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Author Topic:   1999 OUTRAGE 21 200-HP

outrageous21 posted 04-09-2006 10:36 PM ET (US)
I just put my recently purchased 1999 OUTRAGE 21 in the water today. It only went about 35-MPH at wide open throttle (WOT). I was told it would go 45-MPH at WOT, and I was also expecting that speed. The boat is powered by a 200-HP EFI Mercury and has a SS three-blade propeller of 15.5 x 17-inch. The WOT engine speed was 5,900-RPM. It also had 125 gallons of gas aboard, which is an extra 1000-lbs, and four people on board. Is this [failure to obtain the speed which was claimed for the boat] due to the weight of all the gasoline onboard? Do I have the wrong sized propeller?
Sheila posted 04-09-2006 11:02 PM ET (US)
Is her bottom clean? What were the weather conditions?
timing posted 04-09-2006 11:11 PM ET (US)
Outrageous21,
Congrats on the recent purchase of your Whaler! I also purchased a 1999 Outrage 21 late season and absolutely love it. I'm currently in the midst of several enhancement projects.
I have a Yamaha 200 OX-66 EFI. With a 1/2-full tank of fuel and two people on board, WOT = 5,100-RPM and 40-MPH. That's turning a 17-inch pitch Yamaha prop.
Did you know the Whaler published specs in 1999 had the weight incorrect at 2,300-lbs.?
It's actually closer to 3,000-lbs. By the time you factor weights for engine and gas, the 200 is pushing 4,000-lbs of deep vee.
I'd be surprised if any small block 200-HP could push a fully loaded 1999 Outrage 21 to 45-MPH. If it had the 225- or 250-HP big block, then 45-MPH might by possible.
What does your Mercury manual say for maximum engine speed? I had 1998 Mercury 200 EFI on my Pursuit, and I'm thinking [the maximum engine speed was rated at] 5,600-RPM. If my recollection is correct, you are a bit under-proped and could perhaps move to a 19-inch pitch, likely loosing 300-400 RPM at WOT and perhaps picking up 2 to 4-MPH. That would likely leave you in the upper half of the recommended range--a good thing.
However, hole shot will sacrifice.
Another consideration: Does your 21 have bottom paint? If yes, that will knock off 1-2 mph.
Timing
outrageous21 posted 04-09-2006 11:30 PM ET (US)
The bottom is painted, but I think with half a tank of fuel and only two people I should be able to hit 40-MPH. My last boat cruised at 45-MPH and WOT was around 60-MPH. It skipped on top of the water barely touching it, so I just need to get used to the Boston Whaler boat hull. I feel like I am driving a ship, but it is much more stable. Maybe in a couple of years I will go for a 225-HP or 250-HP. I wish Mercury or Yamaha would make a 235-HP motor. I just think 225 is a little small, but 250 is a little to big. A 235 would be perfect. Thanks for the help
Rob
outrageous21 posted 04-09-2006 11:32 PM ET (US)
Oh forgot to mention weather was pretty good not much wind, and bay was just a slight chop. Bottom just painted
Peter posted 04-09-2006 11:38 PM ET (US)
Check for a spun propeller hub.
Marsh posted 04-09-2006 11:52 PM ET (US)
Gotta remember: Whalers are safe, but they're slow. If you want to go fast, get a different make.
Marsh
jgkmmoore posted 04-10-2006 12:16 AM ET (US)
Outrageous 21-- Wrong prop. Need 19-inch.
Marsh--Whalers aren't necessarily slow. Depends which hull design, what's in it/on it, HP,prop. I had a 1978 21-footer that had a 200 first, and then a newer 225 Johnson. Both engines had the grunt to hit redline with a 21" prop (63 MPH!).
Driving the boat was scary as hell in a light chop, and the covers would fly off. Not safe, but sure would surprise some bassboats! The new 21's weigh more than twice the old ones, and have the deep V. Sorta.
outrageous21 posted 04-10-2006 12:41 AM ET (US)
I think your right about the 19. Is the diameter still ok at 15.5? I also agree Whalers are not slow. My friend has a 1999 OUTRAGE 18 with a 200-HP and it runs around 57-MPH My only problem now is trying to get the dealer to give me the 19 and let me return my 17. I also just put the boat in the water so I'll have to haul it out again.
jimh posted 04-10-2006 01:14 AM ET (US)
What is the gear ratio of your gear case?
Any discussion of propeller performance MUST mention the engine's gear ratio.
Tom W Clark posted 04-10-2006 02:05 AM ET (US)
Kim,
The gear ratio of a 1999 Mercury 200 EFI is 1.87:1.
The 15-1/2" x 17" Mirage Plus was a factory recommended propeller for the 1999 Outrage 21.
With a full load of fuel and four people on board, that is a heavy load. It's going to affect the to speed, but not that much. A 17" Mirage Plus at 5900 RPM should be pushing that rig to 45 MPH.
If you are really only getting 35 MPH at 5900 RPM, something is very wrong. At that speed the calculated propeller slip is over 30 percent, which is not possible with a straight Mirage Plus.
Are you sure you were measuring speed in MPH and not knots? Did you average the speeds of two opposing speed runs to help cancel out the effects of current?
jimh posted 04-10-2006 02:05 AM ET (US)
Gasoline weighs about 6.25-lbs-per-gallon. Thus 125-gallons of fuel ought to weight
125 x 6.25 = 781-lbs
jimh posted 04-10-2006 02:10 AM ET (US)
Tom--I agree with your calculation--SLIP is very high. If that is a MIRAGEPlus it should have very low slip when calculated with its marked pitch.
Check the plastic insert in the FLO-TORQ hub. If the engine has been running hot, the exhaust temperature may have softened up the plastic.
Tom W Clark posted 04-10-2006 02:11 AM ET (US)
And are you sure that the maximum RPM today was not 4900 instead of 5900 RPM?
At 4900 RPM the 17" Mirage Plus could push a heavily laden Outrage 21 to 35 MPH with a slip factor of 17 percent, which is entirely possible.
Tom W Clark posted 04-10-2006 02:14 AM ET (US)
And I wanted to mention that it goes against my experience to expect a 3000 pound 1999 Outrage 21 with a 200 HP Mercury to go 45 MPH even under the best of circumstances.
I would expect a top speed of about 40 MPH (35 knots) or so.
assaf posted 04-10-2006 06:16 AM ET (US)
The most common engine/boat combination for this 3000lbs hull is the 3.0 liter block , and not the 2.5 (min 150 hp for that boat). I have a 225 efi on my 98 21 outrage (2500 lbs hull) and it does 48 mph at w.o.t , 1:75 gear ratio mirage 17P.
dauntlass 18 posted 04-10-2006 08:05 AM ET (US)
My 21ft Conquest with a hardtop and 200hp Optimax which I think is the same hull as the 21 Outrage will top out at 42to44mph per gps.That number is with three adults on board and 3/4 full fuel tank.The Optimax on my boat will not turn over 5100rpm max.The prop on my boat is a Mercury Mirage Plus 17P 48-18278.With the Optimax and prop combination on this boat 3000rpm to 4200 rpm is optium range to run in.
waywardsuun posted 04-28-2006 10:42 PM ET (US)
Hi, I have a 1999 outrage with a 200 optimax and a 3 blade prop. I can go 46 mph with 2 people and half a tank of gas. This is according to the GPS. Ward
bsmotril posted 04-28-2006 10:59 PM ET (US)
First of all, how are you reading the speed? The only accureate way is with a GPS. Pitot tube speedos are not very accurate unless they are the high dollar ones for torunament water skiing. If you did use a GPS, was the unit reading out in Knots, or miles per hour. 35 knots is equal to 40 mph. If the boat has been stored for a while, it is not uncommon for moisture in the tachometer to cause erroneous readings, was there still additional throttle travel on the top end? If so, the tach might be the problem and you never hit wide open throttle.
Lastly, did you start out with the motor trimmed all the way down? If not, the prop is more likely to ventilate with a heavy load and it would never hook up properly meaning it would be slipping like crazy, sucking air, and the boat speed would be way down. At 5900 rpm, that boat should be running 45-47 mph with a 17" pitch prop. BillS
outrageous21 posted 05-02-2006 03:45 AM ET (US)
I am using my garmin 178c gps to calculate the speed and it is in mph form. I ran the boat a few more times since then and with a half a tank of gas and two people it is running around 43 mph. Nothing really changed but the wieght and the boat increased speed by 8 mph. The prop is not spun but at idle speeds the prop seems to shake the engine alot is this normal?
Thanks for all your replies I think the engine just has a mind of its own.
gf posted 05-02-2006 11:16 AM ET (US)

43 MPH sounds pretty good for an Outrage 21 with a 200 HP engine, 1/2 tank of fuel and 2 people.

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Author	Topic: 1999 OUTRAGE 21 200-HP
outrageous21	posted 04-09-2006 10:36 PM ET (US) I just put my recently purchased 1999 OUTRAGE 21 in the water today. It only went about 35-MPH at wide open throttle (WOT). I was told it would go 45-MPH at WOT, and I was also expecting that speed. The boat is powered by a 200-HP EFI Mercury and has a SS three-blade propeller of 15.5 x 17-inch. The WOT engine speed was 5,900-RPM. It also had 125 gallons of gas aboard, which is an extra 1000-lbs, and four people on board. Is this [failure to obtain the speed which was claimed for the boat] due to the weight of all the gasoline onboard? Do I have the wrong sized propeller?
Sheila	posted 04-09-2006 11:02 PM ET (US) Is her bottom clean? What were the weather conditions?
timing	posted 04-09-2006 11:11 PM ET (US) Outrageous21, Congrats on the recent purchase of your Whaler! I also purchased a 1999 Outrage 21 late season and absolutely love it. I'm currently in the midst of several enhancement projects. I have a Yamaha 200 OX-66 EFI. With a 1/2-full tank of fuel and two people on board, WOT = 5,100-RPM and 40-MPH. That's turning a 17-inch pitch Yamaha prop. Did you know the Whaler published specs in 1999 had the weight incorrect at 2,300-lbs.? It's actually closer to 3,000-lbs. By the time you factor weights for engine and gas, the 200 is pushing 4,000-lbs of deep vee. I'd be surprised if any small block 200-HP could push a fully loaded 1999 Outrage 21 to 45-MPH. If it had the 225- or 250-HP big block, then 45-MPH might by possible. What does your Mercury manual say for maximum engine speed? I had 1998 Mercury 200 EFI on my Pursuit, and I'm thinking [the maximum engine speed was rated at] 5,600-RPM. If my recollection is correct, you are a bit under-proped and could perhaps move to a 19-inch pitch, likely loosing 300-400 RPM at WOT and perhaps picking up 2 to 4-MPH. That would likely leave you in the upper half of the recommended range--a good thing. However, hole shot will sacrifice. Another consideration: Does your 21 have bottom paint? If yes, that will knock off 1-2 mph. Timing
outrageous21	posted 04-09-2006 11:30 PM ET (US) The bottom is painted, but I think with half a tank of fuel and only two people I should be able to hit 40-MPH. My last boat cruised at 45-MPH and WOT was around 60-MPH. It skipped on top of the water barely touching it, so I just need to get used to the Boston Whaler boat hull. I feel like I am driving a ship, but it is much more stable. Maybe in a couple of years I will go for a 225-HP or 250-HP. I wish Mercury or Yamaha would make a 235-HP motor. I just think 225 is a little small, but 250 is a little to big. A 235 would be perfect. Thanks for the help Rob
outrageous21	posted 04-09-2006 11:32 PM ET (US) Oh forgot to mention weather was pretty good not much wind, and bay was just a slight chop. Bottom just painted
Peter	posted 04-09-2006 11:38 PM ET (US) Check for a spun propeller hub.
Marsh	posted 04-09-2006 11:52 PM ET (US) Gotta remember: Whalers are safe, but they're slow. If you want to go fast, get a different make. Marsh
jgkmmoore	posted 04-10-2006 12:16 AM ET (US) Outrageous 21-- Wrong prop. Need 19-inch. Marsh--Whalers aren't necessarily slow. Depends which hull design, what's in it/on it, HP,prop. I had a 1978 21-footer that had a 200 first, and then a newer 225 Johnson. Both engines had the grunt to hit redline with a 21" prop (63 MPH!). Driving the boat was scary as hell in a light chop, and the covers would fly off. Not safe, but sure would surprise some bassboats! The new 21's weigh more than twice the old ones, and have the deep V. Sorta.
outrageous21	posted 04-10-2006 12:41 AM ET (US) I think your right about the 19. Is the diameter still ok at 15.5? I also agree Whalers are not slow. My friend has a 1999 OUTRAGE 18 with a 200-HP and it runs around 57-MPH My only problem now is trying to get the dealer to give me the 19 and let me return my 17. I also just put the boat in the water so I'll have to haul it out again.
jimh	posted 04-10-2006 01:14 AM ET (US) What is the gear ratio of your gear case? Any discussion of propeller performance MUST mention the engine's gear ratio.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-10-2006 02:05 AM ET (US) Kim, The gear ratio of a 1999 Mercury 200 EFI is 1.87:1. The 15-1/2" x 17" Mirage Plus was a factory recommended propeller for the 1999 Outrage 21. With a full load of fuel and four people on board, that is a heavy load. It's going to affect the to speed, but not that much. A 17" Mirage Plus at 5900 RPM should be pushing that rig to 45 MPH. If you are really only getting 35 MPH at 5900 RPM, something is very wrong. At that speed the calculated propeller slip is over 30 percent, which is not possible with a straight Mirage Plus. Are you sure you were measuring speed in MPH and not knots? Did you average the speeds of two opposing speed runs to help cancel out the effects of current?
jimh	posted 04-10-2006 02:05 AM ET (US) Gasoline weighs about 6.25-lbs-per-gallon. Thus 125-gallons of fuel ought to weight 125 x 6.25 = 781-lbs
jimh	posted 04-10-2006 02:10 AM ET (US) Tom--I agree with your calculation--SLIP is very high. If that is a MIRAGEPlus it should have very low slip when calculated with its marked pitch. Check the plastic insert in the FLO-TORQ hub. If the engine has been running hot, the exhaust temperature may have softened up the plastic.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-10-2006 02:11 AM ET (US) And are you sure that the maximum RPM today was not 4900 instead of 5900 RPM? At 4900 RPM the 17" Mirage Plus could push a heavily laden Outrage 21 to 35 MPH with a slip factor of 17 percent, which is entirely possible.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-10-2006 02:14 AM ET (US) And I wanted to mention that it goes against my experience to expect a 3000 pound 1999 Outrage 21 with a 200 HP Mercury to go 45 MPH even under the best of circumstances. I would expect a top speed of about 40 MPH (35 knots) or so.
assaf	posted 04-10-2006 06:16 AM ET (US) The most common engine/boat combination for this 3000lbs hull is the 3.0 liter block , and not the 2.5 (min 150 hp for that boat). I have a 225 efi on my 98 21 outrage (2500 lbs hull) and it does 48 mph at w.o.t , 1:75 gear ratio mirage 17P.
dauntlass 18	posted 04-10-2006 08:05 AM ET (US) My 21ft Conquest with a hardtop and 200hp Optimax which I think is the same hull as the 21 Outrage will top out at 42to44mph per gps.That number is with three adults on board and 3/4 full fuel tank.The Optimax on my boat will not turn over 5100rpm max.The prop on my boat is a Mercury Mirage Plus 17P 48-18278.With the Optimax and prop combination on this boat 3000rpm to 4200 rpm is optium range to run in.
waywardsuun	posted 04-28-2006 10:42 PM ET (US) Hi, I have a 1999 outrage with a 200 optimax and a 3 blade prop. I can go 46 mph with 2 people and half a tank of gas. This is according to the GPS. Ward
bsmotril	posted 04-28-2006 10:59 PM ET (US) First of all, how are you reading the speed? The only accureate way is with a GPS. Pitot tube speedos are not very accurate unless they are the high dollar ones for torunament water skiing. If you did use a GPS, was the unit reading out in Knots, or miles per hour. 35 knots is equal to 40 mph. If the boat has been stored for a while, it is not uncommon for moisture in the tachometer to cause erroneous readings, was there still additional throttle travel on the top end? If so, the tach might be the problem and you never hit wide open throttle. Lastly, did you start out with the motor trimmed all the way down? If not, the prop is more likely to ventilate with a heavy load and it would never hook up properly meaning it would be slipping like crazy, sucking air, and the boat speed would be way down. At 5900 rpm, that boat should be running 45-47 mph with a 17" pitch prop. BillS
outrageous21	posted 05-02-2006 03:45 AM ET (US) I am using my garmin 178c gps to calculate the speed and it is in mph form. I ran the boat a few more times since then and with a half a tank of gas and two people it is running around 43 mph. Nothing really changed but the wieght and the boat increased speed by 8 mph. The prop is not spun but at idle speeds the prop seems to shake the engine alot is this normal? Thanks for all your replies I think the engine just has a mind of its own.
gf	posted 05-02-2006 11:16 AM ET (US) 43 MPH sounds pretty good for an Outrage 21 with a 200 HP engine, 1/2 tank of fuel and 2 people.