towing package has the larger class III receiver and has the large round electrical connector. An Explorer without the package has the smaller class II reciver and the flat four pin electrical connector.
-Don
26Out99 posted 11-03-2005 07:40 PM ET (US)
Make sure you are running Mercon 5 (synthetic) in the transmission and regularly change the tranny fluid. I used to tow a Mastercraft with my V8 Explorer that had the factory tow package. The V8 has the "truck" transmission (ie. F250 class) versus a lighter passenger car tranny that comes with the V6 model Explorers. However, be advised, when my tranny went kaput at 75,000 the shop said "we call them Ford Exploders" cause they all blow trannys in the 65K to 80K time frame. Great job on the rebuild, but they would not give me the std. 5 year warranty if I towed. I haven't towed ever since.
Buckda posted 11-04-2005 12:47 PM ET (US)
Re: the 85,000 mile exploder myth.
I have more than 87,000 miles on my Explorer; I drive more than 240 miles a week for work and drive 180 miles per weekend, minimum. I have a V-6 Explorer WITHOUT the tow package and tow my 18' Outrage.
There are no signs of weekness in the transmission. I change it at 45,000 mile intervals with synthetic fluid.
I would recommend the V-8 version for towing, however, since mine "struggles" from time to time with the weight.
I have the 240 HP V-6 with 3.5:1 rear axle ratio, and am lucky to get 21 MPG on the highway (that's at about 60-65 MPH). I normally run between 70 and 75 on the highway and more regularly get about 18 MPG. 15 in the city, 11-13 MPG when towing the Outrage at 65 MPH.
My understanding is that the V-8 numbers aren't very far off this sorry economy, so the V-8 seems like a decent upgrade for not too big of an economy penalty.
The 2002-2005 Explorers are definitely pigs in terms of fuel consumption when compared to the GM equivalent. The 2006 is supposed to address this problem.
I am very happy with my vehicle and the maintenance record - it's been a good experience (other than the depreciation!).
Dave
outragesteve posted 11-05-2005 06:18 PM ET (US)
I tow my 89/22'Outrage with a 2004 Ranger: Ext. cab, FX4, auto factory tow pkg (4:10 Posi) 4.0 litre eng. I love the rig, except mileage is lousy. Without the boat, 15-17 max. With boat, about 12-14. The power and ramp manners arew great: I have never had to use 4WD to haul out. Just make sure your trailer brakes are good: I'm switching to discs soon.
Tollyfamily posted 11-07-2005 12:43 AM ET (US)
The trans only has problems if you tow in overdrive.
Dan
fno posted 11-13-2005 04:21 AM ET (US)
Scott, it\f it's a new 21' that you are talking about, they weigh in at close to 5000 lbs with a full tank of fuel,anchor,USCG gear. I don't know how many 500-100 mile trips I would try, but to get to the boat ramp you should be OK
Buckda posted 12-07-2005 05:05 PM ET (US)
Just a quick update. My Explorer is just out of the shop from it's 90,000 mile service (92,228 miles in three years!).
Although the comment from the service manager was mildly unsettling ('your Explorer is in remarkably good condition and there are no problems for its mileage'), I still have to report that I'm happy with this vehicle.
I've not had to replace the rear end, like I've heard about elsewhere on the Web. I've not had any transmission problems (and I've towed probably 20-22,000 miles). All of this is good news, since I bought the vehicle at 0% financing for 5 years...meaning it won't be fully paid for until it has about 150K miles on it!
swist posted 12-08-2005 07:56 AM ET (US)
I was within a couple of seconds of signing for a V8 explorer (AWD) when I found out that the non-towing gas mileage was so abysmal. V8 or no V8, this is a mid-size SUV, not an Excursion or an Expedition! Your non-towing time is still likely going to far exceed your towing time,
gf posted 12-08-2005 11:42 AM ET (US)

What do you consider abysmal gas mileage for a mid-size SUV? Which vehicles are you comparing the Explorer too?
My experience has been that the 2002+ Explorer with the 4.6 liter V8 actually gets better mileage than those with the 4.0 liter V6 and better than most f the other comparable mid-saize SUVs.
The updated 4.6 liter V8 in the new 2006 models is supposed to even better on gas.
My wife's 2002 Ford Explorer XLT V8 has had several problems during our 38 months and 77,000 miles of ownership, but poor gas mileage is not one of the things I would complain about. It averages around 17 or 18 MPG and we saw 21 MPG on the highway on a trip this summer.
We have friends with a GMC Envoy XL with the 4.2 liter inline 6 and they average around 15 MPG. Other friends have a newer Toyota 4Runner with the V6 and they average 16 MPG.
swist posted 12-08-2005 10:22 PM ET (US)
I would consider well under 20 mpg on the highway pretty bad for a midsize SUV. My 4.3L V6 Explorer XLT 2002 did 20-21 on the highway (65 mph). The person trying sell me the V8 was a friend so I believe her (as opposed to a salesman!) - she said she got around 16, and closer to 10 when towing a 22' boat.
That is also consistent with the report earlier in this thread.
Backlash posted 12-09-2005 09:01 AM ET (US)
I just hit 100,000 miles on my 1999 Explorer (5.0 liter) V-8 AWD and the original transmission is doing fine.
My overall average for this 100,000 miles is 15.5 MPG which, I believe, can be attributed to the AWD. I would expect a non-AWD V-8 to better this by 2-3 MPG. As stated before, I average 10.5 MPG when towing my Walkaround at 60-65 MPH.
On the plus side - the AWD turns this vehicle into a real beast in rain or snow; no fishtailing and it tracks like it's on rails.
Landlocked posted 12-19-2005 02:22 PM ET (US)
My wifes 97 explorer V-6 AWD has 190,000 miles on it. Given the miles we've gotten out of it and the price we paid used - ($10,000 with 92,000 miles on it) I can't complain too much but in the last year and a half, I have replaced the transfer case and had the transmission rebuilt twice. The second transfer case is giving us problems now.
When I spoke with the transmission shop, they told me that the tranny on it was actually designed for a car and that I should not be towing anyting with it larger than a small utility trailer and light load for any distance.
Ll.
Buckda posted 12-19-2005 02:58 PM ET (US)
Landlocked:
How often did you replace the fluid in the transfer box? The transmission?
The 2002 manual recommends a more aggressive fluid exchange schedule for vehicles that are used for towing.
I've replaced transmission fluid 3 times in 93,000 miles (turned 93K this weekend), as well as the transfer box fluid.
The rec on the transfer box is, I think, 35,000 miles. For the transmission, it's 45,000 miles, but I do them both at 32,000 - 35,000 because I tow pretty aggressively with it, especially in the summer. In the winter, I'm in 4X4 mode quite often out at the farm where my Whaler is stored, usually running through 3-8 inches of light snow covered dirt.
Just curious if I should be paying close attention in the next year or so...
Landlocked posted 12-19-2005 03:57 PM ET (US)
I can't give you the exact interval but I know I did a pan off filter and fluid change just prior to towing the whaler to Florida a couple of years ago. I also did a second pan off fluid and filter change when the first tranny started acting up to see if that would help (it didn't)
As far as the transfer case goes, all it ever got was routine topping off - so poor maintenace may have played a role. The second case that went in in August was obviously filled at install. Other than having the fluid level checked during routine service, I haven't done anything further.
I'm hoping the problem is related to a speed sensor, Currently it seems to bind when turning sharply at low speeds in parking lots. I've had 4x4's almost exclusively for the last 20 years but this is the first fulltime version I've had. In the future, I believe the lock in lock out part time 4x4 will be my choice. Our explorer doesn't give you a choice its either full time, low or high no 2wd selector. Running 4x4 full time has to add up to more wear over time give the number of additional moving parts.
Again - I'm not slamming the Explorer. Its been a good truck. I'm just not too sure it would be my first choice as a tow vehicle. The V-8 version may be OK though if it indeed does have the truck tranny rather than a modified passenger car version.
As a side note, I once had a Ford Bronco II and that thing was built like a tank - never a problem no matter how I abused it. The same can be said for my current full size Bronco. 170,000 miles and never a problem.
Ll.
John W posted 12-19-2005 08:18 PM ET (US)
I owned a 1991 v6 Explorer for 12 years, and towed a 19' and tlater a 17' Mako with it. It was a low mileage vehicle...I sold it with 125K miles...but I never had any transmission problems. A/C was another matter entirely...
tombro posted 12-20-2005 07:44 AM ET (US)
1998 Explorer Sport here, with 192,000 miles, original tranny. Never towed anything larger than my former 150 Sport, though. They are good trucks. If I wanted to tow my current 210 Ventura, I would not consider anything smaller than an Expedition in the Ford lineup. Your boat is of a similar weight.

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Author	Topic: Towing a 21 Outrage w/ a V8 Ford Explorer
Scott W	posted 10-31-2005 09:50 PM ET (US) I am thinking about going from an 18 Dauntless to a 21 Outrage. I currently tow my boat about 35 miles back and fourth to the lake and get about 10-12 MPG at 70 MPH. Has anyone used a 2004 Ford Explorer as a tow vehicle with a 21 Outrage and what were the results?
Backlash	posted 11-01-2005 08:20 AM ET (US) Scott, I've towed my 21' Walkaround for years with a 1999 Ford Explorer V-8, AWD, and the factory tow package. It does a decent job and I typically get 10.5 MPG at 60-65 MPH. The cruise control holds nicely at these speeds even with the air on. I normally tow my boat several hundred miles. Due to the AWD I averaged only 15.5 MPG when not towing! The factory tow package is critical as it gives you the lower 3.73 (I believe) rear end and transmission cooler. Having said that, I would not want to tow anything bigger than the Walkaround with this vehicle. I estimate my boat/trailer combination is just over 5,000#. If you are only trailering 35 miles one way you will not have any problems. Steve
djahncke	posted 11-01-2005 09:31 PM ET (US) Scott, You can tell if your 2004 Explorer has the factory towing package by the hitch receiver and trailer electrical connection. An Explorer of that vintage with the towing package has the larger class III receiver and has the large round electrical connector. An Explorer without the package has the smaller class II reciver and the flat four pin electrical connector. -Don
26Out99	posted 11-03-2005 07:40 PM ET (US) Make sure you are running Mercon 5 (synthetic) in the transmission and regularly change the tranny fluid. I used to tow a Mastercraft with my V8 Explorer that had the factory tow package. The V8 has the "truck" transmission (ie. F250 class) versus a lighter passenger car tranny that comes with the V6 model Explorers. However, be advised, when my tranny went kaput at 75,000 the shop said "we call them Ford Exploders" cause they all blow trannys in the 65K to 80K time frame. Great job on the rebuild, but they would not give me the std. 5 year warranty if I towed. I haven't towed ever since.
Buckda	posted 11-04-2005 12:47 PM ET (US) Re: the 85,000 mile exploder myth. I have more than 87,000 miles on my Explorer; I drive more than 240 miles a week for work and drive 180 miles per weekend, minimum. I have a V-6 Explorer WITHOUT the tow package and tow my 18' Outrage. There are no signs of weekness in the transmission. I change it at 45,000 mile intervals with synthetic fluid. I would recommend the V-8 version for towing, however, since mine "struggles" from time to time with the weight. I have the 240 HP V-6 with 3.5:1 rear axle ratio, and am lucky to get 21 MPG on the highway (that's at about 60-65 MPH). I normally run between 70 and 75 on the highway and more regularly get about 18 MPG. 15 in the city, 11-13 MPG when towing the Outrage at 65 MPH. My understanding is that the V-8 numbers aren't very far off this sorry economy, so the V-8 seems like a decent upgrade for not too big of an economy penalty. The 2002-2005 Explorers are definitely pigs in terms of fuel consumption when compared to the GM equivalent. The 2006 is supposed to address this problem. I am very happy with my vehicle and the maintenance record - it's been a good experience (other than the depreciation!). Dave
outragesteve	posted 11-05-2005 06:18 PM ET (US) I tow my 89/22'Outrage with a 2004 Ranger: Ext. cab, FX4, auto factory tow pkg (4:10 Posi) 4.0 litre eng. I love the rig, except mileage is lousy. Without the boat, 15-17 max. With boat, about 12-14. The power and ramp manners arew great: I have never had to use 4WD to haul out. Just make sure your trailer brakes are good: I'm switching to discs soon.
Tollyfamily	posted 11-07-2005 12:43 AM ET (US) The trans only has problems if you tow in overdrive. Dan
fno	posted 11-13-2005 04:21 AM ET (US) Scott, it\f it's a new 21' that you are talking about, they weigh in at close to 5000 lbs with a full tank of fuel,anchor,USCG gear. I don't know how many 500-100 mile trips I would try, but to get to the boat ramp you should be OK
Buckda	posted 12-07-2005 05:05 PM ET (US) Just a quick update. My Explorer is just out of the shop from it's 90,000 mile service (92,228 miles in three years!). Although the comment from the service manager was mildly unsettling ('your Explorer is in remarkably good condition and there are no problems for its mileage'), I still have to report that I'm happy with this vehicle. I've not had to replace the rear end, like I've heard about elsewhere on the Web. I've not had any transmission problems (and I've towed probably 20-22,000 miles). All of this is good news, since I bought the vehicle at 0% financing for 5 years...meaning it won't be fully paid for until it has about 150K miles on it!
swist	posted 12-08-2005 07:56 AM ET (US) I was within a couple of seconds of signing for a V8 explorer (AWD) when I found out that the non-towing gas mileage was so abysmal. V8 or no V8, this is a mid-size SUV, not an Excursion or an Expedition! Your non-towing time is still likely going to far exceed your towing time,
gf	posted 12-08-2005 11:42 AM ET (US) What do you consider abysmal gas mileage for a mid-size SUV? Which vehicles are you comparing the Explorer too? My experience has been that the 2002+ Explorer with the 4.6 liter V8 actually gets better mileage than those with the 4.0 liter V6 and better than most f the other comparable mid-saize SUVs. The updated 4.6 liter V8 in the new 2006 models is supposed to even better on gas. My wife's 2002 Ford Explorer XLT V8 has had several problems during our 38 months and 77,000 miles of ownership, but poor gas mileage is not one of the things I would complain about. It averages around 17 or 18 MPG and we saw 21 MPG on the highway on a trip this summer. We have friends with a GMC Envoy XL with the 4.2 liter inline 6 and they average around 15 MPG. Other friends have a newer Toyota 4Runner with the V6 and they average 16 MPG.
swist	posted 12-08-2005 10:22 PM ET (US) I would consider well under 20 mpg on the highway pretty bad for a midsize SUV. My 4.3L V6 Explorer XLT 2002 did 20-21 on the highway (65 mph). The person trying sell me the V8 was a friend so I believe her (as opposed to a salesman!) - she said she got around 16, and closer to 10 when towing a 22' boat. That is also consistent with the report earlier in this thread.
Backlash	posted 12-09-2005 09:01 AM ET (US) I just hit 100,000 miles on my 1999 Explorer (5.0 liter) V-8 AWD and the original transmission is doing fine. My overall average for this 100,000 miles is 15.5 MPG which, I believe, can be attributed to the AWD. I would expect a non-AWD V-8 to better this by 2-3 MPG. As stated before, I average 10.5 MPG when towing my Walkaround at 60-65 MPH. On the plus side - the AWD turns this vehicle into a real beast in rain or snow; no fishtailing and it tracks like it's on rails.
Landlocked	posted 12-19-2005 02:22 PM ET (US) My wifes 97 explorer V-6 AWD has 190,000 miles on it. Given the miles we've gotten out of it and the price we paid used - ($10,000 with 92,000 miles on it) I can't complain too much but in the last year and a half, I have replaced the transfer case and had the transmission rebuilt twice. The second transfer case is giving us problems now. When I spoke with the transmission shop, they told me that the tranny on it was actually designed for a car and that I should not be towing anyting with it larger than a small utility trailer and light load for any distance. Ll.
Buckda	posted 12-19-2005 02:58 PM ET (US) Landlocked: How often did you replace the fluid in the transfer box? The transmission? The 2002 manual recommends a more aggressive fluid exchange schedule for vehicles that are used for towing. I've replaced transmission fluid 3 times in 93,000 miles (turned 93K this weekend), as well as the transfer box fluid. The rec on the transfer box is, I think, 35,000 miles. For the transmission, it's 45,000 miles, but I do them both at 32,000 - 35,000 because I tow pretty aggressively with it, especially in the summer. In the winter, I'm in 4X4 mode quite often out at the farm where my Whaler is stored, usually running through 3-8 inches of light snow covered dirt. Just curious if I should be paying close attention in the next year or so...
Landlocked	posted 12-19-2005 03:57 PM ET (US) I can't give you the exact interval but I know I did a pan off filter and fluid change just prior to towing the whaler to Florida a couple of years ago. I also did a second pan off fluid and filter change when the first tranny started acting up to see if that would help (it didn't) As far as the transfer case goes, all it ever got was routine topping off - so poor maintenace may have played a role. The second case that went in in August was obviously filled at install. Other than having the fluid level checked during routine service, I haven't done anything further. I'm hoping the problem is related to a speed sensor, Currently it seems to bind when turning sharply at low speeds in parking lots. I've had 4x4's almost exclusively for the last 20 years but this is the first fulltime version I've had. In the future, I believe the lock in lock out part time 4x4 will be my choice. Our explorer doesn't give you a choice its either full time, low or high no 2wd selector. Running 4x4 full time has to add up to more wear over time give the number of additional moving parts. Again - I'm not slamming the Explorer. Its been a good truck. I'm just not too sure it would be my first choice as a tow vehicle. The V-8 version may be OK though if it indeed does have the truck tranny rather than a modified passenger car version. As a side note, I once had a Ford Bronco II and that thing was built like a tank - never a problem no matter how I abused it. The same can be said for my current full size Bronco. 170,000 miles and never a problem. Ll.
John W	posted 12-19-2005 08:18 PM ET (US) I owned a 1991 v6 Explorer for 12 years, and towed a 19' and tlater a 17' Mako with it. It was a low mileage vehicle...I sold it with 125K miles...but I never had any transmission problems. A/C was another matter entirely...
tombro	posted 12-20-2005 07:44 AM ET (US) 1998 Explorer Sport here, with 192,000 miles, original tranny. Never towed anything larger than my former 150 Sport, though. They are good trucks. If I wanted to tow my current 210 Ventura, I would not consider anything smaller than an Expedition in the Ford lineup. Your boat is of a similar weight.