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Author Topic:   Propulse Plastic Propeller

Kookadala posted 07-05-2006 11:53 AM ET (US)
I purchased a Propulse plastic propeller because it sounded great and there are currently no reviews on the West Marine website. I used it for the first time a few days ago and spun the hub without hitting anything. I was accelerating from about 2,600 RPM and around 4,000-RPM I heard a loud POP. Luckily the design allowed me to make it back to the harbor at about 10 knots. Anyone have any good experiences with these composite props?
I am taking it back to West Marine for exchange tomorrow since there is a three-year warranty on the hub.
PS - if I had hit something which I didn't see, I thought the design was supposed to allow a blade to break off, which is the whole idea behind the replaceable blade composite prop. I see no marks on the blades to indicate I hit anything! 1980 Outrage 21 with Evinrude 200 hp
andygere posted 07-05-2006 04:58 PM ET (US)
You are trying to move a 21-foot boat with a 200-HP motor through a plastic prop? Why would you do this? I would not ask for a replacement, I'd ask for my money back. Using one of these on your Whaler is the equivalent of running lawn mower tires on a Corvette.
Kookadala posted 07-05-2006 05:44 PM ET (US)
The Propulse composite prop is rated to over 250-HP for the model I have. The features advertised (listed below from West Marine's website) sure make it sound like the prop of the future. Not at all comparable to lawnmower tires on a Corvette. I received an exchange from west marine, but am going to try my old aluminum prop first to make sure the problem is not the transmission.
"Finally there's one propeller that's right for every situation. The unique ProPulse propeller brings a new level of versatility to your outboard or sterndrive by making it easy to adjust the pitch of your prop. In just a few minutes, you can optimize your boat's performance for whatever type of boating you have in mind (e.g. waterskiing, fishing, carrying heavy or light loads, etc.). Being able to adjust the pitch allows you to achieve faster speeds, lower fuel consumption and better overall handling. The pitch can be set in minutes with just four easy steps.
"Another feature that sets the ProPulse apart from other propellers is its replaceable blades. Carry spare blades and there's no need to bring your day of boating to an abrupt end if you run aground and bust a blade. Instead of replacing an entire propeller, you can easily replace a broken blade and save money, time and cargo space in the process.
"The ProPulse is also built to last. In the same way as today's Formula 1 cars are made of composites and carbon fiber materials to achieve maximum strength with minimum weight, ProPulse propellers are made of composites, which are stronger and 40% lighter than aluminum. Also, the blades are not affected by corrosion or pitting as traditional aluminum propellers are.
"The universal hub allows ProPulse to fit the most common brands and models of engines. ProPulse propellers have been designed with the aid of the most recent hydrodynamic research. Extensive product testing ensures superior strength and performance. Three-year hub guarantee."
Buckda posted 07-05-2006 05:56 PM ET (US)
That is what the marketing department says about their own product.
I'm not knocking this prop, I know very little about it - but I would look to more unbiased sources of information about it than those who have financial interest in the product's success.
Incidentally, while Formula 1 cars have many composite components, you will notice that it is these composite components that become shrapnel when they touch each other on the track (or when the car hits the wall).
The engine components and drive train components are made from metal, not plastic. Your propeller is an important component of your boat's drive train.
If you are concerned about damaging the engine, buy an aluminum prop with a rubber hub insert that will sacrifice itself before engine damage occurs. The aluminum prop won't be the strongest, but it also won't snap the moment you touch a sand bottom either.
Finally, Aluminum props cost about $60 to fix if you bend/dent a blade...which is not bad, considering you dont' have the hassle of a lost blade evertime you find bottom, or even if you strike the backside of a wave in a big following sea and ventilate the engine a little.
I have heard (second hand) about someone with the ProPulse who lost two of three blades when the boat became airborne, the prop ventilated and when it hit the water surface, the stress stripped the blades right off.
As Andy mentioned, you're trying to move a 3,000 lb boat/motor/gear combination with a piece of plastic. That's asking a lot at anything above idle speed.
My personal opinion would be to save the prop as a lightweight spare you can keep in the console in case you destroy an aluminum prop...and then go to Michigan Wheel or some other supplier and get a good aluminum prop with the exchangeable, rubber inset hub.
andygere posted 07-05-2006 07:15 PM ET (US)
Jed,
I didn't mean to offend with my lawnmower tire comment, but if you want good performance from your boat, put a good quality stainless steel prop on it. Miracle composites notwithstanding, the forces on the blade of your prop are tremendous, and there is no way that a plastic blade will be as stiff as a stainless steel one. Flexing blades eat energy and thus will cost you in performance. This is why stainless steel props always outperform aluminum props of the same dimensions. The propeller has more impact on your boat's overall performance than any other part, and it's the one place where spending a bit more will yield worthwhile results.
These plastic props may be OK for small skiffs and inflatables, but I would not consider using one on a 21 foot Whaler. The thing blew up on you the first time you used it. Does that give you confidence 10, 20 or 30 miles from port?
Again, no offence intended, but I think you will be much happier with a good stainless prop.
Sal DiMercurio posted 07-05-2006 08:05 PM ET (US)
Are you sure that prop is rated to 250-HP and not 250-cc? Do you have any idea at all of how much torque is put on those blades from a 200-HP engine? Plastic props may be the prop of the future but they are far from perfecting them. They have one hell of a good promotional and advertizing dept. Don't be fooled by the pep talk on plastic props, get a stainless steel Stiletto in a 14.25 x 17 and compare the plastic one to it. Not even in the same ball park, kinda like the 8th grade playing the 12th graders, they can't even begin to compete.
Sal
Kookadala posted 07-06-2006 11:57 AM ET (US)
No offense taken, It just seems surprising to me that the marketing dept can make such incredible claims about their product and not have some truth to them. The product would totally fail to sell and be removed from the product line if they couldnt live up to the claims they make. Anyway, I am new to the whole boating thing, although I have ridden on other peoples boats for most of my life, this is the first time I have owned one. Now I see why I never made the leap before as there is so much to consider when you own the boat as opposed to merely going for a ride on someone elses and then giving them some gas money.
I have 2 props (aluminum) that came with the boat, one in pretty good shape, the other pretty chewed up. I am going to run with the 14.5 x 19 this weekend to see how it handles. Thanks for all the input!
Dyno Don posted 08-19-2010 09:33 AM ET (US)
Well I do not know why you folks are having all the problems. I have a Formula 252 with twin 3.5L 350 Chevy's modified to 300 HP Each. I have had no failures in over 100 hours of use. Also I find the adjustability fantastic I am running them at 21 pitch, I find the do not wash out on high speed turns like other props. You will not find a bad word about them here. I even keep a spare one for just in case. On Lake Michigan you never know what you might hit. So I dont know what your problem is, but you need to find out !
Buckda posted 08-20-2010 11:00 AM ET (US)
Don -
Thanks for coming to the party. Unfortunately, the party started and ended FOUR YEARS AGO.
Between then and now, I've still not seen any evidence that a composite propeller performs as well as a stainless steel propeller.
I also don't think that changing the pitch on a plastic prop is any easier than quickly swapping out Stainless props.
However, in between then and now, I've changed my opinion on aluminum props. They are a step up from composite, but not very much. I would no longer recommend them other than to pry a plastic believer into the world of metal props (move them an inch, then move them the rest of the way once they see the improvement).
Finally, in decades of boating Lake Michigan, I've still not hit anything (or found bottom) in the lake. I have found bottom and hit obstructions on various other lakes and in some of the rivers feeding into Lake Michigan. What have you been hitting on Lake Michigan and how did your composite propellers handle the impact?
Tohsgib posted 08-20-2010 12:05 PM ET (US)
Great spares but they still retain the name Comcrap. I will guarantee that Dyno Don would fetch better numbers with a good set of SS. The reason they don't slip is because they bend when you turn. I don't see team Formula running comcraps on their boats. I bet the service dept would laugh their butts off if they saw that setup. With 600hp and 1.5:1 ratio drives you should be running more than 21" props unless you are only running low 50's. PS a 350 Chevy is a 5.7L, not 3.5.

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Author	Topic: Propulse Plastic Propeller
Kookadala	posted 07-05-2006 11:53 AM ET (US) I purchased a Propulse plastic propeller because it sounded great and there are currently no reviews on the West Marine website. I used it for the first time a few days ago and spun the hub without hitting anything. I was accelerating from about 2,600 RPM and around 4,000-RPM I heard a loud POP. Luckily the design allowed me to make it back to the harbor at about 10 knots. Anyone have any good experiences with these composite props? I am taking it back to West Marine for exchange tomorrow since there is a three-year warranty on the hub. PS - if I had hit something which I didn't see, I thought the design was supposed to allow a blade to break off, which is the whole idea behind the replaceable blade composite prop. I see no marks on the blades to indicate I hit anything! 1980 Outrage 21 with Evinrude 200 hp
andygere	posted 07-05-2006 04:58 PM ET (US) You are trying to move a 21-foot boat with a 200-HP motor through a plastic prop? Why would you do this? I would not ask for a replacement, I'd ask for my money back. Using one of these on your Whaler is the equivalent of running lawn mower tires on a Corvette.
Kookadala	posted 07-05-2006 05:44 PM ET (US) The Propulse composite prop is rated to over 250-HP for the model I have. The features advertised (listed below from West Marine's website) sure make it sound like the prop of the future. Not at all comparable to lawnmower tires on a Corvette. I received an exchange from west marine, but am going to try my old aluminum prop first to make sure the problem is not the transmission. "Finally there's one propeller that's right for every situation. The unique ProPulse propeller brings a new level of versatility to your outboard or sterndrive by making it easy to adjust the pitch of your prop. In just a few minutes, you can optimize your boat's performance for whatever type of boating you have in mind (e.g. waterskiing, fishing, carrying heavy or light loads, etc.). Being able to adjust the pitch allows you to achieve faster speeds, lower fuel consumption and better overall handling. The pitch can be set in minutes with just four easy steps. "Another feature that sets the ProPulse apart from other propellers is its replaceable blades. Carry spare blades and there's no need to bring your day of boating to an abrupt end if you run aground and bust a blade. Instead of replacing an entire propeller, you can easily replace a broken blade and save money, time and cargo space in the process. "The ProPulse is also built to last. In the same way as today's Formula 1 cars are made of composites and carbon fiber materials to achieve maximum strength with minimum weight, ProPulse propellers are made of composites, which are stronger and 40% lighter than aluminum. Also, the blades are not affected by corrosion or pitting as traditional aluminum propellers are. "The universal hub allows ProPulse to fit the most common brands and models of engines. ProPulse propellers have been designed with the aid of the most recent hydrodynamic research. Extensive product testing ensures superior strength and performance. Three-year hub guarantee."
Buckda	posted 07-05-2006 05:56 PM ET (US) That is what the marketing department says about their own product. I'm not knocking this prop, I know very little about it - but I would look to more unbiased sources of information about it than those who have financial interest in the product's success. Incidentally, while Formula 1 cars have many composite components, you will notice that it is these composite components that become shrapnel when they touch each other on the track (or when the car hits the wall). The engine components and drive train components are made from metal, not plastic. Your propeller is an important component of your boat's drive train. If you are concerned about damaging the engine, buy an aluminum prop with a rubber hub insert that will sacrifice itself before engine damage occurs. The aluminum prop won't be the strongest, but it also won't snap the moment you touch a sand bottom either. Finally, Aluminum props cost about $60 to fix if you bend/dent a blade...which is not bad, considering you dont' have the hassle of a lost blade evertime you find bottom, or even if you strike the backside of a wave in a big following sea and ventilate the engine a little. I have heard (second hand) about someone with the ProPulse who lost two of three blades when the boat became airborne, the prop ventilated and when it hit the water surface, the stress stripped the blades right off. As Andy mentioned, you're trying to move a 3,000 lb boat/motor/gear combination with a piece of plastic. That's asking a lot at anything above idle speed. My personal opinion would be to save the prop as a lightweight spare you can keep in the console in case you destroy an aluminum prop...and then go to Michigan Wheel or some other supplier and get a good aluminum prop with the exchangeable, rubber inset hub.
andygere	posted 07-05-2006 07:15 PM ET (US) Jed, I didn't mean to offend with my lawnmower tire comment, but if you want good performance from your boat, put a good quality stainless steel prop on it. Miracle composites notwithstanding, the forces on the blade of your prop are tremendous, and there is no way that a plastic blade will be as stiff as a stainless steel one. Flexing blades eat energy and thus will cost you in performance. This is why stainless steel props always outperform aluminum props of the same dimensions. The propeller has more impact on your boat's overall performance than any other part, and it's the one place where spending a bit more will yield worthwhile results. These plastic props may be OK for small skiffs and inflatables, but I would not consider using one on a 21 foot Whaler. The thing blew up on you the first time you used it. Does that give you confidence 10, 20 or 30 miles from port? Again, no offence intended, but I think you will be much happier with a good stainless prop.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 07-05-2006 08:05 PM ET (US) Are you sure that prop is rated to 250-HP and not 250-cc? Do you have any idea at all of how much torque is put on those blades from a 200-HP engine? Plastic props may be the prop of the future but they are far from perfecting them. They have one hell of a good promotional and advertizing dept. Don't be fooled by the pep talk on plastic props, get a stainless steel Stiletto in a 14.25 x 17 and compare the plastic one to it. Not even in the same ball park, kinda like the 8th grade playing the 12th graders, they can't even begin to compete. Sal
Kookadala	posted 07-06-2006 11:57 AM ET (US) No offense taken, It just seems surprising to me that the marketing dept can make such incredible claims about their product and not have some truth to them. The product would totally fail to sell and be removed from the product line if they couldnt live up to the claims they make. Anyway, I am new to the whole boating thing, although I have ridden on other peoples boats for most of my life, this is the first time I have owned one. Now I see why I never made the leap before as there is so much to consider when you own the boat as opposed to merely going for a ride on someone elses and then giving them some gas money. I have 2 props (aluminum) that came with the boat, one in pretty good shape, the other pretty chewed up. I am going to run with the 14.5 x 19 this weekend to see how it handles. Thanks for all the input!
Dyno Don	posted 08-19-2010 09:33 AM ET (US) Well I do not know why you folks are having all the problems. I have a Formula 252 with twin 3.5L 350 Chevy's modified to 300 HP Each. I have had no failures in over 100 hours of use. Also I find the adjustability fantastic I am running them at 21 pitch, I find the do not wash out on high speed turns like other props. You will not find a bad word about them here. I even keep a spare one for just in case. On Lake Michigan you never know what you might hit. So I dont know what your problem is, but you need to find out !
Buckda	posted 08-20-2010 11:00 AM ET (US) Don - Thanks for coming to the party. Unfortunately, the party started and ended FOUR YEARS AGO. Between then and now, I've still not seen any evidence that a composite propeller performs as well as a stainless steel propeller. I also don't think that changing the pitch on a plastic prop is any easier than quickly swapping out Stainless props. However, in between then and now, I've changed my opinion on aluminum props. They are a step up from composite, but not very much. I would no longer recommend them other than to pry a plastic believer into the world of metal props (move them an inch, then move them the rest of the way once they see the improvement). Finally, in decades of boating Lake Michigan, I've still not hit anything (or found bottom) in the lake. I have found bottom and hit obstructions on various other lakes and in some of the rivers feeding into Lake Michigan. What have you been hitting on Lake Michigan and how did your composite propellers handle the impact?
Tohsgib	posted 08-20-2010 12:05 PM ET (US) Great spares but they still retain the name Comcrap. I will guarantee that Dyno Don would fetch better numbers with a good set of SS. The reason they don't slip is because they bend when you turn. I don't see team Formula running comcraps on their boats. I bet the service dept would laugh their butts off if they saw that setup. With 600hp and 1.5:1 ratio drives you should be running more than 21" props unless you are only running low 50's. PS a 350 Chevy is a 5.7L, not 3.5.