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Author Topic:   Stiletto Prop Fit
orion243 posted 05-22-2006 10:52 AM ET (US)   Profile for orion243   Send Email to orion243  
Finally got around to mounting the prop on my 2003 Johnson 90 h.p. 4-stroke/Montauk. I purchased an o.e.m prop nut kit as I was not sure of what was provided as original equipment. There was no schematic provided but the dealer explained the orietation. First thing on the spline is a plastic spacer washer and then the prop. Following the prop is a piece of steel, not sure what it is called but it keeps mono for instance out of the seal; concave side toward the prop, and finally a s.s. flat washer, castle nut and pin. There was a little slop left so I added an additional flat washer next to the original one. I hand spun the prop and everthing seemed fine.
I test ran the prop and it seemed to run well, 40 m.p.h. @ 5500 rpm, but when I pulled out I noticed the prop had run up the spline a good 3/16" and the the blades were now touching the gearcase and taking metal off it. Hand spinning at this point, I could feel some resistance.
Any thoughts?

Tom W Clark posted 05-22-2006 11:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Based on your description it sounds as if you reversed the positions of the spacer washer and the thrust washer.

The thrust washer should be a heavy piece of metal with a tapered hole that bears on the propeller shaft. Put this on FIRST, concave side forward to match the shape of the propeller shaft. The propeller follows and then the plastic spacer washer, washer, castle nut and cotter pin.

Backlash posted 05-22-2006 11:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for Backlash  Send Email to Backlash     
First thing on the spline is a plastic spacer washer and then the prop. Following the prop is a piece of steel, not sure what it is called but it keeps mono for instance out of the seal; concave side toward the prop...

I believe the FIRST thing to go on should have been the thrust washer (concave piece), with the concave side toward the shaft seal, next the prop followed by the spacer washer and nut.

orion243 posted 05-22-2006 12:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for orion243  Send Email to orion243     
The previous prop, Propulse composite, started with the plastic spacer washer then a thrust washer that I believe came with that prop, different from the one that came with the o.e.m. kit, the prop and finally a thin s.s. finger type washer, nut and pin. The dealer told me the only thing in front of the prop is the plastic spacer washer which obviously is not going to work. I assume there has to be something behind the prop that is close in O.D. to the hub I.D. to prevent mono for instance to get inside?
Tom W Clark posted 05-22-2006 12:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
I want to make sure we are using the same terminology. When you say "in front of the prop" do you mean installed on the propeller shaft first?

If that is the case, you must be misunderstanding what your dealer is telling you. [/]The thrust washer always goes on first[/b] and I have never heard of a plastic thrust washer.

orion243 posted 05-22-2006 12:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for orion243  Send Email to orion243     
Tom, yes when I say in front of the prop, it is the first item I slide down the shaft. The plastic washer is called a spacer and when I removed the previous prop it was the first item on the shaft. The previous owner ran it this way as I did for over a year with no issues. Immediately following it, still in front of the old prop was as you say a heavy steel thrust washer that appeared to mesh with the prop, notch in it. The "thrust washer" that came with the new kit is different and the dealer told me that it goes after the prop. I will try placing it in front just to see if the spacing issue is any better. It sure would have been nice to get a pictorial on this. The dealer was pissed off that I had gotten a non o.e.m. prop and was real short with answers.
ratherwhalering posted 05-22-2006 01:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Here you go.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v641/ratherwhalering/Propellers/ ?action=view¤t=Propellerdesign.jpg

Tom W Clark posted 05-22-2006 01:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Forget about your old plastic propeller. It is irrelevant at this point.

Your dealer in an idiot. The thrust washer NEVER goes on after the propeller, that would defeat its purpose.

I rather suspect that between a discussion with your dealer and an online conversion without the benefit of photos one of more of the three of us is not using all the correct terms for all the parts. Instead, let's look at the big picture.

Different propellers and different brands of motors use different combinations and shapes of washers and nuts, but they all work the same way.

The outboard spins the propeller to generate thrust to propel the boat. All the forward thrust generated by the propeller needs to be transfered to the boat via the propeller shaft. Everything that makes your boat go 40 MPH is pressing against the tapered portion of your propeller shaft. That's a lot of force and that is why the thrust washer is there.

This is also why the thrust washer is a heavy piece of machined brass or bronze and why it has a tapered (concave) hole through it. It must fit the propeller shaft very tightly and not move forward while at the same time it must be removable, hence the tapered shape.

If you insert a plastic part in there, then all the force is now compressing a relatively soft and weak piece of plastic.

The parts behind the propeller, the spacer washer, nut and pin, merely serve to hold the propeller is firm contact with the thrust washer and keep the propeller aligned with the shaft. The spacer washer also puts the castle nut in a position where it will align with the cotter pin hole in the end of the shaft.

Tom W Clark posted 05-22-2006 01:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
To expand on the image Rob has provided, let me use the terminology that BRP uses on the exploded parts diagram for the 2003 Johnson 140 Four Stroke (available on BRP's web site)

The first part on the propeller shaft they call Propeller Bushing Stop. By the looks of it it may have some line cutting feature, but that not clear.

Then comes the Propeller itself.

Then the Propeller Spacer which I believe is splined so as to not spin as the nut is tightened.

Then the Washer (18.5 x 31 x 1.0mm) which I presume is stainless steel.

Then the brass Castle Nut.

And finally the Cotter Pin, 25mm.

orion243 posted 05-22-2006 01:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for orion243  Send Email to orion243     
Rob, would the parts be the same for the 14 x 16 Stiletto P/N: 51316? I just got off the phone with Stiletto and from what I understand there is a heavy metal "washer" on each side of the prop and they are supposed to get back to me. The dealer I went through on the kit never mentioned this, figures.

Tom, thanks for your input, it does make sense. At this point, I believe Iam missing a key part in front of the prop just not sure what it looks like. Iam going to pull the assy tonight and take inventory

Thankyou all for the input.

ratherwhalering posted 05-22-2006 03:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
O.K., here is an exploded view of your lower end. Inventory the parts you have. I suspect you need #26.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v641/ratherwhalering/Propellers/ ?action=view¤t=Johnson904sGearcase.jpg

ratherwhalering posted 05-22-2006 03:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
make that #25.
ratherwhalering posted 05-22-2006 03:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
From your description, and using your terminology, this is the order.

1. First thing on the spline is a [thrust washer] piece of steel, not sure what it is called but it keeps mono for instance out of the seal; concave side toward the prop.

2. Prop.

3. A plastic spacer washer.

4. Finally a s.s. flat washer, castle nut and pin.

orion243 posted 05-22-2006 08:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for orion243  Send Email to orion243     
Rob and Tom, I think I found the problem. The previous owner had the plastic "spacer propeller stop", item 25, on first followed by the metal stop-propeller bushing, item 26. I can attest it did work in the case of the plastic prop. I removed item 26 thinking it belonged to the plastic prop. I should actually have all the parts and Iam going to re-assemble everything, per the exploded view, this evening and see how it fits. Hope all I did was shave some steel.
ratherwhalering posted 05-22-2006 09:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
I believe item 25 is the Propeller Bushing Stop that Tom correctly identifies. Item 26 is the Propeller Stop Spacer(a.k.a metal, concave, "thrush washer" identified in the first diagram.)

I don't think you removed the bushing. I believe you reversed the propeller stop spacer (thrust washer) and the propeller nut spacer (plastic washer).

BTW, this is what Tom has been saying all along...

orion243 posted 05-23-2006 10:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for orion243  Send Email to orion243     
Rob, I think I have it worked out. First on is item 26, metal stop-prop bushing and then the prop. There is not enough room on the shaft/spline for item 25, plastic spacer prop stop, either in front or in back of the prop. Next, after the prop is item 27, metal spacer prop nut followed by the s.s. flat washer, brass castle nut and cotter pin. There is now no interference between the prop and the gearcase housing and the prop spins freely.
Going back to my performance results, I raised the motor up to the second set of holes from the top, 18 gallons of fuel, 1 person. Trimmed out on flat water I hit 40mph @ 5500 rpm, (4500-5500 recommended range). Definately picked up some speed but I still need to play with cornering etc.

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