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Author Topic:   Montauk Repower--F90 or E-TEC 90

BeanCounter posted 05-31-2006 02:04 PM ET (US)
I have read quite a bit here about the best re-powering options for a Montauk but wanted some more opinions. We have a 1975 Montauk with a 1992 Evinrude 90 that we would like to replace. I am hearing more and more about people having problems with E-TEC motors (although not the 90 specifically) and I think it is starting to scare me. I am a big Yamaha fan and my current thought is that a F90 would be the way to go. The F90 is 369 pounds, the E-TEC is 320 pounds, and the existing motor is right around 300 pounds. Is the F90 too heavy? Would the extra 49 pounds be a big deal? Are E-TECs the way to go? Any help would be appreciated. I am new to this site so pardon any first time errors.
Buckda posted 05-31-2006 02:37 PM ET (US)
I've put around 300 "miles" on my two 90 HP E-TEC motors and so far have been well pleased with them.
Every instance of a problem that I've heard about (and I haven't heard much) has been followed up with a report that BRP was quick with a solution or a replacement powerhead/engine if necessary. That says a lot. Any new technology/engine release is bound to have some failures and bugs to be worked out. The fact that the company is standing proud behind their products and is fixing problems as they are discovered/reported with no hassle is a strong testament to the company's belief that these engines are a good product.
I personally don't think you would be disappointed with either of these motors on your boat...but if you really are a bean counter, I think you'll find that an E-TEC burning XD-100 oil is going to be a less expensive engine to own over the life of the motor (10 years or so), given that you allow the dealership to perform services and not perform them yourself (other than adding oil to the E-TEC).
As for superiority in my opinion....while my opinion on this matter is strong, I do not yet have enough hours on mine to add a lot of objective weight to that opinion.

I would not be worried about the E-TEC, especially the 70 or 90 HP version which has been out in the marketplace for awhile and is selling well.
Dave
limbowhale posted 05-31-2006 03:11 PM ET (US)
Just went through the same exercise and ended up going with the F90 Yamaha myself. [I am] not going to try to convince you to go either way just wanted you to know that Yamaha has a special going that will expire on June first where they are giving about $500 off. I was looking at E-TEC, Honda, Yamaha and ended up making my decision on price. I went with the Yamaha and am ordering a Mills moring cover with the money I saved.
Picking the boat up on Friday, can't wait!
ratherwhalering posted 05-31-2006 03:55 PM ET (US)
I've had my 2004 E-TEC 90 for over two years of operation, and now over 200 hours, and I really like it. A lot.
Teak Oil posted 05-31-2006 07:43 PM ET (US)
Personally I would go E-Tec, but if you are a Yamaha man then get the Yammie. It is heavier, maybe a pinch slower on top end and acceleration, and has much more maintenance than the Evinrude. However if you are a true Yamaha man some part of you will probably always wonder what the Yammie would have been like.
Then in the spring and fall while you are changing your oil and winterizing the engine, your buddies will be out using their E-TEC motors. [Laughs]
jimh posted 05-31-2006 08:42 PM ET (US)
All mechanical devices are prone to failure. If you hang around an engine repair shop you will see amazing things. If outboard motors were as reliable as many of their boosters like to claim, there would be no need for service departments, warranty claims, and spare parts. One manufacturer of "bulletproof" outboard motors even has an entire plant and facility where it rebuilds the failed engines it had to take back under warranty from its customers, then sells them again. Try to imagine that happening in the automotive business!
Price plays a very significant role in all purchase decisions. It seems to me that there is no clear "best choice" motor. There are at least six or seven options for re-powering a MONTAUK, and people buy and choose among them.
--
"...And God fulfills Himself in many ways
lest one good custom should corrupt the world."
Morte d'Authur
Alfred Lord Tennyson
http://www.bartleby.com/42/637.html
mikeyairtime posted 06-01-2006 09:28 AM ET (US)
Here on the ContinuousETEC site we recomend...
Buckda posted 06-05-2006 04:51 PM ET (US)
Mikey -
I think that's an unfair insinuation you're making in your post above.
I do believe that for classic Whalers, which were designed in an era of lighter motors, the E-TEC is a good option for people who are either internally motivated, or forced to use clean technology on their classic Boston Whaler Boat. It and the OptiMax offer two-stroke power and weight with 4-stroke EPA emissions levels (or better). That is why there is a hotbed of E-TEC interest on this site.
This particular individual is considering the difference between adding 20 lbs (an anchor) or 100 lbs (a lightweight person) in the back of his boat for eternity and hauling that weight around. He is also facing a performance penalty (accelleration) on top of the weight penalty from the 4-stroke, as well as increased rigging costs (the Evinrude controls can be translated to the new Evinrude motor).
I don't think the advice provided on this site has been very biased...the analyses you read here are very in-depth and provide good information for people looking to repower. You simply need to read it and make your own decision based on how you plan to use the boat, because there is a difference.
There are also other analyses here in the great debate: i.e. Two stroke or Four Stroke. On this topic there is copious information and commentary ad nauseum - much too much to read all at once.
There are "hidden costs" to both DFI-2Stroke technology as well as 4-stroke technology. JimH has done well to address both (maintenance, etc) here on the site.
To call it "ContinuousETEC" is misleading, in my opinion. It really is a "continuouswave" of information. it is up to the individual to digest the information that they consume here.
The newer hulls, and the larger hulls, are great with many of the 4-stroke options...but for the 17' Hull and smaller, you'll notice that a lot of the guys who've gone "4-stroke", have also chosen less HP.
Starting with the 18' Outrage, 4-stroke weight doesn't matter as much, aside from those boats that are powered by twin engines...and even on the newer, larger boats from Whaler, the twin setups can accomodate the weight of 4-strokes.
Chesapeake posted 06-08-2006 11:04 PM ET (US)
For a long time, the best motor for the back of a Montauk (in my opinion) was the Yammie 90 3 cylinder. It was light, powerful, great holeshot and very reliable 2-stroke maintenance. Now moving forward... if a person could retain all those same characteristics of the 3 cylinder Yammie, but also get the quietness and gas mileage of the newer motors, then I think that just might be the ticket.
In that light, it appears that the e-tec might best meet all those characteristics... even moreso than the F90. The only downside is the motor has not been around long enough to definitively pass the test of time. All this is coming from a highly opinionated Yammie supporter.
Not an easy decision, but great solutions.
Bob
fourdfish posted 06-08-2006 11:17 PM ET (US)
Well said Dave!
Now!
My only question to Chesapeake and others is; How long is the test of time? Some might not have that much time!
If you had a 7 year warranty, would that be enough to satisfy
your test of time?
jimh posted 06-09-2006 12:00 AM ET (US)
I am afraid CONTINUOUSWAVE has really not been a direct participant in determining what motor people spend their money on and install on their boats. People go out and spend their own money on motors, and they make their own decisions. In some cases people have reported their decisions and experiences here. You can be certain that there is completely equal access to being able to report your first-hand experiences in re-powering. There is no policy which influences selection of these reports for publication based on brand. We do like first-hand reports and credible, verifiable information. That is all.
If anyone has re-powered their Boston Whaler MONTAUK 17 with a Mercury Verado, I would be very pleased to hear all about it and provide a chance to present the information. There is nothing about the way CONTINUOUSWAVE is conducted that is preventing you from reading about such a re-powering.
VI Jamie 22 posted 06-09-2006 08:34 PM ET (US)
Come on Jim, Don't you think the guy who puts on the first 275 Verado on his montauk ought to get more than just a free Continuous Wave t-shirt, He should get the hat also!!!
jimh posted 06-09-2006 11:51 PM ET (US)
This new Mercury FourStroke motor would be a reasonable choice for a Montauk re-power. The FourStroke is a derivative of the Verado, or a baby-Verado or Veradito. If and when Mercury actually announces the motor, gets it into production, and has some available for sale as loose motors, and does not make the dealer jump through too many hurdles to qualify to sell one, I will not be surprised to hear that someone has purchased a 90-HP model and put it on a classic Boston Whaler MONTAUK 17. However, in the meantime, it can hardly be considered that some bias on CONTINUOUSWAVE is holding up that process. If no one has bought a new model of motor from Mercury to re-power their Montauk, you'd have to think perhaps that has more to do with what choices are available at the moment from Mercury than it does with some possible influence from a non-existent editorial policy here at CONTINUOUSWAVE.
And again, here we are talking about Mercury motors that aren't officially for sale or even advertised for sale yet.
There are simple reasons that no classic Boston Whaler boats have been re-powered with a Verado:
--the Verado is very heavy and does not match up well with older hulls designed for motors that weighed much less.
--the Verado needs all new rigging, controls, gauges, and even steering
--the Verado is sold by only a small minority of Mercury dealers, and at last report there were more dealers selling the very small market share Suzuki brand than were qualified to sell and install a Mercury Verado
--the Verado costs more than other choices, often as much as $3,500 or more as seen in the actual prices of pre-rigged boats with various engine choices. This may be the most influential factor.

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Author	Topic: Montauk Repower--F90 or E-TEC 90
BeanCounter	posted 05-31-2006 02:04 PM ET (US) I have read quite a bit here about the best re-powering options for a Montauk but wanted some more opinions. We have a 1975 Montauk with a 1992 Evinrude 90 that we would like to replace. I am hearing more and more about people having problems with E-TEC motors (although not the 90 specifically) and I think it is starting to scare me. I am a big Yamaha fan and my current thought is that a F90 would be the way to go. The F90 is 369 pounds, the E-TEC is 320 pounds, and the existing motor is right around 300 pounds. Is the F90 too heavy? Would the extra 49 pounds be a big deal? Are E-TECs the way to go? Any help would be appreciated. I am new to this site so pardon any first time errors.
Buckda	posted 05-31-2006 02:37 PM ET (US) I've put around 300 "miles" on my two 90 HP E-TEC motors and so far have been well pleased with them. Every instance of a problem that I've heard about (and I haven't heard much) has been followed up with a report that BRP was quick with a solution or a replacement powerhead/engine if necessary. That says a lot. Any new technology/engine release is bound to have some failures and bugs to be worked out. The fact that the company is standing proud behind their products and is fixing problems as they are discovered/reported with no hassle is a strong testament to the company's belief that these engines are a good product. I personally don't think you would be disappointed with either of these motors on your boat...but if you really are a bean counter, I think you'll find that an E-TEC burning XD-100 oil is going to be a less expensive engine to own over the life of the motor (10 years or so), given that you allow the dealership to perform services and not perform them yourself (other than adding oil to the E-TEC). As for superiority in my opinion....while my opinion on this matter is strong, I do not yet have enough hours on mine to add a lot of objective weight to that opinion. I would not be worried about the E-TEC, especially the 70 or 90 HP version which has been out in the marketplace for awhile and is selling well. Dave
limbowhale	posted 05-31-2006 03:11 PM ET (US) Just went through the same exercise and ended up going with the F90 Yamaha myself. [I am] not going to try to convince you to go either way just wanted you to know that Yamaha has a special going that will expire on June first where they are giving about $500 off. I was looking at E-TEC, Honda, Yamaha and ended up making my decision on price. I went with the Yamaha and am ordering a Mills moring cover with the money I saved. Picking the boat up on Friday, can't wait!
ratherwhalering	posted 05-31-2006 03:55 PM ET (US) I've had my 2004 E-TEC 90 for over two years of operation, and now over 200 hours, and I really like it. A lot.
Teak Oil	posted 05-31-2006 07:43 PM ET (US) Personally I would go E-Tec, but if you are a Yamaha man then get the Yammie. It is heavier, maybe a pinch slower on top end and acceleration, and has much more maintenance than the Evinrude. However if you are a true Yamaha man some part of you will probably always wonder what the Yammie would have been like. Then in the spring and fall while you are changing your oil and winterizing the engine, your buddies will be out using their E-TEC motors. [Laughs]
jimh	posted 05-31-2006 08:42 PM ET (US) All mechanical devices are prone to failure. If you hang around an engine repair shop you will see amazing things. If outboard motors were as reliable as many of their boosters like to claim, there would be no need for service departments, warranty claims, and spare parts. One manufacturer of "bulletproof" outboard motors even has an entire plant and facility where it rebuilds the failed engines it had to take back under warranty from its customers, then sells them again. Try to imagine that happening in the automotive business! Price plays a very significant role in all purchase decisions. It seems to me that there is no clear "best choice" motor. There are at least six or seven options for re-powering a MONTAUK, and people buy and choose among them. -- "...And God fulfills Himself in many ways lest one good custom should corrupt the world." Morte d'Authur Alfred Lord Tennyson http://www.bartleby.com/42/637.html
mikeyairtime	posted 06-01-2006 09:28 AM ET (US) Here on the ContinuousETEC site we recomend...
Buckda	posted 06-05-2006 04:51 PM ET (US) Mikey - I think that's an unfair insinuation you're making in your post above. I do believe that for classic Whalers, which were designed in an era of lighter motors, the E-TEC is a good option for people who are either internally motivated, or forced to use clean technology on their classic Boston Whaler Boat. It and the OptiMax offer two-stroke power and weight with 4-stroke EPA emissions levels (or better). That is why there is a hotbed of E-TEC interest on this site. This particular individual is considering the difference between adding 20 lbs (an anchor) or 100 lbs (a lightweight person) in the back of his boat for eternity and hauling that weight around. He is also facing a performance penalty (accelleration) on top of the weight penalty from the 4-stroke, as well as increased rigging costs (the Evinrude controls can be translated to the new Evinrude motor). I don't think the advice provided on this site has been very biased...the analyses you read here are very in-depth and provide good information for people looking to repower. You simply need to read it and make your own decision based on how you plan to use the boat, because there is a difference. There are also other analyses here in the great debate: i.e. Two stroke or Four Stroke. On this topic there is copious information and commentary ad nauseum - much too much to read all at once. There are "hidden costs" to both DFI-2Stroke technology as well as 4-stroke technology. JimH has done well to address both (maintenance, etc) here on the site. To call it "ContinuousETEC" is misleading, in my opinion. It really is a "continuouswave" of information. it is up to the individual to digest the information that they consume here. The newer hulls, and the larger hulls, are great with many of the 4-stroke options...but for the 17' Hull and smaller, you'll notice that a lot of the guys who've gone "4-stroke", have also chosen less HP. Starting with the 18' Outrage, 4-stroke weight doesn't matter as much, aside from those boats that are powered by twin engines...and even on the newer, larger boats from Whaler, the twin setups can accomodate the weight of 4-strokes.
Chesapeake	posted 06-08-2006 11:04 PM ET (US) For a long time, the best motor for the back of a Montauk (in my opinion) was the Yammie 90 3 cylinder. It was light, powerful, great holeshot and very reliable 2-stroke maintenance. Now moving forward... if a person could retain all those same characteristics of the 3 cylinder Yammie, but also get the quietness and gas mileage of the newer motors, then I think that just might be the ticket. In that light, it appears that the e-tec might best meet all those characteristics... even moreso than the F90. The only downside is the motor has not been around long enough to definitively pass the test of time. All this is coming from a highly opinionated Yammie supporter. Not an easy decision, but great solutions. Bob
fourdfish	posted 06-08-2006 11:17 PM ET (US) Well said Dave! Now! My only question to Chesapeake and others is; How long is the test of time? Some might not have that much time! If you had a 7 year warranty, would that be enough to satisfy your test of time?
jimh	posted 06-09-2006 12:00 AM ET (US) I am afraid CONTINUOUSWAVE has really not been a direct participant in determining what motor people spend their money on and install on their boats. People go out and spend their own money on motors, and they make their own decisions. In some cases people have reported their decisions and experiences here. You can be certain that there is completely equal access to being able to report your first-hand experiences in re-powering. There is no policy which influences selection of these reports for publication based on brand. We do like first-hand reports and credible, verifiable information. That is all. If anyone has re-powered their Boston Whaler MONTAUK 17 with a Mercury Verado, I would be very pleased to hear all about it and provide a chance to present the information. There is nothing about the way CONTINUOUSWAVE is conducted that is preventing you from reading about such a re-powering.
VI Jamie 22	posted 06-09-2006 08:34 PM ET (US) Come on Jim, Don't you think the guy who puts on the first 275 Verado on his montauk ought to get more than just a free Continuous Wave t-shirt, He should get the hat also!!!
jimh	posted 06-09-2006 11:51 PM ET (US) This new Mercury FourStroke motor would be a reasonable choice for a Montauk re-power. The FourStroke is a derivative of the Verado, or a baby-Verado or Veradito. If and when Mercury actually announces the motor, gets it into production, and has some available for sale as loose motors, and does not make the dealer jump through too many hurdles to qualify to sell one, I will not be surprised to hear that someone has purchased a 90-HP model and put it on a classic Boston Whaler MONTAUK 17. However, in the meantime, it can hardly be considered that some bias on CONTINUOUSWAVE is holding up that process. If no one has bought a new model of motor from Mercury to re-power their Montauk, you'd have to think perhaps that has more to do with what choices are available at the moment from Mercury than it does with some possible influence from a non-existent editorial policy here at CONTINUOUSWAVE. And again, here we are talking about Mercury motors that aren't officially for sale or even advertised for sale yet. There are simple reasons that no classic Boston Whaler boats have been re-powered with a Verado: --the Verado is very heavy and does not match up well with older hulls designed for motors that weighed much less. --the Verado needs all new rigging, controls, gauges, and even steering --the Verado is sold by only a small minority of Mercury dealers, and at last report there were more dealers selling the very small market share Suzuki brand than were qualified to sell and install a Mercury Verado --the Verado costs more than other choices, often as much as $3,500 or more as seen in the actual prices of pre-rigged boats with various engine choices. This may be the most influential factor.